MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[huhoops]

Pipes Win!!

Hamline beats Elmhurst 71-67 with the special Zebra trapping defense in the last seconds of the game!!  

Down 65-66 with approximately 50 seconds left, 3 Pipers trap the ball after a Hamline basket. In one of the strangest calls I've ever seen, the refs called the Elmhurst player for an intentional, offensive foul for swinging his elbows trying to ward off the Hamline defense. Noah Aguirre goes to the FT line to shoot the technical foul. Aguirre makes both FTs, Hamline gets the ball again, someone else scores a basket for Hamline, (I forgot) & general craziness ensues. Someone else from Hamline makes 1-2 FTs.

Then with Hamline up by 4 points (?), 70-66, in the closing seconds of the game, Aguirre foolishly fouls an Elmhurst player attempting a trey.  The Elmhurst player makes one of 2 FTs, they deliberately miss the last FT, Christian Taber is fouled & makes 1 of 2 FTs to make the final score 71-67?

Sorry for the messed up post  - I sort of lost my head trying to keep up with the last minute pandemonium!  

The Portland Trailblazer did knock down back to back treys.  

Drake, or anyone else that has knowledge of the intentional foul call, what was your take on it? The web-cast stated that in fact the rule on contact to the head by an offensive player had been amended effective this season. Any contact of the sort is deemed intentional, which I think puts the offensive player at a huge disadvantage. I feel that the offensive player is allowed that elbow space to pivot while under pressure and that there needs to be a human element of judgment as to whether contact is intentional or incidental.  So many calls (you could argue all calls) are left up to the discretion of the referees and they are "judgment calls", so why should this be any different? Of course, I was jumping out of my seat with joy when I saw Aguirre go to the free throw line for HU, get the possession, and ultimately pull out the improbable victory through Elmhurst's misfortunes  , but objectively, one could make the argument that the Jays got shafted. I stayed tuned just to see how the Elmhurst coach would respond in his post game interview when asked about the controversial play, and put it this way, he handled it a lot better than I would/could have. He simply deemed it unfortunate and stated that they should have been up by more at that point anyways, basically negating the importance of that one call. Either way, I'll take the first W of the season for my boys 

Bethel rolls over a sub-par Wisconsin Lutheran team. I caught some of the web-cast and it was a really physical game that I thought got out of hand. Highlight of the game was seeing BU's Elliot Risbrudt get crushed on a clean open court ball screen, immediately jump off the floor, sprint full speed into the lane and pummel a WL player that was completely out of the play, the kid goes flying in front of the ref (no call ), then Risbrudt walks over and helps the kid up, ALL WHILE THE PLAY IS GOING ON!!! Risbrudt, as well as numerous other Royals had some serious cheap shots during the course of the game. On a side note, I thought it was pretty tacky that BU didn't hire a student to keep the webcast going for the second (championship) game of the tournament between Trinity International and UW La Crosse in a game where Trinity International actually beat UW-L! The webcast was on, but it was set still on one side of the court and no live state were being kept. Second rate fellas 

Not an amazing win for SMU, but better than Crown. The big 3 held to modest numbers (Wright and Holland had 10 and 9 respectively while Palmer came in with 23), but Gary Siefert is looking like a formidable option off the bench for the Cards. I don't think he can guard any of the premier 4 men in the conference, but the crafty under-sized post should prove to be valuable against the middle tier of the conference.

Point Special said about everything there is to say about the Johnnies game...

[aero75]

The intent of the elbow rule as it stands now is to prevent the elbow moving faster than the hips. IF the imaginary line between the two elbows moves faster than the shoulder or hip line, and contact occurs, a flagrant foul is supposed to be called. IF no contact occurs, an ordinary violation is supposed to be called. This is in the points of emphasis in the current rule book.

Do the officials call the rule book?? I have never seen the no contact violation called.

Anyone else have any different takes?

[Drake Palmer]

Hoops – I thought it was ironic that in the game summary the Hamline sports department made no reference to the generous, "spirit of Thanksgiving" call by the referee,   but the Elmhurst site had this to say...

Elmhurst inbounded the ball and Hamline immediately pressed trying to force a turnover. Zack Boyd was whistled for an offensive foul, but due to a new rule on high elbows, the foul was classified as an intentional foul, resulting in two free throws and the ball for Hamline. Noah Aguire hit both free throws to put Hamline on top 67-66. Hamline pushed its lead up to 69-66 after a pair of free throws.

