MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Willy Wonka]

Maniac, I hope Scott is back. I am not sure he is. All thru his slump it seemed he was just missing. His shots seemed to be just a bit short, right on target. Against Bethel, although he hit a couple he still didn't look real comfortable. His misses were real bad. Not even close. It looks like he is trying to get it and just shoot it. Doesn't want to think about it too much. I feel kind of bad for him. He turns down a lot of shots he usually wouldn't.

It looks like Fritz has gotten into Halverson's head big time. Usually it is a senior that he screws with, but this time it appears it is Anders. I don't know what goes on in practice but it just seems he could be a big help down the stretch.

No team in the MIAC is going to make a run in the tournament this year.

Brady Ervin is the best 2 sport star in the MIAC.

Out.

Funny that you'd mention this now. I actually heard this same complaint about Fritz for the first time last week from a former league MVP who played for the Tommies years ago. I was more than a little surprised.

I'm not sure how much merit I'd give these claims right now, but it will be interesting to see if Nicolai goes through something similar next year...especially if he happens to win the MVP this year.

Until you mentioned it, I hadn't even considered Nicolai for MVP.  They wouldn't, would they? Lets hope not. Good player, but not MVP caliber.   

Would they? You tell me. The numbers are eerily similar.

2008-09 Joe Scott
Tommies 20-0 record
13.0 PPG
3.1 RPG
1.8 APG
1.5 SPG
52% shooter, 44% from deep

2009-10 Tyler Nicolai
Tommies 19-1 record (projected)
14.2 PPG
2.2 RPG
2.3 APG
1.9 SPG
48% shooter, 39% from deep

[Chocolate Factory]

Drake, I don't know if he tried messing with anyone last year. I do feel that when he does pick out his subject he does it because he feels that player is capable of great things. Some kids can handle this better than others.

If the kid accepts the challenge in the first week of practice, we as fans won't notice anything. If the kid goes into a shell, scared to make mistakes, you will notice. I have noticed.

After all, I am A GREAT BASKETBALL MIND!

[bballfan247365]

I like your thoughts on Ray, but come on, "a mentor's hand up"? I don't mind the philosophies that Whitmore uses on the court, but he has shown that he is far from a mentor/role model to these kids. In the last 2 years under Whitmore, it looks like 16  at HU (many of whom played significant minutes the season before they left). That doesn't indicate to me that he has the trust or allegiance of the players (and visa-versa). The retention rate of the freshman at HU over the last two years has been 27% (3/11)--hopefully this years group will boost that significantly as they are by far the most promising class they have had in a while.

Whether or not Whitmore and his staff are "mentoring" Brown is yet to be determined. Let's see how much they are involved in his progress if he doesn't get this pending year of eligibility back.


Rules are in place to protect the players, the universities, the teams, and maybe most importantly the integrity of the game.

As far as your comments on Whitmore being a mentor or coach that cares about his players, I would tend to agree with your take on the situation. I obviously didn't play for him so I can't speak from experience, but I did have a cousin on the team that felt probably more like the 16 underclassmen that left the program because of how Whitmore coached and treated his players.


HU - I will pass your note on to Coach Smith and Coach Cal that maybe they should spend more time mentoring their players as well since they have experienced some turn over as well...

I am glad to see the Hamline staff is keeping good company with players leaving these programs with eligibility left...

Minnesota (07-08 to 09-10):
Royce White
Travis Busch
Kevin Payton
Brandon Smith
Bryce Webser
Limar Wilson

Kentucky (08-09 to 09-10)
Adam Delph
Kevin Galloway
Mark Halsell
Dwight Perry
Matt Pilgrim
Michael Porter
Matt Scherbenske
Landon Slone
AJ Stewart
Donald Williams

I also think it funny that nobody address the number of kids that quit the programs from St. Johns, St. Thomas and the others...  I believe the reason people can't talk about it is because all these "underclassmen that have quit/left the program" are hidden down at the JV level - many never even get listed on the varsity roster.

