MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[localcoach]

Drake - Please explain to me why the Knights recruiting class is so good
I will agree that Blaise Davis is a nice player who could make an early impact.  He's intelligent and shoots it well.  The other key addition, IMHO, would be Mr. Grinnell, who is a workhorse, but an undersized (6-4) post player without much range.

The other local players were average Minnesota H.S. players and we know very little about the young men from Washington and Colorado.  Just trying to figure out your logic on this one.

As for Bobby Fong, while I agree he had some up and down streaks last season, he is without question a shooting guard and not a small forward, IMHO.  I think he has excellent range and is deceptively athletic.  Time will tell.

[hoopmaster]

I think the Ole's got a couple of good ones in Fong and Jaryan and they will both be major contributors this year.  I got a chance to watch them both many times and I would describe Fong as a scorer.  He can score in a variety of ways and can be hard to guard.  They will be got options to go along with the two bigs that they are returning. 

Wonka- could you give us some insight to the recruits the Gusties have got.  Maybe it has been mentioned already and I missed. 

I think this was a great recruiting class league wide.  The Tommies, Johnnies, Carlies, Ole's, Bethel and the Auggies all have strong classes coming in.  Bethel and the Auggies have strong transfers.  While the other will have some good freshman.  Other schools may have strong recruiting classes but I have not heard much from the other schools. 

What would you rather want as a coach, one really good player in  your recruiting class or a lot of players who aren't great but you have a chance to develop them into a good team?

[Drake Palmer]

Drake - Please explain to me why the Knights recruiting class is so good
I will agree that Blaise Davis is a nice player who could make an early impact.  He's intelligent and shoots it well.  The other key addition, IMHO, would be Mr. Grinnell, who is a workhorse, but an undersized (6-4) post player without much range.

The other local players were average Minnesota H.S. players and we know very little about the young men from Washington and Colorado.  Just trying to figure out your logic on this one....

In part, my post was an attempted humorous response to your post in which you opined that the Oles might arguably have one of the top two recruiting classes in the MIAC this season.  While I certainly think the Oles have a nice group of recruits this year, until all of the school rosters are released I question whether it's a top 2 recruiting class.

As far as my selection of the Carleton FY class as a top recruiting class goes, it was based on several illogical ideas, or hunches.    One – the Carlies have two likely candidates for the prestigious Palmer All-MIAC All FY Name Team: Kellan McLemore from Colorado & Patrick Philley from Washington.  Secondly, some of you may recall I did a little internet legwork last year & I projected that Chris Schwartz at SJU, & the dearly departed Trey Mullen at Macalester could be impact FY.  At the end of the season Schwartz made the All-FY team, & I 'm convinced if Mullen would have stuck around all year, the Scots would have had a much better season, & Mullen would have been a likely nominee for the MIAC All Freshman team.

Well, I did some additional sleuthing on Colorado native, Kellan McLemore at Carleton & he could fit into that role of non–native Minnesota impact freshman player such as Chris Schwartz & St. Mary's Will Wright.  McLemore played in a very competitive "big school" league in Colorado and according to a friend in Colorado, that metro area of Denver is a hotbed for talented basketball players.  Just a hunch.  Plus, it seems Guy Kalland can get more out of his players than his cross-town rival- Coach K. at St. Olaf.  Every year warts, blemishes, short bench & all, the Knights end up in the league playoffs and makes some noise.

Our discussion of this current Ole recruiting class reminds me of 4 years ago when the much ballyhooed freshman class of 08 arrived on the St. Olaf campus.  Steve Banick, Bobby Hunter, Chad Norberg & Tucker Weisman arrived with great fanfare by a few of their loyalist/poster friends who let it be known on this board these guys were the new "fab 4" & would rule the MIAC.  While two of the players had very solid careers, Banick & Hunter, I don't recall any league championship banners hanging from their fieldhouse walls, or even league championship game appearances.

And before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm not criticizing any of these players and happened to think highly of these former Oles.  It's been great watching some of these guys play basketball from early traveling ball, AAU, through high school and into college.  Steve Banick was a personal favorite of mine & the Oles will miss his steady leadership & PG skills  he provided for 4 years.

[columbianmaffia]

Wieloch will stroke the 3 ball...chicks dig the 3 ball...

[hoopmaster]

Has any got a chance to look at the non-conference opponents.  I got a chance to look at some of the schedules and there are some interesting games out there. 

Of the schedules I looked at Bethel seems to have the easiest.  The have some cupcakes for their tournament then play a couple more cupcakes. 
A few teams are sharing out of state opponents.  Mac and Concordia will both be playing Pacific Lutheran.  A team that beat Augsburg early in the season last year. 
The Gusties and the Scots are playing Puget Sound a team who last year blowout Bemidji and Stout. 

