MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Drake Palmer]

With a team like St. Thomas that is loaded with talent, is it really that unusual for an all-conference caliber player like Nicolai to go a few games with poor numbers? I don't think so. Give it two weeks and get back to us WW.

+k to Gacbacker & TH4L.  When even your own countryman tells you to give it a rest, they might be on to something.  And I'll admit  my eyes are older than your eyes, but when it comes to the assist stat you're throwing out,  I think you're reading Anders Halverson's or Teddy Archer's stat line instead of Nicolai's. They're the ones averaging .8/apg.  Nicolai is averaging a robust 1.3/apg good for 6th on the team. Get your facts straight.




Click here for a larger view http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Commentary/Chicken_Little/Chicken_Little.jpg

 

[ChairmanYao]

Welcome aboard, Yao!

Why so many turnovers again for Hamline?  Is it poor point guard play or something else?

Many thanks for welcoming to the board. I believe it is point guard play to an extent. Behind Hayes the Pipers are very inexperienced. They have 96 turnovers to just 78 assists. Also have to look at the performance from the charity stripe. 65%.....That hurts in a close game. You have to believe that with more games under the belt along with a second half addition or two the Pipers will be a contender for playoffs even if they are a bit raw right now.

[TearDrop]

TD – we'll cut you & your guy some slack until we get to know you & Lukas Holland a bit better.  Holland is a nice player but we'll have to see how his sophomore year goes & if the Birds can make any progress in the Win column.  We know Holland can score, but does he have anyone he can distribute the ball to besides Will Wright?  And have the Knights twins grown any taller?  And whatever happened to Coach Trewick's favorite whipping boy from last season – Nick Carr? Eligibility wise he's only a senior & I would think he would have been a welcome addition to the team. 

Oh Nick Carr, last I heard about him was that he was no longer attending school. I am not sure exactly what he is doing though. That kid had a lot of potential and from what I heard not much direction.

Another solid scoring night for Holland and Wright. I think the fact that Holland does not have anyone to pass to that is a viable threat to score makes his case even more. I think that he and Wright will continue to have good games that could be even better if you put options around them. I am not sure if I am willing to say that Holland is THE best point guard but I think he deserves to be mentioned.

[HarryDH]

A couple of random comments & observations

Chairman Yao- Love the name. +k
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Is anyone else shocked that the lockdown Bethel defense held SJU to a paltry 40 points in the second half and still lost? I'm surprised they weren't able mount a comeback with a stellar performance like that.

And where's the Nicolai for Future MVP Bandwagon now? 3 points, 4 boards and 0 assists in 29 minutes. Leslie and Waldvogel are lurking, waiting, watching.

Willy - you seem to have regained your usual swagger after your beloved Gusties recovered from a shot to ballast (Bethany Lutheran), and have managed to bail most of the water (upset win over Buena Vista), and straightened out the sail (respectable performance against Winona State)  for this season's tour of the basketball high seas.  I was getting ready to measure you up for a humility suit – about a 46 long?  
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I wonder after these many years if the Bethel coaches have started talking among themselves – "Does our cream puff schedule have anything to do with our lack of post season success"? Virtually every team in the conference this year will have played a tougher non conference schedule than the Royals.  Even Northwestern for crips sake!

Oops, O post on this board so much I forgot they're not a part of the MIAC.  But seriously, St. Scholastica, Bethany Lutheran & Northwestern, the 2-3 UMAC teams that are really pushing at the door for D3 hoops credibility have all played much more challenging schedules than the Royals.

In addition the MIAC teams they all play, those UMAC teams will have also played:  Wartburg, Central, UW-Stout, UW-Eau Claire, UW-Superior, St. Norbert, a Holiday D3 tourney in Connecticut, plus D2 MN State-Mankato & SW State.

Compare that schedule to Bethel's killer non conference schedule:

Martin Luther, Mount Marty (they had to send scouts out to find this school), Grand View, & North Central Bible College. 
 

I was going to comment on the terrible non-conference schedule the Royals insist on playing year in and year out but you beat me to it. They used to at least put one decent team in their tip-off tournament, but now they don't eve do that.  This cupcake schedule doesn't prepare them to play any defense once the conference season begins (not that they play that defense in the non conference games either.)  The talent they have should produce more conference wins that it has the last couple of years and I believe the schedule is a big reason.

(modified by GS for formatting)

[Willy Wonka]

With a team like St. Thomas that is loaded with talent, is it really that unusual for an all-conference caliber player like Nicolai to go a few games with poor numbers? I don't think so. Give it two weeks and get back to us WW.

+k to Gacbacker & TH4L.  When even your own countryman tells you to give it a rest, they might be on to something.  And I'll admit  my eyes are older than your eyes, but when it comes to the assist stat you're throwing out,  I think you're reading Anders Halverson's or Teddy Archer's stat line instead of Nicolai's. They're the ones averaging .8/apg.  Nicolai is averaging a robust 1.3/apg good for 6th on the team. Get your facts straight.

Checked and doublechecked. Still says 0.8 on the UST site.