The Bluejays' Aaron Schroeder was fouled attempting a game-tying three-pointer with just 1.7 seconds left on the clock. Schroeder hit the first free throw but his second attempt bounced off the back of the rim. Elmhurst tried to set up a tip-in play, but the Bluejays were whistled for a lane violation giving Hamline the ball back. Christian Taber iced the game for the Pipers with a pair of free throws, giving Hamline the 71-67.

http://www.elmhurstbluejays.com/news/2010/11/20/MBB_1120100357.aspx?path=mbball

This must be a new interpretation of this rule for the season, as I also saw this call in the Vanderbilt-UNC game yesterday.
***
Cobbs wore down St.  Scholastica with their depth in the 2nd half on Saturday & won 64-55.  At one point they were down by 19 points in the 2nd half.  Somehow they managed to win despite shooting 37.3% FGA & 7-27 from the 3pt line for a cool 26%. I think it would be a good idea for someone to tell Coach Glas that this is not a 3pt shooting team. 

Despite a very slow start by the Gusties, & a poor shooting performance, they almost managed to "steal" a game at UW-Superior, but fell on a last second 3 pt shot 71-68. Seth Anderson led the comeback with 16 pts, 14 in the 2nd half. Phil Wirtjes also had 16 & 8 rebs from the 2G spot, James Hill 15, & Paul Blacklock 10 pts & 9 rebs.  Not a bad loss considering that Superior is picked to finish in the top half of the WIAC this season.  I believe 4th.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but the Tommies are 3-0 on the young season. They barely squeaked by Pacific Lutheran on Friday night 73-70, & disposed of Puget Sound 69-49 Saturday night.  They have their inaugural game at the new Shoe on Tuesday night against UW-River Falls. 

[aero75]

I will paste from this years points of emphasis, I don't want to wade thru the rule book.

quote

Excessive Swinging of the Elbows

Last year, there were increases in excessive swinging of the elbows. This
action should not be ignored because of the associated danger to another
player. Contact resulting from an illegally thrown elbow can cause serious
injury. Consequently, excessive swinging of the elbow(s) is a point of
emphasis.

When the arm and elbow, with the shoulder as a base (pivot) are swung
with a speed that exceeds the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on
the pivot foot, that action is considered to be excessive. Contact, after such
an action, shall not be ignored but shall be called a flagrant foul. When the
player's arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung excessively but without contact, a
violation has been committed.

When the arms and elbows and the rest of the body move with the same or
similarly generated speed and contact occurs, that contact is not considered to
be excessive. However, the contact is illegal, and a foul shall be assessed.

end quote

My earlier post left the third option of contact occurring in a normal pivot which is also a foul and that is the real change this year apparently.

I would love for someone that officiates to comment

[Drake Palmer]

Aero - Based on your posts, I thought you were a ref.  

Say, in other purple related news, what's happened with former Hamline Piper, SW MN Mustang & current UST Tommie - Eric Clute?  I've not seen his name in the box scores yet, nor was he mentioned in the UST season preview as a player to watch. Does anyone know - "class, class, Ferris (Mose)" I'm looking at you.  

I still contend if he was going to transfer back to the MIAC he should have gone to a school where he could have been a bigger fish - such as Gustavus, St. Olaf, Augsburg, or Concordia.  Obviously the Cobbs need a shooter, or two.  

[huhoops]

I will paste from this years points of emphasis, I don't want to wade thru the rule book.

quote

Excessive Swinging of the Elbows

Last year, there were increases in excessive swinging of the elbows. This
action should not be ignored because of the associated danger to another
player. Contact resulting from an illegally thrown elbow can cause serious
injury. Consequently, excessive swinging of the elbow(s) is a point of
emphasis.

When the arm and elbow, with the shoulder as a base (pivot) are swung
with a speed that exceeds the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on
the pivot foot, that action is considered to be excessive. Contact, after such
an action, shall not be ignored but shall be called a flagrant foul. When the
player's arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung excessively but without contact, a
violation has been committed.

When the arms and elbows and the rest of the body move with the same or
similarly generated speed and contact occurs, that contact is not considered to
be excessive. However, the contact is illegal, and a foul shall be assessed.

end quote

My earlier post left the third option of contact occurring in a normal pivot which is also a foul and that is the real change this year apparently.

I would love for someone that officiates to comment

This is just my opinion but I think the player with the ball should be allowed that elbow's distance to operate with the ball. The ability to sweep through strong and get the defender off you is such an important aspect of handling pressure. It definitely is an added challenge for the offensive player and adds more emphasis to the coaching point that you need to sweep "low and hard".

The part about the rule that I don't like is that there is no element of "aim", if you will. I think it's fairly obvious to tell if the offensive player is aiming for the pressuring defenders head/face, as opposed to if they are simply trying to create operating space. Right 

Aero - Based on your posts, I thought you were a ref. 

Say, in other purple related news, what's happened with former Hamline Piper, SW MN Mustang & current UST Tommie - Eric Clute?  I've not seen his name in the box scores yet, nor was he mentioned in the UST season preview as a player to watch. Does anyone know - "class, class, Ferris (Mose)" I'm looking at you. 