I have mentored many and regardless of conversations you can't make decisions for the players - it's called "Free Will".

1) Anybody who has read the NCAA handbook will chuckle at any notion "that Rules are in place to protect the players, the universities, the teams, and maybe most importantly the integrity of the game".

2) "Left the program because of how Whitmore coached and treated his players.
HIS PLAYERS - Means he recruited them.  Do the math - how many years has he been here and how many seasons has he had to spend the FULL senior year recruiting these kids.

Look at the Coach Cal turn over in ONE YEAR...  He MADE sure he had HIS guys...  Even if he stole them from Memphis..  (Ooops - My BAD; there are rules in place so he did not steal them....)

Please compare apples to apples...

[huhoops]

I like your thoughts on Ray, but come on, "a mentor's hand up"? I don't mind the philosophies that Whitmore uses on the court, but he has shown that he is far from a mentor/role model to these kids. In the last 2 years under Whitmore, it looks like 16  at HU (many of whom played significant minutes the season before they left). That doesn't indicate to me that he has the trust or allegiance of the players (and visa-versa). The retention rate of the freshman at HU over the last two years has been 27% (3/11)--hopefully this years group will boost that significantly as they are by far the most promising class they have had in a while.

Whether or not Whitmore and his staff are "mentoring" Brown is yet to be determined. Let's see how much they are involved in his progress if he doesn't get this pending year of eligibility back.


Rules are in place to protect the players, the universities, the teams, and maybe most importantly the integrity of the game.

As far as your comments on Whitmore being a mentor or coach that cares about his players, I would tend to agree with your take on the situation. I obviously didn't play for him so I can't speak from experience, but I did have a cousin on the team that felt probably more like the 16 underclassmen that left the program because of how Whitmore coached and treated his players.


HU - I will pass your note on to Coach Smith and Coach Cal that maybe they should spend more time mentoring their players as well since they have experienced some turn over as well...

I am glad to see the Hamline staff is keeping good company with players leaving these programs with eligibility left...

Minnesota (07-08 to 09-10):
Royce White
Travis Busch
Kevin Payton
Brandon Smith
Bryce Webser
Limar Wilson

Kentucky (08-09 to 09-10)
Adam Delph
Kevin Galloway
Mark Halsell
Dwight Perry
Matt Pilgrim
Michael Porter
Matt Scherbenske
Landon Slone
AJ Stewart
Donald Williams

I also think it funny that nobody address the number of kids that quit the programs from St. Johns, St. Thomas and the others...  I believe the reason people can't talk about it is because all these "underclassmen that have quit/left the program" are hidden down at the JV level - many never even get listed on the varsity roster.

I have mentored many and regardless of conversations you can't make decisions for the players - it's called "Free Will".

1) Anybody who has read the NCAA handbook will chuckle at any notion "that Rules are in place to protect the players, the universities, the teams, and maybe most importantly the integrity of the game".

2) "Left the program because of how Whitmore coached and treated his players.
HIS PLAYERS - Means he recruited them.  Do the math - how many years has he been here and how many seasons has he had to spend the FULL senior year recruiting these kids.

Look at the Coach Cal turn over in ONE YEAR...  He MADE sure he had HIS guys...  Even if he stole them from Memphis..  (Ooops - My BAD; there are rules in place so he did not steal them....)

Please compare apples to apples...

Kids don't quit those programs (SJU/UST). They either get cut or realize that they will never be able to play on varsity. That's why I noted that the majority of the underclassmen leaving HU played significant minutes the year before their departure.-- Barnhill (19mpg), Van Ordstrand (21 mpg), Clute (16 mpg).

Players at SJU and UST aren't turning down opportunities to play on the varsity team. Their services are not being asked of the coaches and many times they are let go. Those programs have JV teams which give kids the opportunity to get game minutes and develop their skills. HU does not have this option. Every season UST has players making impacts on their varsity team who played JV in their early years (McCoy, Tuma, Viau).

