MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Retired Old Rat]

Regarding the rushing the court, I think it was a combination of factors.  Unexpected win, based on the previous two meetings.  Dramatic ending to the game.  The current Johnnie players and students had never experienced a play off win.  Hostile Augsburg crowd.  (Not a judgement, a fact.  Homecourt should have its advantages).  Most of the students, I believe, came down from the Ville on a bus, if you know what I'm sayin.

This was, for me, the most exciting Johnnie game I can remember since 1978, when Kevin McKenzie's dad was a junior point guard and I was dressing like a Tommie cheerleader.  I liked that the Augie crowd was really into it.  Made for a great atmosphere.

If I go to the game at Gustavus I will be standing in the corner, as close as I can to the court, so that the refs can hear me better.  I've got valuable input.  And so I can be the first one to RTC after the upset win. 

[miacsuperfan]

do i detect a bit of 'whistling in the dark' from maniac's "I think UST go(t) the matchup  they prefer(r)ed in Bethel?" 

man, i'm having a hard time imagining why coach tauer or anyone who is paying attention would want bethel right now instead of SJU!!  yes the johnnies beat the tommies twice this year (how DID they do that?), but there is no way they are going to do it three times.  add that to the fact that the royals are flat out playing the best ball of anyone in the league for the last month (small hiccup vs. an unconsciously hot UST) while defeating GAC and STO convincingly on the road in pressure packed 'playoff' games.  i would want NO PART of these guys right now!   

[Drake Palmer]

do i detect a bit of 'whistling in the dark' from maniac's "I think UST go(t) the matchup  they prefer(r)ed in Bethel?" 

man, i'm having a hard time imagining why coach tauer or anyone who is paying attention would want bethel right now instead of SJU!!  yes the johnnies beat the tommies twice this year (how DID they do that?), but there is no way they are going to do it three times.  add that to the fact that the royals are flat out playing the best ball of anyone in the league for the last month (small hiccup vs. an unconsciously hot UST) while defeating GAC and STO convincingly on the road in pressure packed 'playoff' games.  i would want NO PART of these guys right now!   

Supe – are you sure you're not reading my notes? I had to get the image of last night's post game spectacle out of my head before I moved onto Mose and his comments.  There is no way anyone wants to play Bethel.  They're not merely winning; they're playing hardnosed basketball, going on the road and crushing people.   First, a 68-52 beat down of Gustavus at St. Peter.  In that game the Royals shot 50.9% from the floor while holding the Gusties to 38.9%.  They beat Gustavus on the boards 34-30, and in the TO game the Royals had 7 TOs while the Gusties had 13 TOs.

Against the Oles they won 77-58 while making 48.4% of their shots and the Oles really struggled as they shot 32%. In the rebound department, once again the Royals (Bethel Bullies) dominated as they grabbed 42 boards to the Oles 35. 

And this is one area where the Royals really shine – on the boards. Last night Kellan Dahlquist, Bethel's PG tied with Taylor Hall for the game high in rebounds as they both snared 10 rebounds.  Now mind you, this is from a 6-2 PG.  Four of the five starters had 5 or more rebounds. Hall & Dahlquist had 10 each, while Daniel Baah & Kyle Zimmermann had 5 each.  That's good work.  This is not an aberration, these Royals play some defense.  They led the league in defensive FG percentage as they held teams to 41.2% from the floor.

One thing the Royals aren't beating teams with is the long ball. In the upset win over Gustavus they only took 8 3pt FGA & made 2 for 25%, and against the Oles they were 5-20. For the season they were 8th in the league with 3FG attempts as they only took 236, but shot a respectable 35.2& from behind the arc as they made 83 for the year.  To paraphrase an old Buick commercial – this is not your father's Bethel team anymore.

