MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[miacsuperfan]

how ironic that k varnsen was mentioning "new lows" when discussion of officiating occured BEFORE last night's game.   pretty prophetic stuff, huh kel?

atmosphere last night?   awesome. 

the "officiating" situation has been well discussed.  i will add nothing to it.  it has all been said.   trevor wittwer is one of about 3 players in this league that i would pay to watch play, and last night i didn't get my money's worth.   

'ten minute' teddy's antics continue to be an insult to all of us who watch and love the game.   

ust has a pretty good team, and joe scott's stock is rising.   after being shut down by the royals on thursday, he came back with a nice game last night.   and lost in all the discussion is the fact that al mc coy is a flat out gamer.   he is primarily responsible for tommies overcoming bu and gac in the tournament.

the year in the miac was unlike any in recent memory.   the equality of the teams was obvious, which became very clear in the two semi-final games.  a total of five points seperated winners and losers in the final three games.   

i hope ust can do some damage in the playoffs, and represent their league with some class.

[abominable_snowman]

It is a new feeling to be upset with a UST championship.  

In the semi's I was loving my tommies. I was way stoked for Bj Viau and the performance he gave.  That to me is what made UST basketball fun.  Classy guys playing hard and earning Ws through grit and discipline.

I don't even want to reward a certain individual's attention seeking behavior, so I won't name him.  But he if he is trying to get a rise out of opponents/coaches/fans/officials, he seems to be effective.  And it is a colossal tragedy since he has the hard-nosed abilities you need in a solid defender.  But there is no reason to put on a show.  

i even appreciate some cockiness in players.  Sean Sweeny and Doug Espenson come to mind.  These were team leaders who were respected by their teammates.   And they were willing to take their respective teams on their backs at times.  And to do that, it helps to have an F-- the world attittude.  But neither would cross the line into ridiculousness.

**********************

I'm also sad about the officiating.  I've spent this last season officiating High School ball.  
1. It is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to be consistent.  
2. At all levels the emphasis has been to clean up rough post play.  You do this by quick early calls when there is rough contact. Push in the back, swinging elbows, etc.  Players will adjust and you should have a clean rest of the game.  I've seen it happen personally.  It is a lot less stressful to get it out of the way early, then to be at the end of the game and having an American Gladiator like brawl in the paint.
3. An official should be invisible.  That is, when it is all said and done, there should be no discussion like the one we are currently having.
4. An official should not tolerate whining.  There is a certain degree in an emotional game to allow players to express some frustration.  That is natural.  But you can tell when it crosses the line to pure BS and just crying.  From a player's perspective it disgusts me when guys go out of their way to whine to officials. First, if you have a good coach, he will be pleading on your behalf.  Second, your job is to play the game.  Your team needs you focused on the task at hand, and not to be having some vendetta against the guys in stripes.

[kel_varnsen]

how ironic that k varnsen was mentioning "new lows" when discussion of officiating occured BEFORE last night's game.   pretty prophetic stuff, huh kel?

Except it wasn't a new low for- for me anyway. I've seen refs give the wrong team the ball after a timeout during the final minute of a close high school sectional playoff game.

[BBTommie]

MAybe there was some contact on the elbow late in the game, but the UST player nearly did a complete backflip on the ensuing flop. It was such a sad play that the UST guy flopped that much and that the official fell for it.

Is there anyone else out there who saw this play from the Tommie end of the floor, where it occured, like I did?  From my distance, you could hear the contact.  From my angle, you could see the head snap back.  If this was a flop, it far surpased anything Brian Cardinal ever did and to me he was the undisputed champion of flopping.

[BBTommie]

Coombe's Track Record With GAC This Season
• Blatantly ignored, then T'd up Hanson on 2/9 against St. Thomas (first T in years)
• Main player in 3 offensive fouls being called against Witter in the same game
• T'd up Paulson on 2/23 against Carleton — a game in which the Gusties outfouled the Carlies by a 2 to 1 margin
• Called all 5 fouls against Wittwer in the MIAC title game, including 4 on the offensive end

Which one was Coombe?  If he was the short, puggy, old, ruddy faced white guy, then yea he definately seems to have a Napolian complex.

