MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Willy Wonka]

That's what time the womens game started last year, so there was little reason to think it wouldn't be reversed this season.

However, I'm surprised the league kept it this way. Unless the powers-that-be overruled the statement last year, it was supposed to be a trial run I believe. Has anyone heard of a vote taking place about this subject?

In talking to Hanson (who voted for it in a miscommunication) and funbb's favorite coach (who was the lone vote against it in the first place) about the situation last season, it sounded like nearly every mens coach in the league hated the arrangement. I know the GAC women hated playing so early as well, but can't speak for the rest of the league.

I wonder if the men got outvoted by the womens side, who wanted to force the men into the same situation they dealt with last year before dumping the system? Playing in an empty gym where parents can't even make it in time isn't conducive to a lively atmosphere.

Besides, think of the safety of the students. Now they have to start drinking 3 hours earlier, making for a LONG night afterwards

[sumander]

Being a relative newcomer to the league and a SJU follower a question for anyone. Do the men's and women's teams from other schools travel together? I was under the impression that when the men wer at home the women were visiting the same schoold the men hosted.

[Willy Wonka]

Sumander - That was the case up until last season. The MIAC decided to go with girl-guy doubleheaders, with the women playing the de facto JV game all year. It looks like the roles will be reversed this season. Of course, SJU/CSB is basically exempt from this arrangement given their ever-changing affiliations to suit their desires (note my hint of jealousy).

The move was done to, hypothetically, save money. When the women often ended up bringing its JV team to play the first leg of the triple header, the extra bus involved meant very little money was saved, if any. The boys JV programs basically got cut, as they played opposite the varsity and were only loosely affiliated with the top program. In the past, GAC, UST, BET and SJU have all had solid JVs who contributed mightily to the varsity.

As a girl, what do you think is more disheartening: playing early and having very few fans in the stands or playing late, and having the bulk of the fans leave as you warm up?

[sumander]

Thanks Willy.

I presume the " powers that be" would mean the AD's from the respective schools. They must be smoking something funny to come up with this one. Granted, in most cases the gates are not a meaningful revenue source. By going to this theyare ensuring that they won't be. People might have thought about attending an "intriguing" match up. With this start time that option is lost.

[piperinsider]

What Reusse reports is correct. On the Hamline website, the 06-07 schedule is up, with the only 7:30 start time at home against SJU on Jan. 15. This is a bad move by the MIAC, one I am going to give DPM an ear full. Well, I'm sure there will be a line of fans.

Hamline plays non-conferences game with Mankato State University (D2), Northwestern, St. Scholastica, and two games in the Colorado-Pueblo tournament in November. I sure would like to see the conference season shortened to 17-18 games, thus giving teams a few more non-conference dates. It's nice to see other teams sometimes.

[Drake Palmer]

...I wonder if the men got outvoted by the womens side, who wanted to force the men into the same situation they dealt with last year before dumping the system? Playing in an empty gym where parents can't even make it in time isn't conducive to a lively atmosphere.

Besides, think of the safety of the students. Now they have to start drinking 3 hours earlier, making for a LONG night afterwards

As one of my favorite sports figures once said -



"You can't possibly be serious!!"

Mebbe I can get one of our WIAC posters to chime in on this issue.  I think they've been subjected to this torture the last couple of years.

Nothing against the fairer sex, but this arrangement sucks. Hopefully this idea hits the compost heap next year.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

The start time issue was (very quietly) made public in May. My understanding is that the men's coaches voted overwhelmingly for it, as did the ADs and that the women's coaches were solidly (possibly unanimously) opposed...from the sounds of things, it is the second and final year of a 2-year trial that no one much cares for.

The alleged transportation cost savings went out the window midseason as many, not all, of the teams began traveling separately by gender, as it was ridiculous to pull both M & W teams out around 3 pm, bus them to wherever, and not get any of them back to campus till 11pm or later.

