MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[ustbumkneez]

These are basically all derivatives of opinions echoed by Drake, Mig, Mob or Larry U, but bear with me. Carroll WON the game, it was not GIVEN to them by St Thomas, I completely agree. I do think that, for a veteran squad who had played in 2 prior NCAA tourney games, this was not a representative showing. They didnt have their best, and I think that comes from two threads of the same theme: mental toughness.

1:Carroll pushed the tempo of the game, took advantage of every slip UST made, manufactured opportunities when they really needed buckets, and, most importantly, played the game that allowed them to win the MWC Tournament, and at Augustana in the first round. Its the style theyve won with all year; fast paced, perimeter heavy basketball. St Thomas bit on the enticement of playing full court basketball, stepped out of their element and comfort zone, and tried to beat their opponent at their own game. Gone was the half court discipline that began from the inside-out, the willingness to grind out possessions, and the control and dictation of tempo that won UST a MIAC Championship and national accolades. With that in mind, is it really that surprising that UST lost the game? Tournament time is not the point of the season to lose your identity as a team, its the time to acknowledge what you do well as a ballclub, and embrace that which has won you games.

2:Rarely do you lose when, as a team, you shoot 56% from the field for a game. Even more rare is it to lose a game when your best, and most dominant, player shoots 90%. Though, youd probably expect a player of this caliber to have more than 10 attempts. I understand that Carroll often swarmed 3 guys to Rosefelt as the ball entered the post, sometimes even before. Some are going to tell you that nullified him as a scoring option, and that would be false. Perhaps they were in the lavatory throughout the 2nd half when he didnt miss a shot, including 4 dunks amongst his 6 makes. The real story? Poor entry passes. Yes it was hard to directly enter into Rosefelt, Carroll wasnt going to make it easy for an All American to touch the ball-they are a smart club, but theres a 35 second shot clock and you have a dead eye 3 pt shooter and an excellent passing big man to open the floor. Instead the Tommies would force the pass within the first 10 seconds, and Robinson, arguably their worst passer, was generally in charge of feeding Rosefelt. I dont buy that the Carroll defense dictated the Tommies look elsewhere for points in the 2nd half, because Rosefelt found a way to get to the rim even with 2-3 Pioneers draped on him. He found ways to score, unfortunately for the Tommies, he wasnt given ample opportunities.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

It sounds like the losses by both of the MIAC reps were not pretty Saturday. I don't think many of us- if any- gave SJU a chance vs UWSP...it sounds like hey played better than most of us expected, but the better team won.

Having been there, I know the one in The Shoe was far from a good game. Carroll did a good job exploiting UST's weaknesses, they were a half step or so quicker, resulting a reduced defensive performance and a boatload of fouls. Their pressure on "D" forced an ungodly number of turnovers as well. All in all, UST did not play at the level they showed they are capable of; instead, they played at the level that led to near losses at Augs and vs. Mac before Xmas. A very disappointing end to a good season. (Bumkneez—your scouting report was dead-on...Fritz needs to hire you as a scout). The Carroll coaching staff did a great job prepping their team for the game, and as Bumkneez

stated, they WON the game, it was not handed to them.

To a point, I will agree with Jimmy C about the coaching...Fritz never has been much for outward displays of emotion. They happen, but they are rare. That doesn't mean he isn't intense about winning and it doesn't mean his players don't get motivated by him. I highly doubt you will find a coach who is more respected by his peers and the officials than Fritz. Coaches who spend a lot of energy barking at the refs aren't doing their team any good, at least not based on the current and former refs I've spoken with. If any of you have or do ref, what's your take on this—does a coach who is riding you from tip to final whistle help or hurt his team?

Yes, WW, I stand by my comments that this is one of the better UST teams I've seen. To change that belief based solely on one game—even the final game of the season – would be wrong. While the final loss may tarnish the memory to a degree, it doesn't diminish the talent and ability. To knock UST's team for losing Sat would be like saying your senior year team wasn't one of GAC's finest... after all, they too lost at home to a team they were favored to beat.


VOJ-- I assume you made similar "protect the home front" remarks after Hamline visited SJU in the playoffs last year. 

