MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[VOJ]

AO, milestone post coming up.....anticipating something A)controversial B)articulate C)Though provoking D)None of the above E) All of the above.

Sum - In baseball parlance, watch AO throw a waste pitch.  Shame.  

AO - the judges are waiting, mouse buttons poised to click -  +k, or smite, you decide.  

WOW...I have to say that old AO answered the challenge on this one...how do you like your crow Drake...on white or wheat, with mustard or mayo?

[Drake Palmer]

AO, milestone post coming up.....anticipating something A)controversial B)articulate C)Though provoking D)None of the above E) All of the above.

Sum - In baseball parlance, watch AO throw a waste pitch.  Shame.   

AO - the judges are waiting, mouse buttons poised to click -  +k, or smite, you decide.   

PLUS +K, baby!!! Daily K for the next week!

Sweet!

[Drake Palmer]

VOJ - Ain't no crow to eat. Sum threw out a question, I followed up & made a friendly challenge out of the question, & the Contender hit a home run. Where's the need for crow eating?

And unlike other posters who (ahem) say +k  , I actually clicked, gave him the K, & will do so for the rest of the week. Some people aren't that petty.

Jonkey Kong Baby!

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

AO, milestone post coming up.....anticipating something A)controversial B)articulate C)Though provoking D)None of the above E) All of the above.

Sum - In baseball parlance, watch AO throw a waste pitch.  Shame.   

AO - the judges are waiting, mouse buttons poised to click -  +k, or smite, you decide.   

PLUS +K, baby!!! Daily K for the next week!

Sweet!

I echo DP's sentiment and +k...blockbuster post... Post of the year? of the month for sure

As far as the annual "should UST leave the MIAC" question, I think DP covered the answer. Bottom line is UST's philosophy in general and its approach to athletics is in perfect sync with that of D-III and the MIAC.  Any move to D-2 or D-1 would require massive outlays for facilities & scholarships, and would likely be a deathknell for some sports due to fiscal constraints. Aint happening, so no need to discuss it annually.  It is as likely as GAC (due to its dominance in swimming, tennis and golf) or SJU (football and golf) or Augsburg (wrestling) leaving the MIAC or MT Union (football) or Kenyon (swimming) leaving D-III. Moot.

[Willy Wonka]

IMO poy comes down to 3 players, but really only 2.  Brown leads th league in scoring (nearly 2 points more than 2nd) 19.4 ppg and 8 rpg, Burtzel 14.5 ppg and 10 rpg, Nicolai 14.2 ppg and 1.9 spg.  I understand UST is #1 but Nicoali really should not get it. 

1 Brown
2 Burtzel
3 Nicolai
IMO

Burtzel is still a no brainer. I know his numbers are going down and teams are focusing on shutting him down, but he is still leading the conference in rebounding (tied with Fraase @ 10/game), field goal percentage (63.5 %), assists (4.8/game), and he is 10th in scoring(13.7/game) and 3rd in steals (1.5/game).

I have a bias because I have seen HU play more than I have seen anyone else this season, so I have seen Brown on his best and worst nights. I have seen Burtzel three times and every time he has impressed me more. Every time he is out of the game, SJU is worse. Although Brown is hugely beneficial the majority of the time, I have seen him work to HU's detriment as well (more so early in the season). Also, a major factor to be considered is the fact that Brown has Hipp. Teams have to respect both of them which takes some of the individual pressure off of Brown. It has become obvious over the last few games that teams are focusing all of their energies on taking Burtzel away, which I believe has led to SJU's struggles lately. All in all, I think Burtzel is just a little bit more important to the success of his team.

Hamline goes from near the bottom of the MIAC standings to a playoff bid and within a couple of wins away from the second spot in one year and you're saying the biggest piece of the Vipers puzzle isn't the most important player to his team in the league?