Anyone old enough to remember Neal Anderson's rebounding prowess? I've still got almost 3 years to ride the Nicolai train

To piggyback on the lone SMU backer's argument a few pages back, I *really* like Holland's game. It's hard to judge him on W/L because the rest of his team is legitimately terrible, outside of the other WW. I've never seen Cassens play, but I've got to imagine Holland is in the discussion for best PG.

18, 4.8 and 2+ ain't nothing to sniff at.

[columbianmaffia]

i have no idea who was covering nicolai but im guessing it was someone who was long and lanky...every time i have seen him play against someone who was long and lanky he has been completely shut down

[Chica yea false identification]

I like Basketball
oh and ummmmmm go cardinals??

[wabbit]

Hate to go back to back...but since we are on point guards, who is the best point guard in the MIAC? 

Peronally I like Sutherland at Carleton, but there are many other good ones as well

I'll second that, although you'll probably get some arguments for Olson at CC, Laugen at Bethel and Nicolai at UST.  Olson seems to make the Cobber engine run.  What I think may set Sutherland apart is his size.  In the first game of the season he blocked 6 shots and he has 10 on the year in 3 games.  He's also quick and can get to the rack and finish.

I was hoping one of my posts would trigger some responses.  I'd forgotten about Hurley since I was watching Wojo on the sidelines & Paulus getting a few minutes on the floor.

Top 3 Disliked Duke PGs

1)  Hurley

2) Wojo (this is when I began to develop my love-hate thing with the defensive floor slap - talk about weak sauce!)
3)  Paulus

In recent years, I think the 2 PGs in the MIAC that have elicited the strongest reactions were Pat McKenzie at SJU & Sean Sweeney at UST.  You ether loved them or hated them.  I was kinda hoping Mike Deslauriers at GAC would turn into one of those fiery leaders but so far he has not.  Junior Jeremy Sutherland at Carleton has excellent potential to fit in this category.   

In terms of best all around PG I'm surprised you guys didn't mention Jon Cassens at Augsburg. For my money he's the best all around PG in the league and it isn't even close. He scores, distributes, plays good defense and is a good leader. If I'm not mistaken this is his 2nd year serving as team captain and he's only a junior.

Karl Olson at Concordia is nice, but I don't think he's ever going to be a big time scorer.  However, he does all of the other things real well & has an excellent mental approach to play PG.

Bethel's Corey Laugen is talented, but he's had injuries throughout his career & defensively I wouldn't rate him ahead of Cassens or Olson.   Tyler Nicolai from UST certainly has all of the tools to be an outstanding PG, but I get the sense sometimes he wishes he was a 6-3 shooting guard.

Carleton's Jeremy Sutherland can struggle with his shot, but he's a steady hand running the Knights offense & IMO, defensively he's the best of the PG bunch.  He's a talented, long, lean, mean, quick player, has a bit of a chip on his shoulder & a sneer on his face.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him make the All-MIAC Defense Team.
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Am I only one who got stoked by watching the Gophers play last night?  When Damian Johnson, Al Nolen & crew defensively began wrecking havoc on Virginia it was a display of athleticism, good teamwork and intensity which got me fired me thinking about tonight.

Give me ugly ball Carleton & UST in Norffield, the OT thrilla a couple of years ago when UST beat the Royals at Bethel,  the Carlies & the Gusties, wrassling matches with the Cobbs up in Moorhead, MAC knocking off Gustavus in St. Peter,  Doug Espenson getting teed up against the Pipes, & the rivalry games between the Tommies & the Johnnies. 

Great stuff – can't wait!

Drake...quite frankly I am a little shocked that we have found something we agree on, but to tell you the truth I disliked Laettner and Hurly equally...and even though Coach K and I share a similiar heritage, the only time I have ever cheered for one of his teams was this past olympics. 

What did people have against my man P-Mac...I admit some bias here but he he was a fiery leader who tried to make his teammates better...As for Sweeney HE was a main reason that UST was as good as they were, this was pointed out to me by a coach I like to refer to as Yoda, he has great knowledge.  Didn't they go 19-1  or 18-2 and the losses were the games he missed??

To tell you the truth I did not think of Cassens, he was held in check in C'ville last year and had 20 against the J's at Auggy...he is very good but when I saw Carleton with and without Sutherland it was a huge difference, which is maybe why I noticed him more.

As for Laugen, he seemed to be the third option last night down the stretch and didn't play until Brown and Vavra had fouled out...

Hmmm...Jeremy Sutherland is not running the point for Carleton. Those duties are being handled by Jason Weischedel (So.) and Blaise Davis (Fy). Better get your facts straight.

[Willy Wonka]

Oh snap!

Called out, DP.

[Drake Palmer]

Oh snap!

Called out, DP.

Puhleaze,  but if you insist...   As the tagline from an old Trix cereal commercial used to say – "silly Wabbit, Trix are for kids."