[Willy Wonka]

There were three times last night when UST players went flying like they got shot in the face (a completely unnatural reaction, I might add), with contact being extremely questionable in all three situations. Only one was called, and it directly affected the outcome of the game.

The Gustie who got the rebound and cleared himself while Vaiu flew through the air like Neo said he "may have grazed him, if I hit him at all." I feel confident the 'Elbow of God' didn't even leave a mark, though I didn't get a chance to see his face afterwards.

Kudos to snowman for taking a stand against his own team's shenanigans. Tauer looked embarrassed when he shook Hanson's hand afterwards, so I feel like he's probably not the only one to feel that way.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

Coombe's Track Record With GAC This Season
• Blatantly ignored, then T'd up Hanson on 2/9 against St. Thomas (first T in years)• Main player in 3 offensive fouls being called against Witter in the same game
• T'd up Paulson on 2/23 against Carleton — a game in which the Gusties outfouled the Carlies by a 2 to 1 margin
• Called all 5 fouls against Wittwer in the MIAC title game, including 4 on the offensive end

For those keeping track at home, here's the season breakdown for GAC:
In games Coombe didn't work: 19-5, 1 technical
In games Coombe worked: 0-3, 2 technicals

Given the reaction myself and a few other former players had when we saw him, this doesn't seem to be a new phenomenon. With that in mind, at what point can the GAC AD demand that he never be assigned to another Gustie game? It sure seems like something Molde should begin investigating immediately.

WW, while you make a solid case that there seems to be bad blood between Hanson and Coomes, you convenietly left out 2 Hanson Ts in last year's playoff loss @ SJU with no Coomes there (http://gustavus.edu/athletics/mbb/archives/2006-07/stats/sju3.htm ). Maybe last Feb was a "long time", but its also only 25 games or so. Ironically, Spanier was reffing that game too.  But I do agree that Commes is inept.

With all the carping about calls, no one has noticed how Nicolai got whistled 3 times early in the 2nd half on ticky-tack calls. With him out, UST looked frazled and GAC had a chance to pull away.  And Doble in particular got away with some extremely physical play in the paint.

I dont think the refs had it "in" for GAC-- they were simply the most incompetent refs I've seen in a title game, at any level. My suggestion is the next time UST & GAC meet, have AS and Westie call the game  They can't possibly do any worse than Coomes & Spainer.

[kel_varnsen]

We've all heard the story "The Boy Who Cried Wolf." After watching the Tommies shamelessly taking dives for the whole game, it's only natural Gustie fans might assume everything is a flop.

[Willy Wonka]

MM - Technically, that's not correct. Sowden actually got 3 techs in that game — 2 while playing and 1 for sitting on the bench instead of going to the locker room afterwards. Having heard the stories of that night, I'm shocked Hanson didn't choose to join him.

Ticky-tack fouls happen. Just be thankful Nicolai — who underwhelmed, once again — didn't send GAC players flying through the air with his ripped physique.

Garrison was the only competent ref last night, even if he did miss a key call for the Gusties late in the game.

snow and Westie - What is proper reffing etiquette for overruling a call? A GAC assistant said Spanier told them he couldn't do it more than once last night. Is that just to keep from showing up another guy or is that an actual written rule they have to follow?

[dobleismyhero]

Here's a fun fact:
Last night I noticed with about 8 minutes left that the fouls were 7 against st. thomas and 2 against GAC, and I was hoping that the bad calls were finally starting to stop being called.
At the final whistle, the fouls were 7 against st. thomas and 10 against GAC.
gustavus committed the last 8 fouls of the game, and st. thomas was not called for a single foul the last 8 min.

[Drake Palmer]

Again I'll say – it was tough, hard fought game between two talented, proud & elite teams of the MIAC.  I'll comment on this officiating brouhaha & then I'll be quiet.

I absolutely agree with Snow's comments he made about officials establishing the tenor & tone of the game at the outset.  Everyone who's ever played & or coached knows good refs will talk to a player & say something like – "ok, 32, watch that forearm in the back, I'm calling that next time." Or if a situation escalates, he'll take two players or a coach aside, talk to them & give them a warning.  And a good player or team will adjust.  One extreme example when a team didn't adjust was when the St. Thomas played in Moorhead a week or so ago against the Cobbs.  UST was called for 33 fouls compared to the Cobbs 14 fouls.  St. Thomas never made an adjustment in their game.