I understand that Hipp is almost equals with Brown in that conversation in terms of scoring/rebounding, but does Carl make his teammates better? No. He is a catch and turn guy. I haven't seen a ton of games, but he is not much of an inside-out guy. Ray on the other hand makes Carl better. And the rest of his team to be exact. Many posters have stated that the Vipers are at their best when Brown can penetrate and find the open shooters and get shots in the lane.

Isn't that what the most valuable player is? Take out Ray and Hamline is a non-playoff team. Take out Nicolai or Burtzel and both UST and SJU still make the playoffs. Brown is flat out the best player in the league and I think the coaches reward Hamline and Brown for their improvement and plus its his *senior year.

Love your passion, question your logic.

By what definition does Brown make people better? More specifically, does he make them better than Burtzel? Outside of shooting range, is there a single thing he does better than SJU's stud? That's a serious question, since I haven't seen the Johnnies play...but the stats would suggest a pretty obvious answer. Brown does score more, but I'd like the record to show that Brown could almost finish with twice as many shots as Burtzel — it's currently 243-148.

Simplifying things by saying the flashiest player is also the best is the equivalent of basketball heresy to me. I'll take the most efficient player in the league, by far, every time in this debate. And FYI - the Johnnies might realistically be cellar-dwellers without him since they're barely a .500 team with him.

The next two games should go a long way to determining the MVP. I'd prefer Burtzel as long as SJU doesn't finish 10-10, but Brown could win if Hamline finished 13-7. For what it's worth, I expect the coaches to stick to their guns and reward UST's season by choosing Nicolai.

[Drake Palmer]

AO, milestone post coming up.....anticipating something A)controversial B)articulate C)Though provoking D)None of the above E) All of the above.

Sum - In baseball parlance, watch AO throw a waste pitch.  Shame.   

AO - the judges are waiting, mouse buttons poised to click -  +k, or smite, you decide.   

PLUS +K, baby!!! Daily K for the next week!

Sweet!

I echo DP's sentiment and +k...blockbuster post... Post of the year? of the month for sure

Lets' hope C-Sid gets a copy of this & gets it to the Jonker Kong fan club. This would definitely make Sports Center Top10 posts.

Speaking of Top 10 Posts, I miss the brilliance of PHDHoops, that guy was sheer genius!!  I might have to go back through my archives & see if I can find it & repost. One of the best posts ever written on this board.  War & Peace, truly an epic post. 

I wonder if Doc is withering away someplace waiting for someone to finish their red-shirt season?

[VOJ]

VOJ - Ain't no crow to eat. Sum threw out a question, I followed up & made a friendly challenge out of the question, & the Contender hit a home run. Where's the need for crow eating?

And unlike other posters who (ahem) say +k  , I actually clicked, gave him the K, & will do so for the rest of the week. Some people aren't that petty.

Jonkey Kong Baby!

I believe you said his 1000th post would be a waste pitch??  That is slighting him a little bit...or challenging him as you put it.  I gave him +K as well, he deserved it, nice work on the photo shop or whatever you would use for that...

[Mr. Ypsi]

VOJ - Ain't no crow to eat. Sum threw out a question, I followed up & made a friendly challenge out of the question, & the Contender hit a home run. Where's the need for crow eating?

And unlike other posters who (ahem) say +k  , I actually clicked, gave him the K, & will do so for the rest of the week. Some people aren't that petty.

Jonkey Kong Baby!

I believe you said his 1000th post would be a waste pitch??  That is slighting him a little bit...or challenging him as you put it.  I gave him +K as well, he deserved it, nice work on the photo shop or whatever you would use for that...

It looks like you'll be reaching the same milestone post within a week or so.  Better start planning how to top Jonkey Kong!

[VOJ]

IMO poy comes down to 3 players, but really only 2.  Brown leads th league in scoring (nearly 2 points more than 2nd) 19.4 ppg and 8 rpg, Burtzel 14.5 ppg and 10 rpg, Nicolai 14.2 ppg and 1.9 spg.  I understand UST is #1 but Nicoali really should not get it. 