I still contend if he was going to transfer back to the MIAC he should have gone to a school where he could have been a bigger fish - such as Gustavus, St. Olaf, Augsburg, or Concordia.  Obviously the Cobbs need a shooter, or two. 

I believe Clute is injured. He isn't suiting up for games but is joining the team on the bench with Noah Kaiser. It will be interesting to see if the Tommies find a role for him as they will likely be incorporating FY Riedeman more and more as well as combo sport football stud Brady Erving. IMO, the future looks bleek for the man once called "flute", in terms of his role with the purple. The Prophet may have some more up to date info that I on Clute's status.

[columbianmaffia]

Greetings fellow board members.

greetings earthling?

[columbianmaffia]

I in fact do follow all oregon players, and have for years.  Post on many other boards as well.  Maxpreps verifies my indication of scoring, and assists for the 6A level.  Also, all time leading scorer at his HS.  My point of scoring threats was in relation to this years available players, my mistake, not Ray Brown.  Campbell this year to me appears to be the only guard threat if you base anything off of what was done last year.   So my email is davidpannell? so what?  If you want to research my assession of Tylers skill level, just google his name, you will find a plethora of information to help you see I am unbiased, just stating facts.  And I am surprised he is D3, when D2 options were readily available.   Time will tell, but I stand by my assertion that he will be a huge asset to Hamline.  And can offer what a previous poster was unsure of, which is a shooter who can spread the defense, and offer the outside threat they apparantly are in need of. 

turn that frown upside down or i will tickle you!!  i hope you continue to post...its okay to post even if you have a fam member who plays on a team...i use to do it and i also use to roller skate (yup the roller skates have been put away )

[columbianmaffia]

TRIPPLE POST IN HONOR OF THE TRIPPLE BURGER!!!!!!!

nice work by the gophers this weekend in the puerto rico shootout! ski-u-mah

im lookin forward to miac and big 10 season to start

i guess you could say i have a rise in my levis....UH-OH!!! 

[Drake Palmer]

***

I in fact do follow all oregon players, and have for years.  Post on many other boards as well.  Maxpreps verifies my indication of scoring, and assists for the 6A level.  Also, all time leading scorer at his HS.  My point of scoring threats was in relation to this years available players, my mistake, not Ray Brown.  Campbell this year to me appears to be the only guard threat if you base anything off of what was done last year.   So my email is davidpannell? so what?  If you want to research my assession of Tylers skill level, just google his name, you will find a plethora of information to help you see I am unbiased, just stating facts.  And I am surprised he is D3, when D2 options were readily available.   Time will tell, but I stand by my assertion that he will be a huge asset to Hamline.  And can offer what a previous poster was unsure of, which is a shooter who can spread the defense, and offer the outside threat they apparantly are in need of. 

turn that frown upside down or i will tickle you!! i hope you continue to post...its okay to post even if you have a fam member who plays on a team...i use to do it and i also use to roller skate (yup the roller skates have been put away )

You did?  Hmmpph, you could have fooled me. 

I don't think anyone is discouraging Fano from posting, the more the merrier.  Just be cool about shilling for your family. 

[columbianmaffia]

***

I in fact do follow all oregon players, and have for years.  Post on many other boards as well.  Maxpreps verifies my indication of scoring, and assists for the 6A level.  Also, all time leading scorer at his HS.  My point of scoring threats was in relation to this years available players, my mistake, not Ray Brown.  Campbell this year to me appears to be the only guard threat if you base anything off of what was done last year.   So my email is davidpannell? so what?  If you want to research my assession of Tylers skill level, just google his name, you will find a plethora of information to help you see I am unbiased, just stating facts.  And I am surprised he is D3, when D2 options were readily available.   Time will tell, but I stand by my assertion that he will be a huge asset to Hamline.  And can offer what a previous poster was unsure of, which is a shooter who can spread the defense, and offer the outside threat they apparantly are in need of.  

turn that frown upside down or i will tickle you!! i hope you continue to post...its okay to post even if you have a fam member who plays on a team...i use to do it and i also use to roller skate (yup the roller skates have been put away )

You did?  Hmmpph, you could have fooled me. 

I don't think anyone is discouraging Fano from posting, the more the merrier.  Just be cool about shilling for your family.  

no one could figure it out because i was always in a disguise everytime i posted so no one would recognize me  

[columbianmaffia]

***

I in fact do follow all oregon players, and have for years.  Post on many other boards as well.  Maxpreps verifies my indication of scoring, and assists for the 6A level.  Also, all time leading scorer at his HS.  My point of scoring threats was in relation to this years available players, my mistake, not Ray Brown.  Campbell this year to me appears to be the only guard threat if you base anything off of what was done last year.   So my email is davidpannell? so what?  If you want to research my assession of Tylers skill level, just google his name, you will find a plethora of information to help you see I am unbiased, just stating facts.  And I am surprised he is D3, when D2 options were readily available.   Time will tell, but I stand by my assertion that he will be a huge asset to Hamline.  And can offer what a previous poster was unsure of, which is a shooter who can spread the defense, and offer the outside threat they apparantly are in need of. 

turn that frown upside down or i will tickle you!! i hope you continue to post...its okay to post even if you have a fam member who plays on a team...i use to do it and i also use to roller skate (yup the roller skates have been put away )

You did?  Hmmpph, you could have fooled me. 