UST/SJU and HU is not an apples to apples comparison. These programs (as well as Gustavus) have become staples of the MIAC and have developed systems proven to work over an extended period of time (50 years). Don't get me wrong, I love HU's team this year, but it's one year. A year that happens to include possibly the highest impact transfer in all of D3 basketball. I mean come on, it was blind luck that Brown was showing up at HU open gyms and approached the staff about playing there.

Interesting how you defend Whitmore (apple A) by comparing him to Calipari (apple B), when Calipari has been sited as one of the biggest slime balls in all of college hoops. Calipari MADE sure he got HIS "one and done" guys. So HE will have to go find all new guys who are "HIS". I guess that's a comparison right there. Both coaches can go out and get guys who stay one year then go to the NBA  

Busch and Payton's scholarships were not extended to them for the 2009-2010 season. White was asked to leave the team. Brandon Smith was told that his services would no longer be needed because he didn't fit what Tubby wanted. As far as I know, the HU staff has not asked any of these players to leave their program. That's more of an apple to prune comparison.

[Drake Palmer]

Dang HU, you don't need any help from me.  But since I spent the last 5-10 minutes writing the post, I'll go ahead & get flagged for piling on.  

...HU - I will pass your note on to Coach Smith and Coach Cal that maybe they should spend more time mentoring their players as well since they have experienced some turn over as well...

I am glad to see the Hamline staff is keeping good company with players leaving these programs with eligibility left...


I also think it funny that nobody address the number of kids that quit the programs from St. Johns, St. Thomas and the others...  I believe the reason people can't talk about it is because all these "underclassmen that have quit/left the program" are hidden down at the JV level - many never even get listed on the varsity roster.
I have mentored many and regardless of conversations you can't make decisions for the players - it's called "Free Will".

1) Anybody who has read the NCAA handbook will chuckle at any notion "that Rules are in place to protect the players, the universities, the teams, and maybe most importantly the integrity of the game".

2) "Left the program because of how Whitmore coached and treated his players.
HIS PLAYERS - Means he recruited them.  Do the math - how many years has he been here and how many seasons has he had to spend the FULL senior year recruiting these kids.

Look at the Coach Cal turn over in ONE YEAR...  He MADE sure he had HIS guys...  Even if he stole them from Memphis..  (Ooops - My BAD; there are rules in place so he did not steal them....)

Please compare apples to apples...

Apples to apples? Yes, please, lets keep John Calipari, & others (Sean Sutton, Bob Huggins etc.) of his ilk out of this D3 conversation.

I don't have time to discuss the merits of Hamline's "mentoring program"   today but all one really has to do is take a look at the numbers. As I mnetioned in my earlier post, there's going to be fallout & attrition with any program & especially with a new coach & program. However...HU was talking about kids who were not playing JV or sitting on the bench, but kids getting clock on the varsity level. A key distinction.

And if you've coached, you know it's a long way from the JV squad to making meaningful contributions at the varsity level.  And it's tougher to do so at the college level than it is in high school.   But it does happen. Here are several recent examples:

Neal Anderson, Al McCoy, Brett Tuma, BJ Viau, & Josh Peltier at UST; Nermin Hujdurovic & Sam Blank at SJU; Daniel Baah at Bethel.
****

WW – I can see why Nicolai might get consideration, but after last year's controversy, I would think the coaches would want to avoid creating the same firestorm.  Although Scott had an excellent season last year, I was not in favor of his POY award & felt that Zach Johnson or Tim Madson were stronger candidates.

[bballfan247365]

HU -

Personally - I Don't care about the admiral or am I trying to defend him.  

My point was - that there is tons of turn over in any college basketball program.  

Instead of putting the turn-over rates in a paragraph that involves only Hamline - take all the MIAC rosters compare them and look at turn-over rate from from top to bottom.  I picked only those two programs because I know the coaches from both programs.  

