MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[miacsuperfan]

IMO poy comes down to 3 players, but really only 2.  Brown leads th league in scoring (nearly 2 points more than 2nd) 19.4 ppg and 8 rpg, Burtzel 14.5 ppg and 10 rpg, Nicolai 14.2 ppg and 1.9 spg.  I understand UST is #1 but Nicoali really should not get it. 

1 Brown
2 Burtzel
3 Nicolai
IMO

UMAC - are you Catholic? 

nice one, drake.     

[Willy Wonka]

Willy,

Fong came off the bench yesterday as it was St. Olaf's last home game of the season, senior night, starting Weber in his place.  I don't understand how Koz could not have replaced Ramsay instead.  I'm sure he chose to replace Fong because Fong is more of a guard, but replacing Ramsay would have left either Torell or Fong to defend Keeley which I believe would have been just fine because Keeley plays primarily on the perimeter and that is where he did his damage against the St. Olaf posts.  As for the Fong's technical, he had gotten to the basket a couple times and not gotten a call and then once more he drove baseline and clearly was fouled as he was going up and again there was no call.  He then said something, not to the referee, but the referee must not have liked it and gave Fong the tech.

Thanks for the info. While it doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things — the Oles were basically done this year, anyway — it's a little weird to "bench" a sophomore coming off a 34-11 performance, even if it is senior day. Do these things happen at other schools? I know it doesn't at GAC.

To me, this is a little more awkward than it might appear at face value. I mean, since when has Koz loved his seniors? He's had some pretty...let's say explosive...situations with former standouts dating back to Matt Hofkens in 2001 and Teddy "Ballgame" Gonsier in 2005. It's no secret that he tends to fall in love with freshmen, often at the expense of seniors.

I don't mean to make a mountain out of a mole hill...but Koz's track record suggests it might be worth watching more than it might seem.

[Buddo]

I have a feeling I'm opening up a can of worms with this question. But a friend asked me today, do you think UST should leave the MIAC for something like the NSIC (Div. II)? He raised the point of their enrollment, their wealth, and their rampant success.

I think UST could find success at the D2 level. As far as basketball, they have already beaten teams like Winona State in the past, and so I don't think the talent jump would be terrible. Their facilities are top-notch after this new sports complex is built. They also probably have the money to help make the jump.

I also think it's unfair from a recruiting standpoint - UST has a perfect location and 5,000+ kids while schools like Carleton and SMU and even Gustavus have half of that student population, in a small town... heck, with SMU you're comparing 5,300 to 1300. I realize that numbers like that will never be fair, but it's worth mentioning. (The approximate numbers are here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Intercollegiate_Athletic_Conference)

I know that there are a million details and that everyone on this board is probably going to get fired up... but I've never heard about it from people that were very knowledgeable of the situation. Do you think it could/should happen?

[Mr. Ypsi]

I won't extend any opinion on the issue overall, but one of the things you focused on is almost entirely irrelevant - student body size.

D3 is not high school - athletes are not chosen by try-outs from the student body.  They are specifically recruited (at least for most sports at most schools).  Theoretically, a school with an enrollment of 15 could consistently win the national bb championship (if it's the right 15! )  For the last two decades, Mount Union (a fairly average-sized school) has been kicking butt in d3 football.

Student body size MAY mean greater financial resources, which MAY mean greater success, but if it were that simple, NYU would be taking national championships most years.

[Drake Palmer]

Regarding UST & moving up a division:

This comes up practically every year & the answer is always – NO.  Usually the question is asked if UST should go D1?  The answer still is no.  What the UST administration & coaching staff will tell you is that D3 aligns with UST's academic & athletic philosophy.  Besides, the only area where they're coming back home with the occasional national championships is in baseball & women's softball.

I went back through the last 10 years, 2000-2009 & counted up the top 3 finishes each year in the Men's All Sports competition, & here's what I discovered:

UST: (3) 1st place; (5) 2nd place, (2) 3rd place = 10 top 3 finishes
SJU: (6) 1st place, -------------------(4) 3rd place = 10 top 3 finishes
GAC: (1) 1st place, (3) 2nd place, (3) 3rd place = 7 top 3 finishes
STO: -----------------(2) 2nd place, (1) 3rd place= 3 top 3 finishes

[wabbit]

Wabbit — What can I say? They looked bad. Like, very bad. It was painful to watch most of the game. Plus, your boys clearly were gassed in the second half. But it's hard to blame Kalland for sticking with his starters. Check out his bench production: 0-5 FG, 0 points, 3 boards, 1 assist, 8 turnovers in 51 minutes.