The area where I think the Tommies may have an edge is in team quickness, and outside shooting.  If UST can shoot unconscious jumpers like the last time they played Bethel, the Tomcats will be alright. But if UST is shooting like they did in the first match up with Bethel, it could be a Tums type of night for the Tommie faithful and Bethel backers.  In the first Bethel UST game, a 69-68 victory for the Royals, the Tommies shot 38.9% from the floor while the Royals shot 49% from the floor. This is one "big" game where the Royals actually shot the 3-ball well. 7-13 3FGA for 53.8% while the Tommies shot 4-16 3FGA for 25%.

So here's my prediction:  Under 40% shooting by the Tommies, Bethel wins. Over 40% shooting by UST, Tommies win.  I think I might drive to St. Peter to see the Johnnies –Gustie game to see the Burns road show part II and see how many middleaged guys rush the court at the end of the game.  Don't pull any hamstrings old guys!
 

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

Supe & DP-- you both underestimate one VERY important thing. I will be dining @ Kim's to the tune of a half fried chicken dinner.  

[TommieHoops4Life]

On behalf of Johnnie fans everywhere, my apologies for the behavior of Burns senior.  Very embarrassing.  I feel bad for Andy on this one.  Thankfully for Andy, he ended up being the hero of the game.

I believe the term we are looking for here is "act like you've been there before." The fact that Johnnie fans rushed the court is an embarrassment in itself. One would think a school with the type of football tradition they have would know better. And for a parent to be a part of something like that is nothing short of unacceptable if what's on here is to be true.

Exciting win? Absolutely. Court rushing worthy? Not even close.

Both games Friday are very intriguing, should be a great night of basketball.

[gustie12]

I don't know that we should exclude parents from RTC.    ---The only restriction I would advocate for is when the RTC is used as an excuse to taunt the opposing team or fans as may have happened this fall when the Auggies were on the other side of the upset at Clemens.

Good point AO. Not that this justifies it at all, but there was some taunting by the Augsburg players directed at SJU fans seated in the endzone after the miracle finish this fall. Given the number of SJU students sitting in those seats, I'm not surprised it carried over into this BB matchup.

Should be some great games to finish things out. I'm pulling for two upsets and the rare 5-6 matchup for the title. It's definitely been a crazy finish to the season!

If Bethel beats UST on Friday, I think Westlund might pull off the unlikely COY award. He'd have beaten three of the other most likely candidates H2H in three straight road games. Big if, but it'd make his second half finish that much more impressive.

I have no problem whatsoever with students rushing the court, but keeping Csid's perspective in mind - this was simply a quarterfinal playoff win, not a win over a nationally ranked opponent, a bitter archrival, miracle 1st place finish etc.  And as so many posters are fond of disparagingly commenting –the team the Johnnies beat was only "lowly Auggie Tech."  Plus, aren't the big, bad, Johnnies used to bullying their way through most athletic endeavors?  Given the number of times and years the Johnnies have manhandled most of the league in football, last fall's epic upset football win by Augsburg and post game celebration is to be understood.  The big dog always has a target on his back - Johnnies in football, Gusties and Tommies in basketball. Obviously, the post football game celebration was not appreciated by Johnnie fans, but Augsburg earned the win, and the right to celebrate. 

On the other hand RTC by parents for the express purpose of taunting?!?  Give me a break. We're supposed to be role models.  I'm just glad the Augsburg students displayed more maturity than a middle aged, former jock living his life out vicariously through his son.

I'm hoping there's still a breath of creativity left in the Gustie student body.  With two days to prepare, they should be able create some great cheers, banners, and posters and give Mr. Tom Burns a nice, warm Gustie welcome on Friday night...and throughout the game.   Perhaps ROR or someone else at the game can provide a post game report Friday night/ Saturday morning. 

HAHAHAHAHA! Funny you mention that because the Gustie students did their research and found out Mr. Tom Burns' son, Andy, ran into a little trouble with the law in the past year....we'll just leave it at that. Anticipate many chants, jeers and cheers. I wonder if Mr. Burns will handle himself like he did at the Augsburg game? ;-)

[VOJ]

Fellas...