1 Brown
2 Burtzel
3 Nicolai
IMO

Burtzel is still a no brainer. I know his numbers are going down and teams are focusing on shutting him down, but he is still leading the conference in rebounding (tied with Fraase @ 10/game), field goal percentage (63.5 %), assists (4.8/game), and he is 10th in scoring(13.7/game) and 3rd in steals (1.5/game).

I have a bias because I have seen HU play more than I have seen anyone else this season, so I have seen Brown on his best and worst nights. I have seen Burtzel three times and every time he has impressed me more. Every time he is out of the game, SJU is worse. Although Brown is hugely beneficial the majority of the time, I have seen him work to HU's detriment as well (more so early in the season). Also, a major factor to be considered is the fact that Brown has Hipp. Teams have to respect both of them which takes some of the individual pressure off of Brown. It has become obvious over the last few games that teams are focusing all of their energies on taking Burtzel away, which I believe has led to SJU's struggles lately. All in all, I think Burtzel is just a little bit more important to the success of his team.

Hamline goes from near the bottom of the MIAC standings to a playoff bid and within a couple of wins away from the second spot in one year and you're saying the biggest piece of the Vipers puzzle isn't the most important player to his team in the league?

I understand that Hipp is almost equals with Brown in that conversation in terms of scoring/rebounding, but does Carl make his teammates better? No. He is a catch and turn guy. I haven't seen a ton of games, but he is not much of an inside-out guy. Ray on the other hand makes Carl better. And the rest of his team to be exact. Many posters have stated that the Vipers are at their best when Brown can penetrate and find the open shooters and get shots in the lane.

Isn't that what the most valuable player is? Take out Ray and Hamline is a non-playoff team. Take out Nicolai or Burtzel and both UST and SJU still make the playoffs. Brown is flat out the best player in the league and I think the coaches reward Hamline and Brown for their improvement and plus its his *senior year.

Love your passion, question your logic.

By what definition does Brown make people better? More specifically, does he make them better than Burtzel? Outside of shooting range, is there a single thing he does better than SJU's stud? That's a serious question, since I haven't seen the Johnnies play...but the stats would suggest a pretty obvious answer. Brown does score more, but I'd like the record to show that Brown could almost finish with twice as many shots as Burtzel — it's currently 243-148.

Simplifying things by saying the flashiest player is also the best is the equivalent of basketball heresy to me. I'll take the most efficient player in the league, by far, every time in this debate. And FYI - the Johnnies might realistically be cellar-dwellers without him since they're barely a .500 team with him.

The next two games should go a long way to determining the MVP. I'd prefer Burtzel as long as SJU doesn't finish 10-10, but Brown could win if Hamline finished 13-7. For what it's worth, I expect the coaches to stick to their guns and reward UST's season by choosing Nicolai.

WW...you make some good points and I think it could be summed up this way, Brown is probably the most OUTSTANDING player in the MIAC, is he the most VALUABLE player?  Maybe...I have talked to a few coaches about this and there seems to be agreement that Hamline would not be battling for the two seed or at least a home playoff game if Brown were not on the roster, nice mix of guys just not enough talent without him.

Burtzel's value was stated above and while he might not have the high-flying game Brown does, he does what he does well, and he plays a true team game doing what needs to be done.  That training started early on during his years under legendary Hall of Fame Rocori coach Bob Brink and has continued under the instruction of the Johnnies coaching staff.  

I do think the Johnnies would be a playoff team without Burtzel, but why even think that nightmarish thought??

[VOJ]

VOJ - Ain't no crow to eat. Sum threw out a question, I followed up & made a friendly challenge out of the question, & the Contender hit a home run. Where's the need for crow eating?

And unlike other posters who (ahem) say +k  , I actually clicked, gave him the K, & will do so for the rest of the week. Some people aren't that petty.

Jonkey Kong Baby!

I believe you said his 1000th post would be a waste pitch??  That is slighting him a little bit...or challenging him as you put it.  I gave him +K as well, he deserved it, nice work on the photo shop or whatever you would use for that...