Get real, a poster with 3 posts to his name? Three posts, which is similar to Carleton who have played 3 games so far this season.  And of those 3 games, only one game was played here in Minnesota.  So, unless Wabbit was in Hawaii watching the Knights play their other two games, how the heck would he know?  Carleton may have changed things since last year, but I doubt it.  I saw Carleton play twice last year with Sutherland in the lineup.  Once in December against Bethel & again in February against St. Olaf, and in each game he was running the point.

Unlike a certain PG who plays for a team who wear purple uniforms, Sutherland happens to lead the guards on the Carleton team in the assists category- this year and last year.  For example, in spite of missing 9 games last year with a broken hand, Sutherland had 42 assists in 17 games, compared to 38 assists in 20 games for Weischedel.  I'm fairly certain if Sutherland would have played in those other 9 games he would have easily totaled another 18- 20 more assists. Wabbit's boy Weischedel hit the glass ceiling.

Also, maybe a basketball primer is in order, when a team runs a flex offense; it's not all that uncommon for other players to handle the ball i.e. Zach Johnson who happens to lead Carleton in assists.  Does that make Zorro a PG??  The Carlies may have Weischedel & Davis doing spot duty at the point, but Sutherland is the guy.
***
Also, there seems to be a discrepancy between the stats listed on the UST website versus the MIAC site.  Willy - check it out.  MIAC UST Stats

[wabbit]

Oh snap!

Called out, DP.

Puhleaze,  but if you insist...   As the tagline from an old Trix cereal commercial used to say – "silly Wabbit, Trix are for kids."

Get real, a poster with 3 posts to his name? Three posts, which is similar to Carleton who have played 3 games so far this season.  And of those 3 games, only one game was played here in Minnesota.  So, unless Wabbit was in Hawaii watching the Knights play their other two games, how the heck would he know?  Carleton may have changed things since last year, but I doubt it.  I saw Carleton play twice last year with Sutherland in the lineup.  Once in December against Bethel & again in February against St. Olaf, and in each game he was running the point.

Unlike a certain PG who plays for a team who wear purple uniforms, Sutherland happens to lead the guards on the Carleton team in the assists category- this year and last year.  For example, in spite of missing 9 games last year with a broken hand, Sutherland had 42 assists in 17 games, compared to 38 assists in 20 games for Weischedel.  I'm fairly certain if Sutherland would have played in those other 9 games he would have easily totaled another 18- 20 more assists. Wabbit's boy Weischedel hit the glass ceiling.

Also, maybe a basketball primer is in order, when a team runs a flex offense; it's not all that uncommon for other players to handle the ball i.e. Zach Johnson who happens to lead Carleton in assists.  Does that make Zorro a PG??  The Carlies may have Weischedel & Davis doing spot duty at the point, but Sutherland is the guy.
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Also, there seems to be a discrepancy between the stats listed on the UST website versus the MIAC site.  Willy - check it out.  MIAC UST Stats

Well...hmmm...I guess. All I know is Weishedel is getting the ball and bringing it up court and starting off the offense. In my mind that's a point guard but as you can tell I am definitely not a BBall expert. Can't other guards lead in scoring but not be the point guard?   

[abominable_snowman]

It's a little late, and a bit dated, but a MIAC point guard discussion can't proceed without at least a reference to the late  All-Conference Abe Woldeslassie.  Talk about fun to watch.

For me a PGs main role has nothing to do with stats.

The PG needs to have ice in his veins.  You have to be able to trust his ability to handle the ball by himself in late crunch time games.

I've seen Tyler hit clutch shots and have this role, I've also seen the ball in the hands of Joe Scott (not a PG)

I also think that great point guards are either the number 1 or number 2 leader on the team. Right now, I would argue that UST is BJ and Lonnie's team, and if either of them aren't on the court, I think Joe Scott has more presence than Nicolai right now.  As WW said we have 3 years to ride the Nicolai train and see where it's headed.

So basically, I'll concede a little ground to WW, and sickness and injury aside Tyler needs to have his presence felt in EVERY game.  I think he has great potential, but isn't there yet.  As it's been stated as well CASSENS, OLSON and SUTHERLAND are probably tops in MIAC.
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How's Van Sickle been this year?  I'm feeling a little lazy to look up stats, but I've liked some of his performances as well

[Willy Wonka]

Van Sickle has been about what I expected — and better, if you take away the debacle of an opener.

As the only consistent scoring threat for the Gusties this season, he's put up 16 PPG on 57% shooting, including 47% from deep. However, those numbers are a little deceiving. He scored just 10 against Bethany and my sources say he wasn't even looking for his shot — which threw GAC's entire offense for a loop.

He's been much more aggressive since then, which has coincided with a much better performance from the team. There's no chance his percentages stay that high, but I think his scoring average will hover right around there for the rest of the way.

[gacbacker]

Gustavus 100 Concordia 67

Everything was falling for the Gusties today. 63% from the field, 69% from three point range. 

[Nites]

Gustavus 100 Concordia 67

Everything was falling for the Gusties today. 63% from the field, 69% from three point range. 

WOW!  ... and I had them down as a 1 on my confidence pick.  Nice performance.