However - I still don't see why everybody gets to pile on the out of town coaches and leave the rest alone.  

Is it because the rest of the MIAC fits into the "one of us" category and they get a free pass.  I Suppose it was blind luck with John Nance, Joe Scott, Noah Kaiser, Ike Roosenfelt, and Mike Keating.....  And NOBODY says anything...

But now look at the talk about Ray Brown and Hamline...  

Just for those that are not aware - With the need for exposure and the mind set of college presidents, today's college athletics (especially football and basketball) live in the GREY area at EVERY LEVEL...  

Especially the people we call "one of us" - but how dare anyone challenge them and the ivory tower known as the MIAC.

[Willy Wonka]

HU -

Personally - I Don't care about the admiral or am I trying to defend him.  

My point was - that there is tons of turn over in any college basketball program.  

Instead of putting the turn-over rates in a paragraph that involves only Hamline - take all the MIAC rosters compare them and look at turn-over rate from from top to bottom.  I picked only those two programs because I know the coaches from both programs.  

However - I still don't see why everybody gets to pile on the out of town coaches and leave the rest alone.  

Is it because the rest of the MIAC fits into the "one of us" category and they get a free pass.  I Suppose it was blind luck with John Nance, Joe Scott, Noah Kaiser, Ike Roosenfelt, and Mike Keating.....  And NOBODY says anything...

But now look at the talk about Ray Brown and Hamline...  

Just for those that are not aware - With the need for exposure and the mind set of college presidents, today's college athletics (especially football and basketball) live in the GREY area at EVERY LEVEL...  

Especially the people we call "one of us" - but how dare anyone challenge them and the ivory tower known as the MIAC.

To my knowledge, none of the UST players you mentioned above came with the, uh, baggage that Ray Ray seems to have. And none sought a controversial extra year of eligibility. Those seem like significant points you're a little too willing to overlook IMO.

Besides, you've confusing the issue a little bit. Most programs get transfers in from time to time, but Hamline has LOST significant contributors at an alarming rate since The Admiral arrived. Losing a starter or top bench players has been pretty rare across the rest of the league, I think.

[Drake Palmer]

HU -

Personally - I Don't care about the admiral or am I trying to defend him.  

My point was - that there is tons of turn over in any college basketball program.  

Instead of putting the turn-over rates in a paragraph that involves only Hamline - take all the MIAC rosters compare them and look at turn-over rate from from top to bottom.  I picked only those two programs because I know the coaches from both programs.  

However - I still don't see why everybody gets to pile on the out of town coaches and leave the rest alone.  

Is it because the rest of the MIAC fits into the "one of us" category and they get a free pass.  I Suppose it was blind luck with John Nance, Joe Scott, Noah Kaiser, Ike Roosenfelt, and Mike Keating.....  And NOBODY says anything...

24/7 - stick around. There have been plenty of us on the board who have skewered the powers that be & some of those transfers. In particular, a certain candy dealer.    

And if you'd notice, right now, no one seems to be slamming Coach Griess at Augsburg.  He's received his share of transfers, Nate Alm, Femi Solaja, Marcus Brumm, Jimmy Johnson, Zach Eastman, etc.  It's perception & how the players, families, students & others view the program. From all appearances & what I've been told, Coach Griess seems to have Augsburg moving in the right direction.

[huhoops]

HU -

Personally - I Don't care about the admiral or am I trying to defend him.  

My point was - that there is tons of turn over in any college basketball program.  

Instead of putting the turn-over rates in a paragraph that involves only Hamline - take all the MIAC rosters compare them and look at turn-over rate from from top to bottom.  I picked only those two programs because I know the coaches from both programs.  

However - I still don't see why everybody gets to pile on the out of town coaches and leave the rest alone.  

Is it because the rest of the MIAC fits into the "one of us" category and they get a free pass.  I Suppose it was blind luck with John Nance, Joe Scott, Noah Kaiser, Ike Roosenfelt, and Mike Keating.....  And NOBODY says anything...