Thursday's night game against Bethel was a fairly clean game with 16 fouls called on Bethel & St. Thomas.  The refs had good control of the game & none of the extra-curricular stuff happened.  But if a ref is not going to make a call, any good team or player is going to push the rules as far as possible to gain whatever competitive advantage they can.  While I certainly don't condone some of the behavior exhibited by certain players, it was within what the officials were allowing last night. 

My one major disappointment is that in one major "teachable moment" during the first half, the refs totally missed this player's actions - no big surprise, but so did the Tommie coaches.  This player went beyond the boundaries of generally acceptable on-court behavior, but the Tommie coaching staff must have become too caught up in the competitive heat of the moment, failed to discipline this player & left him on the court.  I'd have a hard time believing they didn't see or hear him since it happened right in front of their bench. 

Small, if no consolation to the Gusties or fans, but for all the hue & uproar over the foul count, UST was called for 15 fouls & Gustavus was called for 20 - hardly a major foul disparity.  It should also be noted that Trevor Wittwer must have a transponder or something in his uniform, because he is by far & away the most frequently called foul transgressor on the Gustie team.  He averaged 3.3 fouls per game & fouled out of 6 contests this season. 

[abominable_snowman]

snow and Westie - What is proper reffing etiquette for overruling a call? A GAC assistant said Spanier told them he couldn't do it more than once last night. Is that just to keep from showing up another guy or is that an actual written rule they have to follow?

Officials have zones to cover, and if a call occurs outside of your zone by another official, it is their call.

You can override a call when the call is made in your zone.  Or if it is in a neutral area, or in transfer from one zone to the other.  Generally speaking you have enough to watch in one area of a court, that it would really compromise your own duty to have to babysit one of your crew members.  Common calls I have been part of that are over ruled.  Jump ball vs one player reaching in, charge vs block when the ball is penetrated by a guard from the point into the paint, and out of bounds rulings.

And I have never heard of a limit to overruling calls.

********

Also to clarify my sentiments towards the tommies.  It has been a thrill to see them shatter expectations, and come away with a title after loosing huge contributors.  I will also be rooting for them in their journey into NCAA tourney.  There are some phenomenal guys on that team.  And I'm not going to cast away the lot due to one person, or one game.  They deserve their credit for putting in the hours and their work.  And although this championship game felt a little grimy, there have been plenty of demonstrations of heart throughout the season. I think there is still a great story for this years bunch.  Hopefully the seniors can pull the guys together and we will see this young group of tommies represent the miac well on the national scene.  For better or worse they are our flag bearer. And I feel relatively confident in saying it will be for th e better.  

[Russian Mig AK47]

Hey y'all time for another cameo from the Mig!!!

First of all... 3 IN A ROW BABY!  UST can't stop, won't stop.

Now down to brass tacs...

The officiating was horrible.  For both sides.  That being said, what the hell is wrong with Wittwer?  If you are the MIAC MVP how are you incapable of making an inside move without dipping your shoulder!?  BJ didn't even NEED to flop when the offensive player is nice enough to plant his shoulder right in his chest.  The rules are very clear, and those offensive fouls were not iffy or negotiable.  Even if the refs are out to get you (and they weren't) it is inexcusable to be on the court for 14 minutes in the championship game.  You really have to be smarter than that. 

As far as flopping goes... BJ did flop on that alledged elbow to the face.  Having been on the receiving end of many an elbow to the face, I can assure you that you don't fly in the air and spin 3 times before you hit the ground like a John Woo film, and you usually end up bloody or with a giant shiner.  Embarrassing.  I blame it on the emergence of European players in the NBA (notable exception is AK47, but I guess he is Russian so my point still stands).  Teddy Archer is an embarrassment to UST alum.  I feel a little dirty having him associated with us.  His on court antics are deplorable.  And, let me just say this... when I was playing I didn't even know there was a head ref that critiqued the other refs.  Apparently Archer knew this, as when he was lobbying with the scores table he was telling George (or whatever his name is) that "wasn't right, that wasn't right George.  You gotta do something about this George."  I am adamantly against any player talking to a ref during a game, let alone talking to the head ref.  There is just no purpose for it.  I hope the Big Man kicks him off the team and deports him to Concordia Moorehead.