I did not see what happened at the end of the game other than a group of kids who won a game at the buzzer jumping around and celebrating a win over a team that had gotten the better of them twice this year and won 6 in a row against them at Si Melby.  Did many pick SJU for the Final 4 of the MIAC...probably not.  I guess they should have just went back to the locker room or up in the stands behind the J's bench.  It was a last second win in a tense atmosphere where the season continues if you win or your afternoons open up if you lose. 

I don't know what Mr. Burns did, I am not here to defend it or pile on, just offer perspective.  I do understand the frustration factor boiling over for those involved in the taunting of Andy Burns.  I know if it was my son that was the subject of the taunts it would be hard not to stick it in the faces of those riding him all game.  Drake, Maniac, ROR and others are you telling me you would have not been a little upset that your child was getting targeted all game?  You can say you would not have acted out, but it is pretty easy to say that without having it happen to you.

Truth be told I was a little annoyed at what was being chanted as well, must be my red colored glasses or as maniac so eloquently put it: "despite the fact I allegedly have some red bias"?  When I first heard it I thought it was much more derogatory, glad it was not,  but be that as it may, those who buy the tickets have a license to say what they want.  Augsburg students supporting their classmates were trying to get the one of the Johnnies top players off his game which some may say worked for a while but he kept making plays in the second half as his 14 points and 6 assists indicate.  According to his comments after the game, the taunting contributed to his motivation late.  He said he told Coach Smith he wanted the ball...and then he hit the shot that won the game over the leading shot blocker in the MIAC, Cory Polta. 

Remember these guys are the truest form of student-athlete, they aren't on athletic scholarships, not embarking on a pro career but they are out there in the public to get jeered or cheered.

So should Andy Burns be able to walk into a classroom at Augsburg of one of those students who chanted at him and when they get a paper back with a C or D grade on it...chant "D-student", or "loser"?  Just something to think about.

In light of the recent comment on the board from Gustie12 I can only imagine what he will face tonight.  Just more motivation, I guess.

Maniac it was good to see you Wednesday night, I know I won't see you tonight...have fun.  ROR and other posters, if you get there early enough, come up to the press box and say hello. 

One more thing...I think the coaches wanted extra days to prepare for the playoffs, especially those who play in the quarterfinals, I also think the potential doubling up reason entered into it, where on a Tuesday or Thursday night the women would have to play at 5:15 rather than showcased at 7:30.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

VOJ-
If my son was heckled like Burns was, yes, I'd be more than a little upset about it. However, I am certain there is NO WAY I'd attempt to deal with it in the immature, childish and embarrassing way Daddy Burns did. Not only did he make a total fool of himself, but he made SJU and the rest of the parents/alum look bad.

I do find much of you angst to be extremely ironic, coming from someone associated with "Red Nation" which for decades has taken a perverse pride in its Rat Pack and their "creative" cheering and jeering/mocking/taunting of opponents. Gotta love the irony of whining about opposing students chanting "airball" (which accurately described several of AB's earlier shots) from someone whose allegiance is with a school where students and alum take pride in chanting "tommies suck" and other such unsportsmanlike "cheers". 

As you pointed out, the heckling gave AB motivation to make the final shot

and yes, it was good to see you Weds, and no you wont see me tonight. Too bad the games arent at the same facility.

[VOJ]

Point taken Maniac...the Rat Pack is not what it used to be and to be perfectly honest I totally forgot about them.  They are approaching the "wake the echoes" status that Notre Dame football now is.

Like I said earlier I didn't see what others are describing, just providing a little perspective on the situation.  Red glasses are optional...but encouraged. 

[Drake Palmer]

Point taken Maniac...the Rat Pack is not what it used to be and to be perfectly honest I totally forgot about them.  They are approaching the "wake the echoes" status that Notre Dame football now is.