I don't think anyone is discouraging Fano from posting, the more the merrier.  Just be cool about shilling for your family. 

totally agree unless zoro comes back cuz there was a lot of entertainment in his aunt's posts

[fanofball]

Thanks for the warm welcome.  I will continue to post, just dont expect a reply everyday.  As far as whether or not I am a family member, I guess that is for you to decide.  Since I never said I was or was not, and it seems to amuse all of you,  have fun with it.  I did watch the feed the other night, most of it anyway, and will have to say I thought the "trailblazer" (blake nickname, nice btw) did ok, the 3s seemed to be needed at the time and created a momentum shift for HU.  He took a couple charges, and had couple Asst at crucial times as well.   The thing I see with HU, is their (a few players) inability to make good decisions, or for that matter, take care of the ball when a game gets tight.  Fouling a 3pt shooter in closing seconds.....? (I also found the feed from their first pre-season game) It appears they should have won that game too  but decision making again (possibly the pressure?) was horrible,  losing valuable possesions.  So, for the sake of HU fans, I hope that isnt a sign of future games, or you will have a looooong season of leads, and losses down the stretch.  Game the other night was a fortunate win I think, that late call for a flagrant was odd, and I dont think Ive ever seen it called in such a tightly contested game, especially on the road......a foul and TO maybe, but 4FTs and possession sealed the deal, very fortunate.  One last thing.....rollerskating wasnt my thing, too busy playing sports!

[huhoops]

Thanks for the warm welcome.  I will continue to post, just dont expect a reply everyday.  As far as whether or not I am a family member, I guess that is for you to decide.  Since I never said I was or was not, and it seems to amuse all of you,  have fun with it.  I did watch the feed the other night, most of it anyway, and will have to say I thought the "trailblazer" (blake nickname, nice btw) did ok, the 3s seemed to be needed at the time and created a momentum shift for HU.  He took a couple charges, and had couple Asst at crucial times as well.   The thing I see with HU, is their (a few players) inability to make good decisions, or for that matter, take care of the ball when a game gets tight.  Fouling a 3pt shooter in closing seconds.....? (I also found the feed from their first pre-season game) It appears they should have won that game too  but decision making again (possibly the pressure?) was horrible,  losing valuable possesions.  So, for the sake of HU fans, I hope that isnt a sign of future games, or you will have a looooong season of leads, and losses down the stretch.  Game the other night was a fortunate win I think, that late call for a flagrant was odd, and I dont think Ive ever seen it called in such a tightly contested game, especially on the road......a foul and TO maybe, but 4FTs and possession sealed the deal, very fortunate.  One last thing.....rollerskating wasnt my thing, too busy playing sports!

No wonder the kid took 9 threes in 15 minutes of play and 5 of them over a 1 minute 20 second span of the game, he's got a yahoo like you encouraging it!!! Listen, I'm all for shooters, especially in an offense like HU's that gets redundant without shooters on the floor breaking up the monotony, but this kid has no filter. He took 2 good shots on Saturday, and made them both. They were passes that came from the inside out or in rhythm on the break. All of the other threes were WAY too quick or WAY too contested. It would be a dream to be a shooter at a school like HU because the penetration comes two or three times, packs the defense, and boom--open jumper. But come on man, there are kids all over the league that can shoot, so this kid is by no means a rarity or deserving of any undue hype.

One thing I thought was very telling in your initial post was that there was no mention of shooting percentage from high school  You're bound to get a fish if you spend all day throwing bait in the river  

[fanofball]

now a yahoo.....ok, I can see newbies arent welcome on this forum, thats fine.  So I will close with this.  Bad shooting nights happen to all players.  Since my opinions here are viewed as biased, just take the time to visit maxpreps, apparantly I am too close to the situation to offer an unobjective view.    Ask  Jones at Kentucky,  Ross at Wa, they (3 time 5A state champs, and probable NBA futures)  lost to his HS team, because of his ability to take over a game.  He is not, I repeat,.. not the next MJ.  But on a D111 team, that appears to need another scoring threat, I would say again, HU got a player that can make a positive impact, and open things up for their big kid in the middle.  Hopefully for him, all works out well, and his play speaks for itself.  As time goes by, its very simple, Im either right about him, or wrong.  My money is on being right