But now look at the talk about Ray Brown and Hamline...  

Just for those that are not aware - With the need for exposure and the mind set of college presidents, today's college athletics (especially football and basketball) live in the GREY area at EVERY LEVEL...  

Especially the people we call "one of us" - but how dare anyone challenge them and the ivory tower known as the MIAC.

It's not the turn around that separates HU, it's the turn around of significant players in their rotation.

About the transfers you referred to at UST...From my understanding, the kids sought out UST as a school they would want to attend for multiple reasons. UST is in the cities (all of those transfers are city kids- CDH, DLS, Henry Sibley, St. Paul Central/St. Thomas Academy), it is on a nice side of town (AUG and HU may appear to be "grungy" areas of town), the program is tops in the conference every year, oh, and the girls aren't too hard on the eyes   If I'm a premier player and want to come home, I'm going to UST too. (Should note that BU and SJU have some of the same characteristics, which might explain they get the occasional stud transfer.

Ray just happened to be at an open gym with some high school buddies and told the staff he wants to play again. Not taking credit away from the HU staff for getting it done because I'm sure it was a boat load of work, but just saying, I think luck was the major variable in that equation.

The notion that HU (or non UST/SJU/GAC schools) is being black balled due to tradition just sounds like a cop out. HU has gotten some nice talent in their program over the last two years but hasn't been able to hold on to/develop it. As I said, if there is a time to start a new trend, this is the year. The quality of this year's freshman class shows promise as a group who can be the building blocks of a successful program in years to come.

[faunch]

Johnnies playing well against the Toms...Mike Spannier and his crew are a joke!

[bballfan247365]

Drake - HU..

I know that you GET it and I appreciate the conversation.

If you have not figured by now, I am a realist - and know EVERYTHING IS NOT AS IT SEEMS.

I get bothered by those that try to put blame on things that have none - especially in the world of basketball.  I believe personality has a lot of influence on perception as well.

Griess' midwest laid back personality keeps him of the board - but the Admirals "New York state of mind" keeps him on the board.

Here is an example:

Coach Cal, Sutton and Hugs who were mentioned earlier - are percieved as a couple of slimy ones BUT If you talk to those who REALLY know the true behind the scenes (not just from the books) you would know that....

The most famous and respected coach of all - John Wooden, had a player payroll that revivaled any NBA team of that day.  

THE beloved Coach K - hires coaches and support staff ONLY from with in the Duke program for a reason (and its not only for the knowledge of the tradition)  

And while the Clem Haskins scandle rocked the Minnesota ivory tower, those that KNOW realize papers and easy classes happen all the time in this world million dollar pay days and in that line of thinking - it was nothing compared to what coaches like Dave Bliss did.  

Now all those that are going to cast the first stone, I am not saying it is right - I am just saying it AS IT IS and if Westy, Nellie, Guy, Koz, Fritz, or even Tubby and Bo can do something that does not break the rules to gain an advantage - they will.

If you don't look at college basketball as a business (and yes the MIAC)- then you will ALWAYS be offended and misguided.

and HU - why do you think Johnny Tauer does those SUMMER recruting visits around the quad and the chapel...  (Hell - anyone who has driven down Cleveland Avenue on a 85 and sunny day knows what the hell I am talking about..)  

A friend of mind has always said (while making a triangle jesture with his hands) the only undefeated team in the history of competition...  

I will leave you with that thought as many of you are shelling out dinner, roses and other stuff - just to get some tonight...

Happy Valentines Day.

[Gregory Sager]

Coach Cal, Sutton and Hugs who were mentioned earlier - are percieved as a couple of slimy ones BUT If you talk to those who REALLY know the true behind the scenes (not just from the books) you would know that....

The most famous and respected coach of all - John Wooden, had a player payroll that revivaled any NBA team of that day.  