It looks like Winona wants to beat up on as many MIAC schools as possible.  Playing GAC, St. Mary's and Augsburg.  I could be missing one.  The Dawgs play Crown College two games in a row.  What's up with that.

St. Mary's also plays St. Cloud State.  That's two D2 opponents for a team that really struggled last year.
Hamline has a tame schedule until they go to North Dakota.
St. Olaf has a nice non-conference schedule until they play at South Dakota.

There is much more out there but these are just some random thoughts on the non-conference schedule.

[Willy Wonka]

Hoops - I'll have to get back to you on the names because I only know positions right now. Monday night could be that time.

FWIW - Fritz Waldvogel absolutely torched the Gusties today with 12 catches for 180 yards and a TD. I'll reiterate right now that I think he'll push Nicolai for playing time this winter, if he chooses to play both sports. Granted, I've never been a believer in Nicolai, but Waldvogel has the strength, smarts and quickness to contribute right away.

[TearDrop]

Hoops - I'll have to get back to you on the names because I only know positions right now. Monday night could be that time.

FWIW - Fritz Waldvogel absolutely torched the Gusties today with 12 catches for 180 yards and a TD. I'll reiterate right now that I think he'll push Nicolai for playing time this winter, if he chooses to play both sports. Granted, I've never been a believer in Nicolai, but Waldvogel has the strength, smarts and quickness to contribute right away.

I have never seen the Waldvogel kid play before but if the Wonka wisdom thinks that he will push Nicolai for some PT then I am inclined to believe him. But I would think that they could play at the same time possibly?? Being too deep at any position is a good problem for any coach to have I would think.

[hoopmaster]

Wonka thanks for the honesty on Nicolai.  I am going to disagree with you.  I like Fritz as a player but I don't think he will get much if any playing time.  Tuma and Nicolai will get all of the minutes.  He may play if one of them get into foul trouble or in case of an injury but i don't see him taking minutes from the two guys in front of him.

[localcoach]

Wonka - I have to agree with hoopmaster.  While Mr. Waldvogel is a nice player, he's no Tyler Nicolai.  He's smaller in stature and doesn't score like Mr. Nicolai.  Remember, this is a guy who finished second in scoring last year for The Tommies; #1 in 3-pt% (over 42%); and had a 1.6 to 1 assist/to ratio.  Those are formidable numbers, especially for a freshmen

[Willy Wonka]

We'll see, I guess.

Nicolai's stats were very solid last year, but he disappeared in some big games — which happen to be the ones I saw him play. He went 1-6 against GAC in the MIAC title game and, after two quick 3s, was absolutely destroyed by the BV guards in the first-round playoff loss. He got in foul trouble and was ultimately benched (15 min PT) because he couldn't stop anybody.

Coincidentally, Waldvogel was one of the best defensive guards I've ever seen at the high school level. Short, but extremely quick, strong and smart. Don't think those skills will translate at the college level? He's currently leading the MIAC in receptions and sits second in yards. I questioned his shooting after my first viewing...and then he hit four treys in the next game I watched. I definitely see him beating out Tuma for the backup spot, and I'd view that as his absolute floor this winter. I might pay (or use my MIAC pass, at least) to see those preseason battles for PT.

That said, I don't even know if he's going to play both sports. This could be a pointless debate.

[Drake Palmer]

Wonka - I have to agree with hoopmaster.  While Mr. Waldvogel is a nice player, he's no Tyler Nicolai.  He's smaller in stature and doesn't score like Mr. Nicolai.  Remember, this is a guy who finished second in scoring last year for The Tommies; #1 in 3-pt% (over 42%); and had a 1.6 to 1 assist/to ratio.  Those are formidable numbers, especially for a freshmen

Surprise, surprise, I'll toss in my deflated two cents worth and also add that I'd side with Local & Hoopmaster on this subject.   

On the other hand, not unlike the other outstanding freshmen in the MIAC last season, I think Tyler Nicolai's play definitely fell off in the 2nd half of the year.  Nearly all of the top FY such as Nicolai, Hamline's Eric Clute, SJU's Chris Schwartz & SMU's Will Wright had their big games back in December & early January.  I think the adjustment to college life, the longer season and the bigger, stronger, older players start to take their toll on the players in January and February.

Where Nicolai sometimes gets himself into trouble is that he appears to be pouting when things aren't going his way & or appears to be disinterested in playing defense. A part of this I think stems from his approach to the game which seems to be a cool, detached style, versus the fiery, emotional approach of say a Sean Sweeney or even Brett Tuma. Nicolai needs to go look at some old-school footage of Walt Frazier, outstanding NY Knicks guard to see how he can be cool and still play tough D.  "Clyde" was the epitome of cool. 

What will be fun to see this year is how much these players have developed, gotten stronger and improved their games this off–season.