Like I said earlier I didn't see what others are describing, just providing a little perspective on the situation.  Red glasses are optional...but encouraged. 

And once again, the great MIAC purple and red media giants meet in the middle and shake hands.  Point, counterpoint, done. Well played gentlemen. +K

...I do find much of you angst to be extremely ironic, coming from someone associated with "Red Nation" which for decades has taken a perverse pride in its Rat Pack and their "creative" cheering and jeering/mocking/taunting of opponents. Gotta love the irony of whining about opposing students chanting "airball" (which accurately described several of AB's earlier shots) from someone whose allegiance is with a school where students and alum take pride in chanting "tommies suck" and other such unsportsmanlike "cheers"... 

and yes, it was good to see you Weds, and no you wont see me tonight. Too bad the games aren't at the same facility. (smirk)

What a fantastic idea!  Wouldn't it be great if the team that won the regular season title got to host the league semis and final championship game! All those schools' fans and boosters crowded into one facility sharing brotherly love and affection. I could join arm in arm with OMB and sing Kumbaya.  I swear they would have to cart me out in a stretcher.  The adrenaline rush would be awesome! 

[Retired Old Rat]

As my handle here indicates, I was a Rat before everything was so P.C.  We were brutal.  One of my favorites is when St. Thomas had a player (I'm sure Maniac will remember his name) who was something like 30 years old (ancient) and balding.  Every time he touched the ball, we were yelling "old man."  He'd smirk and then hit a short jumper.  We had fun.  Just like the Augie kids were having fun.

Yes, the never ending chants of "air ball" were very annoying.  If it was my kid, I'd be even more annoyed.  Probably pissed.    This isn' t D1, but it's not high school either.  The ferver of the Augie fans added to the excitement of the game.  (Note:  I did think the air ball thing got old.  I'd like to think that back in the day we were a little more creative and would have come up with something new at some point in the game.)  I think Andy responded perfectly.  He played hard, didn't react to the chants.  Then he won the game with a gutsy play, and celebrated with his team mates and school mates on the court.  You could see and feel the air come out of the Augie players and fans.  Perfect ending to an exciting night.  That is where I wish the story had ended.  Let the Augie fans chant air ball until the sun comes up. 

I'm in favor of the kids having fun and pushing the envelope a little.  But keep it about the kids.

[GoldandBlueBU]

Couldn't agree with you more about the airball chant in general.  I had season tickets in the gopher's student section a few years ago when a friend was a senior at the U.  I would cringe anytime an opponent shot an airball, as I knew I would have to listen to that annoying chant every time he touched the ball for the rest of the game.  Gag.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

ROR- you guys were brutal, but for the most part harmless. Same with the Auggie kids-- loud, annoying, but essentially harmless.  One would think that, by the time his kid is a senior, a parent would become immune for the most part to the student sections. AB fed off the heckling, which as G&B pointed out got old fast (at least the old tyme Rats were creative...which reminds me, ROR were you the one who swiped the ref's hat that nearly got a game forfeited? ).

[Retired Old Rat]

Never touched a ref or opposing player.  Opposing fans and cheerleaders, I plead the 5th.

Did show up with 3 or 4 buddies at old O'Shaugnessey once with hard hats that had rotating hazard lights on top.

[hazzben]

So should Andy Burns be able to walk into a classroom at Augsburg of one of those students who chanted at him and when they get a paper back with a C or D grade on it...chant "D-student", or "loser"? 

Not unless he's going to to walk into the classroom and cheer like crazy every time a Johnnie gets an A on a paper 

It's sports. You play, knowing your fans will cheer and your opponents will jeer. It's part of what makes it competitive and great. I fed off it, both ways. And to be honest, as fun as it was hearing my fans cheer, it was way more fun to have opponents talk smack and then get to stick it in their face with a great play and especially a win. Burns got to do both the other night. At the end of the day thought, there's nothing more satisfying than just winning. I think most guys are much more concerned about that than any of the stuff that goes on from the fans.