Check out those numbers again. Do you really want to argue with me about this? As everyone knows, I'm more than willing

And just wait until UST unleashes the hounds on those Carlie guards. Nance could finish with 10 steals if Fritz gives him some extra run. Mark my words, it won't be pretty.

DP - I already told you. He went on the Kate Moss diet.

Who's arguing Willy Wanker? I thought I was just adding some commentary...
Let's see what I said...

• I hear that Kalland installed a new offense 2 days prior to the GAC game. -  Fact
• That might account for the 17 TOs by the Knights. – Fact
• Typically the Knights don't turn the ball over like that. – Fact
• Those are some pretty smart boys – Fact...Harvard of the Mid-West!
• They will figure it out and turn it around. – Cautiously optimistic

Take a chill pill 

The first two points might be true, but that doesn't change the fact that Carleton is down a little this year. You can make all of the excuses you want, but outside of their starting five, you don't have to guard any of the bench players outside 10 feet. With a bench like that it doesn't matter what offense you have. Every team can just clog the middle and force them to be a perimeter jump shooting team, and they just don't have the shooters to win games like that. They have some nice players in their starting five which on some nights might carry them to victory but not on a consistent basis, especially against the top teams in the league. I wouldn't be surprised if they miss the playoffs this year. I'm not rooting for this cause Carleton has provided GAC so many tough games in the last 5 years and have been fun to watch, but things just aren't pointing to a lot of success this year.

What a difference a season makes eh? After UST, the Knights are the hottest team in the league. Papa is right in that Theison is turning into a player. I overheard one Knight say that the other teams don't change what they do so they are ready for them. This implies that the Knights do change their approach. I'm not smart enough to know.

On another subject I have seen the Johnnies play three games. Two against the Knights and one against the Auggies. They don't look good. They won't win another game this season. Heh heh...

[miacsuperfan]

I have a feeling I'm opening up a can of worms with this question. But a friend asked me today, do you think UST should leave the MIAC for something like the NSIC (Div. II)? He raised the point of their enrollment, their wealth, and their rampant success.

I think UST could find success at the D2 level. As far as basketball, they have already beaten teams like Winona State in the past, and so I don't think the talent jump would be terrible. Their facilities are top-notch after this new sports complex is built. They also probably have the money to help make the jump.

I also think it's unfair from a recruiting standpoint - UST has a perfect location and 5,000+ kids while schools like Carleton and SMU and even Gustavus have half of that student population, in a small town... heck, with SMU you're comparing 5,300 to 1300. I realize that numbers like that will never be fair, but it's worth mentioning. (The approximate numbers are here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Intercollegiate_Athletic_Conference)

I know that there are a million details and that everyone on this board is probably going to get fired up... but I've never heard about it from people that were very knowledgeable of the situation. Do you think it could/should happen?

I have a feeling I'm opening up a can of worms with this question. But a friend asked me today, do you think UST should leave the MIAC for something like the NSIC (Div. II)? He raised the point of their enrollment, their wealth, and their rampant success.

I think UST could find success at the D2 level. As far as basketball, they have already beaten teams like Winona State in the past, and so I don't think the talent jump would be terrible. Their facilities are top-notch after this new sports complex is built. They also probably have the money to help make the jump.

I also think it's unfair from a recruiting standpoint - UST has a perfect location and 5,000+ kids while schools like Carleton and SMU and even Gustavus have half of that student population, in a small town... heck, with SMU you're comparing 5,300 to 1300. I realize that numbers like that will never be fair, but it's worth mentioning. (The approximate numbers are here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Intercollegiate_Athletic_Conference)

I know that there are a million details and that everyone on this board is probably going to get fired up... but I've never heard about it from people that were very knowledgeable of the situation. Do you think it could/should happen?

let me add my two cents to this one:
it is unimaginable why ust would wish to leave the miac for the nsic.  they are the king of the hill in the miac, and the athletic department is doing great things for it's school's reputaion and appeal.  the miac continues to be a consistent and recgonizable league, with great traditions and rivalries.  and with five of the eleven teams in the metro, it gives the league a great hub for publicity.

the nsic has recently become an odd collection of institutions, with little or no history and few recognizable or intriuging rivalries.  spread out over five states in some rather uninteresting communities, it aesthetically carries little or no appeal.  and it is probably less than five years away from another game of musical chairs as it's membership continues to change.  with all due respect to the basketball programs at winona state and northern state in aberdeen, there are few nsic teams that would consistently entice me to to travel and watch.

the move by ust to D-1 would make more sense athletically, but as was suggested would not be in line with the academic philosophies of the school administration.