It is hard to compare MAIC & WIAC on this, as WIAC has many games where the drive is roughly equal to MSP-Moorhead, so it does make sense there.

The double header idea is asking a lot from the parents, many of whom are helping finance their son/daughters education, to make a 545 tip-off.

This is one time Brown v Board of Education is incorrectly applied-- its case when separate IS equal.

[sumander]

MM, In your opinion, why would the men's coaches have voted overwhelmingly in favor of the change. To me that doesn't make sense.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

Sumander, my guess is for the same reason they like playing in the afternoon on Sats....it gives them evenings free.  Just a hunch. I miss the Sat 730 tipoffs.

I think after a few 545 starts in front of much smaller crowds than in the past (altho its hard to get smaller than 92 in attendance for one game at SMU last winter) and dealing with more than a few irate parents (like women's coaches put up with last year), they will agree to scuttle the idea in 07-08

[sumander]

From a recruiting standpoint I would think the early start would be a debacle.

[Willy Wonka]

Unless you're a Johnnie/Bennie, since it doesn't change a thing for their home games.

[SofaKing]

This whole topic irritates me. It all goes back to title 9 and I am always up for a debate on that subject.

The girls coaches and players will not like this change at all once (as someone said earlier) the fans leave during warm-ups. Plus, most people like to have the main event of the night be the last event of the evening. Not, to top off the night with some boring, slow paced, unathletic basketball.

Actually, I dont think the programs should even be connected. The men should have their own schedule and the woman should have their own. It should be played like the playoffs, where the woman would play on one night and the men on another.

They should not shorten the conference schedule, but allow more games in general. DI teams play 30some games every year. This year at Gonzaga we played 33. My senior year at Concordia, we played 26 and made it to the conference semis. Playing more non-conference games would be a huge opportunity for all teams in the MIAC.

[Pat Coleman]

The MIAC has no control over that, however -- only a full vote of the NCAA Division III membership can authorize extending the D-III basketball season beyond the 25 regular-season games it currently has.

[funbballer]

JDowney....you are right on, brother. The only silver lining is that we can get home and watch more of "Big Monday" on ESPN and do something likewise on Wednesday's.

I think the women will be embarrassed when fans leave after the men's game is completed. It's too bad, but that's the realilty of it all.

Sorry, Wonka, I know you've got sisters who play the game, but for most guys, this new setup just doesn't cut it. (and "my favorite" coach voted for this? well, if he can't coach, at least he knows how to vote!!)

[bethelguy]

The boys JV programs basically got cut, as they played opposite the varsity and were only loosely affiliated with the top program. In the past, GAC, UST, BET and SJU have all had solid JVs who contributed mightily to the varsity.

WW - that's not entirely true.  GAC, UST, Bet, SJU and SMU (for part of the year) all had JV programs last year.  And all of them except GAC got a full 18 game JV schedule in (or really close to 18 games).  None of the JV coaches liked the situation as it made it much harder to find times to play games and the JV programs were (as you said) less affiliated with the varsity programs.  UST and BU both had players in last years' JVs that you will see contributing to their respective varsities as soon as this year.  GAC had a down year in their JV, but I would expect them to be as competitive as they have been in the past.

In the past Ham, Aug, Car, Mac and STO have had teams but not consistently.  Hamline and Aug usually had teams but their lack of a JV in 2005-06 was more attributed to new coaching staffs rather than the new scheduling.  Mac, Car and STO have problems attracting the numbers to field a JV, but they have had teams in the past.

Over a few more years I could see this making JV programs more work than they are worth, but for now the teams who have been committed to JVs in the past are still putting forth the money and effort.  And hopefully we will see Hamline and Auggie returning to the JV action.

As far as the varsity programs saving money, most of the teams took separate busses for the men and women anyway, except for the 3 furthest games for Twin Cities schools.  I know that when St. Olaf came to BU their men and women took separate busses.  So I wonder how much money was actually saved?