It looks like you'll be reaching the same milestone post within a week or so.  Better start planning how to top Jonkey Kong!

I don't have the photo shop skills and leave the props and links and other posting innovations to guys like WW and Drake

[Drake Palmer]

VOJ - Ain't no crow to eat. Sum threw out a question, I followed up & made a friendly challenge out of the question, & the Contender hit a home run. Where's the need for crow eating?

And unlike other posters who (ahem) say +k  , I actually clicked, gave him the K, & will do so for the rest of the week. Some people aren't that petty.

Jonkey Kong Baby!

I believe you said his 1000th post would be a waste pitch??  That is slighting him a little bit...or challenging him as you put it.  I gave him +K as well, he deserved it, nice work on the photo shop or whatever you would use for that...

VOJ -do you have ADD? What was the sentence RIGHT, DIRECTLY BELOW THE SENTENCE  ABOUT A "WASTE PITCH"...

C'mon you can read it.  I'll help you.   It said & I quote ....


AO - the judges are waiting, mouse buttons poised to click -  +k, or smite, you decide.   


And in case you were wondering the Purple highlight is for his alma mater - Northwestern.

I might have to enlist the help of young Mr. AO or Sum to assist me with my next milestone post.  I've had an idea I've been sitting on.   

[Drake Palmer]

...Burtzel's value was stated above and while he might not have the high-flying game Brown does, he does what he does well, and he plays a true team game doing what needs to be done.

That training started early on during his years under legendary Hall of Fame Rocori coach Bob Brink and has continued under the instruction of the Johnnies coaching staff.

I do think the Johnnies would be a playoff team without Burtzel, but why even think that nightmarish thought??

Two things.

1) I see you're making sure you know who butters your bread.  I'm glad you you didn't use the phrase "mentoring & tutelage by the caring, experienced Johnnies coaching staff." I would have chucked up my breakfast. 

2) Are you SERIOUS???  And did you take your meds this morning??? The Jays are barely limping into the playoffs with a 10-8 record & yet you claim they could be a playoff team without Burtzel??  Tell your boss you're sick, go home & lie down.  You've obviously totally succumbed to the new strain of flu virus "I can't see clearly Johnnie" flu.  I'm sure there must be a good medical facilities up in the St. Cloud area.  Wow!

[Willy Wonka]

...Burtzel's value was stated above and while he might not have the high-flying game Brown does, he does what he does well, and he plays a true team game doing what needs to be done.

That training started early on during his years under legendary Hall of Fame Rocori coach Bob Brink and has continued under the instruction of the Johnnies coaching staff.

I do think the Johnnies would be a playoff team without Burtzel, but why even think that nightmarish thought??

Two things.

1) I see you're making sure you know who butters your bread.  I'm glad you you didn't use the phrase "mentoring & tutelage by the caring, experienced Johnnies coaching staff." I would have chucked up my breakfast. 

2) Are you SERIOUS???  And did you take your meds this morning??? The Jays are barely limping into the playoffs with a 10-8 record & yet you claim they could be a playoff team without Burtzel??  Tell your boss you're sick, go home & lie down.  You've obviously totally succumbed to the new strain of flu virus "I can't see clearly Johnnie" flu.  I'm sure there must be a good medical facilities up in the St. Cloud area.  Wow!

Hey now, let's not single him out. PI made the same ridiculous claim a few posts earlier...

[huhoops]

IMO poy comes down to 3 players, but really only 2.  Brown leads th league in scoring (nearly 2 points more than 2nd) 19.4 ppg and 8 rpg, Burtzel 14.5 ppg and 10 rpg, Nicolai 14.2 ppg and 1.9 spg.  I understand UST is #1 but Nicoali really should not get it.  