THE beloved Coach K - hires coaches and support staff ONLY from with in the Duke program for a reason (and its not only for the knowledge of the tradition)  

And while the Clem Haskins scandle rocked the Minnesota ivory tower, those that KNOW realize papers and easy classes happen all the time in this world million dollar pay days and in that line of thinking - it was nothing compared to what coaches like Dave Bliss did.  

Now all those that are going to cast the first stone, I am not saying it is right - I am just saying it AS IT IS and if Westy, Nellie, Guy, Koz, Fritz, or even Tubby and Bo can do something that does not break the rules to gain an advantage - they will.

247:

You would do well to heed Drake's advice:

Apples to apples? Yes, please, lets keep John Calipari, & others (Sean Sutton, Bob Huggins etc.) of his ilk out of this D3 conversation.

The MIAC is not a D1 league. It's a D3 league. Division III basketball is a different world than Division I. Here's a few reasons why:

*  D3 is different in terms of roster turnover, because players aren't tethered to the team via scholarships. Their responsibilities to their team, their teammates, and their coaches are entirely self-imposed and may be broken without financial penalty. That's a massive difference between D3 and D1, and it makes any comparisons of roster turnovers between Hamline and, say, Minnesota or Kentucky irrelevant.

* D3 is different in terms of pressure, both external and internal. That's not to say that D3 coaches aren't under pressure to win, or that D3 players don't feel pressure to perform well on the court. They most certainly do. But D3 men's basketball is not a cash cow. D1 men's basketball is, and because of that it's vital that the head coach keep the gears of the money machine spinning by piling up wins and making post-season appearances. That introduces a vastly different dynamic in D1 that all-too-often spills over into ethics. Of course, D3 has its fair share of ethically-challenged coaches and players as well. But the ethical violations, both the publicized kind and the rumored sub rosa kind, aren't nearly as widespread or as monumental in terms of the dollars and individuals involved as they are in D1.

* D3 players are different than D1 players. They come to school for different reasons, and their basketball playing takes place in a different context than in D1. Very few D3 players operate under the delusion preconception that this is a minor-league stopover, a way station on their path to a professional basketball career. Is Ray Brown one of those very few? Dunno. But the Reusse article seems to at least hint at the fact that the guy is getting his life together, and playing a year of D3 ball in the hopes of using it to springboard into a professional basketball contract does not meet the definition of getting one's life together. At any rate, whatever his motivation, Ray Brown is a rare bird among D3 players. Almost all of them participate in college basketball under no illusions whatsoever that it will lead anywhere. To trot out the old but true cliche, they play for the love of the game. Everything about the D3 player -- and the D3 coach who mentors/teaches/guides/screws with/leads him -- has to be viewed within that context. D1 players and coaches and their motivations? Another story altogether.

I could go on and on. But the bottom line is this: D1 and D3 are not "apples to apples." In fact, they're not even all that closely related; they're probably more like apples and artichokes.

This is a D3 discussion room on a D3 website. You really aren't going to get far around here if you keep on dragging D1 players and coaches into the discussion to prove your points.

[Willy Wonka]

Point? Are we sure he has a point?...

Today's scores

Carleton 68, Augsburg 60 in OT
• No details that I can find...

GAC 86, Bethel 52
• There's that Royal defense I know and Love!

UST 67, SJU 62
• The Johnnies shoot 59% and still lose? Ummm...yikes.

Cobbers 74, SMU 66
• Fraase with 25 and 14.

Olaf 68, Mac 64
• Apparently, Fong didn't start after going for 34 and 11 against the Gusties. He finished with 18 and 8...and a technical. Does anyone know what Koz might be doing? 

[AO]

The MIAC is not a D1 league. It's a D3 league. Division III basketball is a different world than Division I. Here's a few reasons why:

*  D3 is different in terms of roster turnover, because players aren't tethered to the team via scholarships. Their responsibilities to their team, their teammates, and their coaches are entirely self-imposed and may be broken without financial penalty. That's a massive difference between D3 and D1, and it makes any comparisons of roster turnovers between Hamline and, say, Minnesota or Kentucky irrelevant.