Now that we have that unpleasantness out of the way, lets focus on the stellar play of Big Al "the real" McCoy... or as I like to call him Danny Fortson Jr. with skill.  He was clutch at all the right times for the Tomcats.  I don't think I have ever seen someone 5'10 265lbs with that much hang time.  He literally floats in the air... gravity defying.  His free throw shooting was impressive as well.  Sam "dreamshake" Eicher was equally sumptuous.  He can shake you with the right or the left, and he knocked down all the open J's from the elbow.  Very impressive.  I thought Joe Scott had a bad game (although somehow he still managed 18 points?!)  Outside of the bomb he dropped at the beginning of the game, from nearly half court, he did not shoot well at all.  BJ Viau played a great all around game.  Outside of the aforementioned flop on the elbow incident.  He really was quick on the defensive end in getting position on Wittwer to take those charges, rebounded, and he also controlled the flow of the game.  And, even though he shot poorly, Tyler Nicolai is a helluva player.  The game flowed so well for the Tomcats when he was in the game.  This was only the second time I have seen him play... but for a freshman he does a remarkable job of playing within himself.  He doesn't make mistakes (outside of that inexplicable decision or maybe execution of the full court pass at the end of the game... we'll chalk that up to freshmaness), and he does a good job of controlling the game from the offensive end.  He is also a pretty nifty defender as well.  I think the MIAC is in trouble for the forseeable future, as the bulk of the Tomcats players are freshman and sophomores.  Yikes!

It was a very exciting game, and the outcome was equally titillating.  Those GAC fans were crazy.  It made for an awesome atmosphere.  Could have done without the "F - St. Thomas" cheer in the beginning, though.  That was tacky.  They were probably just confused... I think at one point they also mistakenly thought The Shoe was their house?  I don't think so.  I hope they enjoyed their drives/rides home.

[MiacLostProphet]

Coming from the mouth of a Gustie Player:
In reference to Coombe: "Every time we get that guy as a ref he seems to have it out for us."  This was said before the playoffs even started.  I got the impression that the whole team felt the same way.  I am with Wonka in saying that Gustavus should ask to not have him officiate games.

McCoy played great, not a big surprise.  The man has got skills.  And I find the majority of the st. thomas team to be good guys.  One bad apple shouldn't ruin the bunch.

Coombe's Track Record With GAC This Season
• Blatantly ignored, then T'd up Hanson on 2/9 against St. Thomas (first T in years)
• Main player in 3 offensive fouls being called against Witter in the same game
• T'd up Paulson on 2/23 against Carleton — a game in which the Gusties outfouled the Carlies by a 2 to 1 margin
• Called all 5 fouls against Wittwer in the MIAC title game, including 4 on the offensive end.

For those keeping track at home, here's the season breakdown for GAC
In games Coombe didn't work:[/b] 19-5, 1 technical
In games Coombe worked:[/b] 0-3, 2 technicals

Let's not ignore Statistics 101 here (sample size), but the bigger question is why would an MIAC official want to intentionally cause Gustavous to lose?  Or why would he be so biased as to distort what he thinks he is seeing?  The problem with these kinds of claims is that I never hear an explanation of why.

BBTommie, you aren't going to get an explanation because no one has talked to Coomes about this.  Unjust claim or not, numbers don't lie.

[big_shocker]

I will admit, the GAC fans left much to be desired. The pre-game chants were pretty awful, and it's been awhile since I've heard any crowd give good chants. As one of my buddies said, you can only use the "you suck" chant so much. Come on, everyone, come up with something better!

Plus, maybe this is just my own individual experience, but some UST fan was taunting my lady-friend, who was sitting a few seats away from me. He was doing the shirt pull (where he shows you where he's from), and constantly giving her grief. I didn't find out about this until after the game, which is good for that kid, or else he would've had a Chuck Norris-style roundhouse kick to the face waiting for him.

So it's not like GAC had a monopoly on unclassy fan support. It just don't seems like they cheer the way they used to.