[jquentint]

[Washington U. Basketball Ranked Second by Sporting News
Oct 05, 2008
Press Release posted by Washington U.
The first set of preseason national rankings have been released and the NCAA Division III defending national champion Washington University in St. Louis men's basketball team is ranked No. 2 in the Sporting News College Basketball Magazine top-10 poll, which is currently available on newsstands.

The Midwest was represented well as the University of St. Thomas (Minn.) was chosen as the favorite to bring home the title in March. Washington University (No. 2) and CCIW members Wheaton College (Ill.) (No. 3) and Augustana College (Ill.) (No. 4), and University of Wisconsin-Whitewater (No. 5) round out the top five. University Athletic Association (UAA) member Brandeis University is in the top-10 at No. 9.

The Bears return 14 letterwinners and four starters from last year's national championship team, including preseason honorable-mention All-America selections in senior forward Tyler Nading and senior point guard Sean Wallis. The Bears tied the school record for most wins in a season with a 25-6 overall record in 2007-08. Washington U. also placed second in the UAA, and advanced to the Final Four for the second time in school history.

Nading, an honorable-mention All-America and first-team all-University Athletic Association (UAA) honoree in 2007-08, averaged 14.7 points, 5.8 rebounds and a UAA-best 2.2 steals per game for the Bears. Wallis, a preseason All-America selection in 2007, averaged 9.7 points and 7.7 assists per game last year before suffering a season-ending injury in the third game of the season.

Washington University also returns two junior starters who earned honorable-mention all-UAA honors a year ago. Forward Cameron Smith averaged 5.1 points and 4.1 rebounds in 31 starts, while guard Aaron Thompson averaged 11.4 points per game while leading the team in assists (120) and second in three-pointers made (68).

Washington U. head coach Mark Edwards enters his 28th season the Danforth Campus with an overall record of 477-233 (.672) record. The 2008 Molten/DIII News, D3hoops.com and National Basketball Coaches Association (NABC) Division III National Coach of the Year has guided the Bears to a school-record 24-consecutive winning seasons.

Washington University opens regular season play on Saturday, Nov. 15, in the Colorado College Tip-Off Classic against North Park University. Tip-off is set for 1 p.m. (MT) in Colorado Springs, Colo.

[Drake Palmer]

[Washington U. Basketball Ranked Second by Sporting News
Oct 05, 2008
Press Release posted by Washington U.
The first set of preseason national rankings have been released and the NCAA Division III defending national champion Washington University in St. Louis men’s basketball team is ranked No. 2 in the Sporting News College Basketball Magazine top-10 poll, which is currently available on newsstands.

The Midwest was represented well as the University of St. Thomas (Minn.) was chosen as the favorite to bring home the title in March. Washington University (No. 2) and CCIW members Wheaton College (Ill.) (No. 3) and Augustana College (Ill.) (No. 4), and University of Wisconsin-Whitewater (No. 5) round out the top five. University Athletic Association (UAA) member Brandeis University is in the top-10 at No. 9....

JQ - nice grist for the lumbering grist mill.  +k And with that Drake was off to the mills: 

According to most veteran observers of the national D3 hoops scene, the Sporting News & other predominantly D1 sports publications' preseason polls are usually a little suspect when it comes to D3 sports.

With all of the returning players Washington has coming back, their tough conference schedule, & being the defending national champs, I have no problems whatsoever with Washington being ranked #1 or even # 2.  But the Tommies picked #1??  Top 10 or so, mebbe, but no way, no how should they be picked #1.  As Jesus in "The Big Lebowski" says - "that's laughable."

I really like the players on UST teams over the past few years, but I think they would even admit their post season results have been a disappointment.  And again I hope they or any other MIAC team fares well in the post season.  Who knows? Maybe this might be the year one of our teams makes a national splash.  It's been what - 5 years since the Gusties' fabulous run? Prove me wrong Tommies. I'd glady eat some Tommie pie at the end of the season. 

It will be interesting to see what PC & the D3Hoops crew come up with in their preseason poll.  I can almost guarantee the Tommies won't be ranked #1.

[SLP-O-8]

Yeah St Thomas being #1 surprised me...I think the tommies will be a really good team but having them over BV which returns a solid starting line up i dont know about that.  BV will have 3 of their top 4 guards back along with the 2 big man down low in Fogelman and Cleveland.  They also brought in a great recruiting class that is 11 deep.  Excited about this year and had a good time watching a game up at St Thomas.  Lets do it again later in the tournament this year.

[columbianmaffia]

when i have seen Nicolai play he has had a lot of trouble against taller lanky players who have been on him...i think he struggles against players with that body type

i havent been paying much attention lately...who does UST have returning and transferring in and freshman coming in that people think they are going to be that good?

GO GOPHERS!