[sumander]

the nsic has recently become an odd collection of institutions, with little or no history and few recognizable or intriuging rivalries.  spread out over five states in some rather uninteresting communities, it aesthetically carries little or no appeal.  and it is probably less than five years away from another game of musical chairs as it's membership continues to change.  with all due respect to the basketball programs at winona state and northern state in aberdeen, there are few nsic teams that would consistently entice me to to travel and watch.

Superfan, you are spot on with your thoughts about the NSIC. The old NCC used to have some great rivalries that were forged over time. I don't see anything like that developing with the NSIC. The travel budget alone would be enough to keep UST from wanting in to the conference.

[sumander]

Oh by the way, that noise you heard on Saturday afternoon was the door shutting on Auggie Tech's Pool C chances!!

[AO]

Here's a hypothetical:
Delany calls up Fritz looking for a 12th member for the big ten.  Fritz does some calling around and finds out that it would easy to expand the new gym to 10,000 seats and the football stadium to 20,000.  WWFD?  What would Fritz do?

[sumander]

AO, milestone post coming up.....anticipating something A)controversial B)articulate C)Though provoking D)None of the above E) All of the above.

[Drake Palmer]

Here's a hypothetical:
Delany calls up Fritz looking for a 12th member for the big ten.  Fritz does some calling around and finds out that it would easy to expand the new gym to 10,000 seats and the football stadium to 20,000.  WWFD?  What would Fritz do?

C'mon AO- the Mac-Groveland neighborhood would revolt if anymore major construction projects would materialize other than what's already on the books. The last one (student union?) is scheduled to begin on the corner of Cretin & Summit right after the new athletic complex is completed in 2010.

And, the Big Ten is going to want more revenue than what a 20,00 seat stadium would provide.  Besides, the Tommies can't fill up their current football stadium, where would they find an additional 19,500 fans?

[Drake Palmer]

AO, milestone post coming up.....anticipating something A)controversial B)articulate C)Though provoking D)None of the above E) All of the above.

Sum - In baseball parlance, watch AO throw a waste pitch.  Shame.   

AO - the judges are waiting, mouse buttons poised to click -  +k, or smite, you decide.   

[piperinsider]

IMO poy comes down to 3 players, but really only 2.  Brown leads th league in scoring (nearly 2 points more than 2nd) 19.4 ppg and 8 rpg, Burtzel 14.5 ppg and 10 rpg, Nicolai 14.2 ppg and 1.9 spg.  I understand UST is #1 but Nicoali really should not get it. 

1 Brown
2 Burtzel
3 Nicolai
IMO

Burtzel is still a no brainer. I know his numbers are going down and teams are focusing on shutting him down, but he is still leading the conference in rebounding (tied with Fraase @ 10/game), field goal percentage (63.5 %), assists (4.8/game), and he is 10th in scoring(13.7/game) and 3rd in steals (1.5/game).

I have a bias because I have seen HU play more than I have seen anyone else this season, so I have seen Brown on his best and worst nights. I have seen Burtzel three times and every time he has impressed me more. Every time he is out of the game, SJU is worse. Although Brown is hugely beneficial the majority of the time, I have seen him work to HU's detriment as well (more so early in the season). Also, a major factor to be considered is the fact that Brown has Hipp. Teams have to respect both of them which takes some of the individual pressure off of Brown. It has become obvious over the last few games that teams are focusing all of their energies on taking Burtzel away, which I believe has led to SJU's struggles lately. All in all, I think Burtzel is just a little bit more important to the success of his team.

Hamline goes from near the bottom of the MIAC standings to a playoff bid and within a couple of wins away from the second spot in one year and you're saying the biggest piece of the Vipers puzzle isn't the most important player to his team in the league?

I understand that Hipp is almost equals with Brown in that conversation in terms of scoring/rebounding, but does Carl make his teammates better? No. He is a catch and turn guy. I haven't seen a ton of games, but he is not much of an inside-out guy. Ray on the other hand makes Carl better. And the rest of his team to be exact. Many posters have stated that the Vipers are at their best when Brown can penetrate and find the open shooters and get shots in the lane.

Isn't that what the most valuable player is? Take out Ray and Hamline is a non-playoff team. Take out Nicolai or Burtzel and both UST and SJU still make the playoffs. Brown is flat out the best player in the league and I think the coaches reward Hamline and Brown for their improvement and plus its his *senior year.

[AO]

AO, milestone post coming up.....anticipating something A)controversial B)articulate C)Though provoking D)None of the above E) All of the above.

Sum - In baseball parlance, watch AO throw a waste pitch.  Shame.  

AO - the judges are waiting, mouse buttons poised to click -  +k, or smite, you decide.