[ustbumkneez]

Id like to congratulate this years Tommie class on stellar careers. They are a great contingent of ballplayers, but, more importantly, a phenomenal group of people. It has been my pleasure to play with them as a teammate, and watch them as an alumnus and fan. Youve done the Arches proud guys, and shown, in every capacity, what Tommie basketball is all about. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

VOJ, that is the beauty of editing and re-takes.  However, if you watch closely, Jimmy actually does miss a shot when he is shooting by himself out back of the school on that dirt court (or maybe it is clay-Wimbledon ancestor???)  Anyway, after burying shot after shot, he finally misses as the camera starts to pan away.  I guess they had to make him look human.  But his shooting was impressive none the less.  I love that picket fence.  My favorite quote besides "The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass everyday, but, mister you ain't seen a ray of light since you got here" come from that picket fence sequence.  After the timeout, coach Norman Dales says, "Now, boys, don't get caught watchin' the paint dry!"  It never gets old.  I think that Ollie should have taken the grandma-style shot off the picket fence.  He could have been the X-factor, but I guess they didn't end up needing him. 

[sumander]

Now with regards to the MIAC vs WIAC...who knows...but this leads into a story about a conversation after the J's loss at Stevens Point...

...how about a MIAC vs the Cheese challenge?  Make it a two year agreement to start with...the 11 MIAC teams host the WIAC, plus two other schools from Wisconsin...either Carthage and Lawrence, St. Norbert, Beloit, Carroll, whoever can fill out the cheese side so that its equal numbers.

VOJ, Over on the WIAC board last week they were talking about a similar arrangement between the WIAC and the CCIW. Speculation there was it would never happen. My guess is the same odds would have to apply here!

What are your thoughts on the Point team? I was very impressed with them!

[sumander]

I understand that Carroll often swarmed 3 guys to Rosefelt as the ball entered the post, sometimes even before. Some are going to tell you that nullified him as a scoring option, and that would be false. Perhaps they were in the lavatory throughout the 2nd half when he didnt miss a shot, including 4 dunks amongst his 6 makes.

Kneez, That is really interesting, because as I watched Point double and triple down on C. Schafer, I wondered to myself, if a more athletic center such as Ike would have been able to counter this by kicking the ball back out. Taking nothing away from Craig, he just didn't look capable/comfortable reacting to the double or triple. I thought Ike kicking it to Schnettler or Keating might have been the key. I guess we will never know.

[Touchdown Tommy]

Sumander: You are being forever memorialized in Touchdown Tommy's doghouse for allowing your offspring to attend USTD.  I mean I really can't think of anything more despicable.  You now have me wondering if she is the "typical" Tommie girl.

[sumander]

Sumander: You are being forever memorialized in Touchdown Tommy's doghouse for allowing your offspring to attend USTD.  I mean I really can't think of anything more despicable.  You now have me wondering if she is the "typical" Tommie girl.

TDT, I will GUARANTEE she is not your typical Tommie Girl!

[Drake Palmer]

You would think with all the activity on the board tonight we were in the middle of January!  I guess in many respects we all hated to see the season end so abruptly.
**************
VOJ, excellent idea, but like Sum says it may be difficult to pull it off.  The only WIAC teams the MIAC seem to schedule with any regularity is UWRF & in recent years, UW-LAX.  It's too bad some of the WIAC's stronger teams - SP, Oshkosh, & Whitewater are located on the eastern  side of the state.
*******************
Kneez - post of the week! +K when time permits.  JChitwood - yours wasn't bad either. 

A couple of game/season observations & or opinions.

*Ike seem to do a better job of kicking the ball out of double teams last year.

*What happened to the little high-low action I saw Ike & Mike run in the last couple of games?

*The high ball screen & roll (this seemed to be a staple in the UST repertoire last year & was MONEY!!)

[Russian Mig AK47]

Wow, Bumkneez, you know you could have asked me to toot your horn for you... so you didn't have to so shamelessly.  Nevertheless, congrats on the Nostradamus-esque scouting report.  Surely this merits some sort of solicitations for scouting positions within the ranks of collegiate athletics? (man I love alliteration!).

Jimmy Chitwood, the content of your posts is dynamite.  You must pick up on the intricacies of the game from the legendary savvy basketball minds of the people you watch with.  Now if we could only get you to construct a post that reads easily, you'd be set.  I find flashy bold and glowing names and comments keeps your readers attention and also makes them smile.  Unless they are color blind, but I've got no time for those people. 