1 Brown
2 Burtzel
3 Nicolai
IMO

Burtzel is still a no brainer. I know his numbers are going down and teams are focusing on shutting him down, but he is still leading the conference in rebounding (tied with Fraase @ 10/game), field goal percentage (63.5 %), assists (4.8/game), and he is 10th in scoring(13.7/game) and 3rd in steals (1.5/game).

I have a bias because I have seen HU play more than I have seen anyone else this season, so I have seen Brown on his best and worst nights. I have seen Burtzel three times and every time he has impressed me more. Every time he is out of the game, SJU is worse. Although Brown is hugely beneficial the majority of the time, I have seen him work to HU's detriment as well (more so early in the season). Also, a major factor to be considered is the fact that Brown has Hipp. Teams have to respect both of them which takes some of the individual pressure off of Brown. It has become obvious over the last few games that teams are focusing all of their energies on taking Burtzel away, which I believe has led to SJU's struggles lately. All in all, I think Burtzel is just a little bit more important to the success of his team.

Hamline goes from near the bottom of the MIAC standings to a playoff bid and within a couple of wins away from the second spot in one year and you're saying the biggest piece of the Vipers puzzle isn't the most important player to his team in the league?

I understand that Hipp is almost equals with Brown in that conversation in terms of scoring/rebounding, but does Carl make his teammates better? No. He is a catch and turn guy. I haven't seen a ton of games, but he is not much of an inside-out guy. Ray on the other hand makes Carl better. And the rest of his team to be exact. Many posters have stated that the Vipers are at their best when Brown can penetrate and find the open shooters and get shots in the lane.

Isn't that what the most valuable player is? Take out Ray and Hamline is a non-playoff team. Take out Nicolai or Burtzel and both UST and SJU still make the playoffs. Brown is flat out the best player in the league and I think the coaches reward Hamline and Brown for their improvement and plus its his *senior year.

You also need to take into consideration that this year's HU freshman class is MUCH better than what they had playing last year. It's hard to compare this year's team to last when the product on the floor is so drastically different, including Brown, of course.

Another point is, and it has been stated before, the biggest/most important difference with this year's HU team and recent ones that have struggled is in a category that Brown seems to have little impact--DEFENSE HU holds teams to the second lowest field goal percentage in the conference (41.2%). They have held opponents under 70 points 7 times in the past 2 seasons and have already done it over 10 times this season.

Brown is a prolific scorer and has the ability to dominate a game on the offensive end. Without Hipp, he is not able to do that without forcing up an inordinate amount of shots.

The best word to separate Burtzel, and Willy used it, is efficiency. He scores 14 points a game on an average of 8 shots. He dishes out just about 5 assists per game and gets 10 rebounds. Brown has games like this, but he has others where he will have 18 points on 14 shots and have 5 or 6 TO's.

In my mind, Brown is easily the second MVP in the conference and is in the discussion for first.

Also, I don't think SJU or HU is in the playoffs without Burtzel and Brown. Maybe in the hunt, but neither get there.

[carletonsid]

AO, milestone post coming up.....anticipating something A)controversial B)articulate C)Though provoking D)None of the above E) All of the above.

Sum - In baseball parlance, watch AO throw a waste pitch.  Shame.   

AO - the judges are waiting, mouse buttons poised to click -  +k, or smite, you decide.   

PLUS +K, baby!!! Daily K for the next week!

Sweet!

I echo DP's sentiment and +k...blockbuster post... Post of the year? of the month for sure

Lets' hope C-Sid gets a copy of this & gets it to the Jonker Kong fan club. This would definitely make Sports Center Top10 posts.

Speaking of Top 10 Posts, I miss the brilliance of PHDHoops, that guy was sheer genius!!  I might have to go back through my archives & see if I can find it & repost. One of the best posts ever written on this board.  War & Peace, truly an epic post. 

I wonder if Doc is withering away someplace waiting for someone to finish their red-shirt season?

If Carleton gets another home game, I'll look into it. AO, I'm impressed. Shot clock running down, isolated at the top of the key, he drives, stop, shoots, HE SCORES!