* D3 is different in terms of pressure, both external and internal. That's not to say that D3 coaches aren't under pressure to win, or that D3 players don't feel pressure to perform well on the court. They most certainly do. But D3 men's basketball is not a cash cow. D1 men's basketball is, and because of that it's vital that the head coach keep the gears of the money machine spinning by piling up wins and making post-season appearances. That introduces a vastly different dynamic in D1 that all-too-often spills over into ethics. Of course, D3 has its fair share of ethically-challenged coaches and players as well. But the ethical violations, both the publicized kind and the rumored sub rosa kind, aren't nearly as widespread or as monumental in terms of the dollars and individuals involved as they are in D1.

* D3 players are different than D1 players. They come to school for different reasons, and their basketball playing takes place in a different context than in D1. Very few D3 players operate under the delusion preconception that this is a minor-league stopover, a way station on their path to a professional basketball career. Is Ray Brown one of those very few? Dunno. But the Reusse article seems to at least hint at the fact that the guy is getting his life together, and playing a year of D3 ball in the hopes of using it to springboard into a professional basketball contract does not meet the definition of getting one's life together. At any rate, whatever his motivation, Ray Brown is a rare bird among D3 players. Almost all of them participate in college basketball under no illusions whatsoever that it will lead anywhere. To trot out the old but true cliche, they play for the love of the game. Everything about the D3 player -- and the D3 coach who mentors/teaches/guides/screws with/leads him -- has to be viewed within that context. D1 players and coaches and their motivations? Another story altogether.

I could go on and on. But the bottom line is this: D1 and D3 are not "apples to apples." In fact, they're not even all that closely related; they're probably more like apples and artichokes.

This is a D3 discussion room on a D3 website. You really aren't going to get far around here if you keep on dragging D1 players and coaches into the discussion to prove your points.

I'd say the big difference between d3 and d1 is the player has the real power in d3 as they aren't being compensated to play.  Thus, if they don't like the coach, they can quit or transfer and their financial situation won't change.  D1 only gives out 1 year scholarships, and the coaches decide whether to renew that scholarship for next year  

  Whitmore has clearly been losing more impact players than any team in the conference.  It's true that their overall turnover rate is comparable to other schools, but Hamline is losing players that we can safely assume they would rather keep.  

As for Ray Brown's intentions of playing professionally in Europe or anywhere, I don't see anything wrong with using Hamline as a springboard to a basketball contract.  He might be good enough, and could earn more and do a better job of providing for his kids.  Let the kid pursue his dreams.  If he doesn't finish his major this year, isn't granted another year of ncaa eligibility, why not try to get a contract somewhere.  He's come back to school once, he can do it again if he can't make a living playing hoops.


As to the games today- was watching carleton webcast at the end of regulation, and the carleton annoucer sounded something like this:
     

"10 seconds left Augsburg down 2, Cassens with the ball, slashes into the lane, misses from 10feet and .......no!  Brad Panning!!!! sutherland is called for the foul"  

IALTO  

[carletonsid]

As to the games today- was watching carleton webcast at the end of regulation, and the carleton annoucer sounded something like this:
     

"10 seconds left Augsburg down 2, Cassens with the ball, slashes into the lane, misses from 10feet and .......no!  Brad Panning!!!! sutherland is called for the foul"  

IALTO  

Couldn't resist. There was some contact, but not enough IMO to warrant a foul with 7.3 seconds left. Cassens tries the shot fake and duck under move with small bit of contact and foul was called. Whole game was unevenly called, but both ways. Knights made FTs down the stretch (8-9 in OT) and had just enough to knock Auggies off and get into MIAC Playoffs for the ninth straight year.
http://apps.carleton.edu/athletics/varsity_sports/mens_basketball/schedule_and_results/?story_id=607623&event_id=533368