VOJ, I was by no way insinuating that the UST bench had been prolific, or even productive, throughout the season.  Simply that if they had played like they did against SJU, they would have done their team a great service.  But, as many others have commented they were extreme liabilities on the court so they were not viable options to give the starters a blow.  I was/am not interested in throwing blame at anyone.  Carroll just flat out beat them.  BTW if you want to play spades, I am up for it.

[Jimmy Chitwood]

     To echo the sentiment by Bumkneez, a devastating aspect of the Tommies loss was their inability to get the ball into Ike.  Either the passes were too tall for Ike to handle or they were just plain awful attempts to feed the ball between 8 swatting hands.  Regardless the turnovers proved to be costly down the stretch.  I am going to take it one step further and say that even more overwhelming than the entry passes to Ike were the unforced turnovers caused by the Tommies in transition.  I don't know how many times the Pioneers would come down and miss a quick shot or even turn the ball over themselves, but for some reason the Tommies felt the need to race the ball back up court and try Globetratter type passes to get a quick bucket.  They unecessarily pushed the ball up court, even when the numbers weren't there.  The reason that Ike didn't get a whole lot of touches (besides the poor entry passes) is because the Tommies never got a chance to set up their half court offense due to countless transition turnovers.  I think that the Tommies got so taken in by the Pioneers fast style of play that they in turn felt the need to unecessarily press the court and look to score quick.
  However, the turnovers and poor entry passes are all a result of the underlining issue that we have all touched on: The Tommies loss of identity.  They abandoned their style for a style that they were completely uncomfortable with.  They have never been a transition team that gets the majority of their points by constantly pushing the ball up court.  They have been successful by setting up at half court and looking to get the ball down low, and if that isn't there looking for a perimeter look from Schnettler or a rolling Keating.  They became reactive instead of proactive, and from the opening tip-off, the Pioneers set the tone of the game.  The Tommies forgot what got them there and tried to counteract their opponent by playing the Pioneer's game--a losing equation.  Like Bumkneez said, tourney time is a time to embrace your identity and execute the offense that got you there.  This never happened, and as a result the Tommies weren't ever really able to get on track.  Forgetting their identity was the reason they lost, the turnovers and poor execution were just bi-products of this absense.  This loss would be a whole lot easier to handle if the Tommies lost playing their style of game, at least then they could take comfort in knowing that they stayed true to themselves. 

[Nites]

With that in mind, is it really that surprising that UST lost the game? Tournament time is not the point of the season to lose your identity as a team, its the time to acknowledge what you do well as a ballclub, and embrace that which has won you games.

Yes, it is that surprising that they lost the game because they were a battle scarred veteran ballclub that should NOT have been lulled into playing Carroll's game.  I thought they were mentally tougher than that.  But then again, that's what makes sports fun.  You never know who might win on a given day.  As you said, give the Carroll Pioneers their due!

[Drake Palmer]

Dang fellas (Kneez, Chitwood, Mig) - why y'all bringing all the posting heat now at the end of the season?!?  This is good stuff. 

JC - you pop out of the woodwork today after being gone all season, & Kneez, you show up again in the last couple of weeks.  As with VOJ, I don't necessarily agree with everything you've said, but this is provocative, entertaining stuff. We could have had some nice convo going on between the axis of past & present powers in St. Paul, St. Pete's & St. Johns.

...on that dirt court (or maybe it is clay-Wimbledon ancestor???)

BTW - you got your Grand Slams mixed up. 
Clay court (terra firma) = Roland Garros stadium - the French Open
Grass court = Wimbledon

[Jimmy Chitwood]

Dear AK47,

Being that I am not quite as internet savvy as your displayed skills position you to be, I wouldn't be opposed to a tutorial or walk through on how to turn text colors or insert faces with moving eyes.  Afterall, I like to consider myself a waking Michaelangelo, so colors and drawings are right up my alley.  I just need some direction from a guru like yourself.  As for your comment about the intellects that I watch the games with, well they just so happen to be a couple of guys with drinking problems and/or obsessive desires to bend rules and make lewd comments to anyone with an unclogged ear canal.  Not your typical crew of dissecting analysts.   

[diehardfan]

I agree with VOJ on calling a spade a spade....

That post rivaled a Greg Sager post! lol 

Longest... post... ever! And I thought that post someone made earlier this week somewhere would be the record for a while!