MBB: MAC Freedom League

[gordonmann]

King's looked very young to me. Their best two players were a freshman and a sophomore.

Could just be one of those seasons where the young guys take lumps.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The second week Regional Rankings have been released: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-second

[jmcozenlaw]

JM- factor in financial aid, cost, tradition, facilities, type of recruit generally, location, academics, major offerings etc... rate the MAC Freedom jobs. Go!

CC - That's such a tough. loaded question. I usually avoid comparisons, especially academic, as I've seen and learned over 30+ years, it really means so little in so many cases. I went to what some would call an "elite" (or snobby) school. There is zero, or even less than a zero percent chance that I would even sniff getting in to that school today. I'm being honest.........not a chance that I'd get even close to making the cut.

I've worked for two Fortune 50 CPG companies. I've been a consultant to senior level management at many CPG companies. I did feasibility studies for sports teams/ownership and state/city/county govt officials for stadiums, arenas and convention centers. I've managed money for higher income folks (portfolio minimum = 2.5 million / average portfolio = 6.87 million) and now do that for a handful of select accounts, while trading (primarily other people's "fun money") oil and nat gas.

My client list has, and still does, include grads of colleges and universities all over the map. My largest account? A former frat boy from that prestigious East Stroudsburg State College (back in the day). My second largest? One of Philadelphia's most successful attorney's........................and a graduate of Bloomsburg State College. I've got a huge account from a Holy Family University (most on this board couldn't tell me what that is or where it's at) grad.....................and on and on and on. Yes, I have a few Ivy League accounts as well as a few blue blood, trust fund, types of accounts. I have a big account from a couple who dropped out of Lock Haven State College and one who lasted all of six months at Villanova. My point to all of this is the following.

I've hired and fired folks from "elite" schools. I gave chances to hungry folks from "not-so-elite" schools. A buddy of mine unofficially retired, in his mid-40's, after starting and selling five companies. He received an engineering degree from, wait for it, Spring Garden College. It was a small school in Philly..................that hasn't even existed for a couple of decades (think of Upsala, before Upsala, closed).

I moved out to Doylestown almost 20 years ago and knew squatta about the MAC and Delaware Valley College. I thought it was a school where farmers went. 20 years later..................I've had my ankle and knee replaced...................by an ortho surgeon who happened to go to DelVal for his undergrad. My dogs go to the #1 rated vet in the five county area...................a DelVal grad (although I guess some say that makes sense because dogs are animals). The divorce lawyer who saved me went to DelVal/Temple (while my ex had a U of Penn/Penn Law grad) and he/we won in a 3rd round TKO.

After teaching a few classes at night, I really had a change of heart (especially relative to where I went). I love the schools who take chances on kids. Kids who might have but one or two chances to get out of bad places. I can't speak intelligently about most of the MAC schools, but given my 20 years in the area, I'd say this. If a high school senior has a real interest in the sciences, DelVal is an excellent choice. Pharma companies in the area eat up their chemistry, biochemistry and biology grads. An interest in becoming a doctor, dentist, or, especially, a veterinarian? Those grads get in to many of the best medical, dental and vet schools in the area and across the country. I'm not an animal person (other than owning dogs) but they were just ranked a Top 20 school, across the country, in animal sciences. I'm not into farming or any of that kind of stuff................but I'm glad that there is some people who are, as I love to eat and drink. A saw some type of report that showed some of the largest schools in the country (Penn State, Kansas State, Texas A&M and about 15 others, most in farming communities in the Midwest) actually have more ag and ag related majors than DelVal has in their entire undergrad population. That blew my mind as I've heard DelVal called an ag school in the past, but have never heard the word or phrase uttered once re: Penn State nor any of the other schools.

I run across people who brag about their schools...............average annual salaries, blah, blah, blah. I personally feel that is so misleading and counter-factual. Some kids want to go to school and come out and make a ton of money. Some kids actually want to make a difference. DelVal (and schools like it) crank out future teachers and administrators. Sure, when you factor in the salaries in the first few years, it is going to make the average artificially low. Some kids actually want to work for non-profits. Nobody is getting wealthy that way. Some kids want to go into law enforcement.......local or maybe the FBI. Those kids are never going to drive any school's average annual salary figure to the stratosphere.

I've taught finance classes at DelVal and four other local schools over the past 15 or so years. For the fifth consecutive year, DelVal has placed in the Top Ten (in 2017, out of 87 schools) in the State of PA for the highest percentage, first time pass rate for the CPA Exam. Another MAC school, Lycoming, has also been on the same Top Ten list all five years as well. Your eyes would bug out if you saw the schools that Lycoming and DelVal routinely "best" each year. Schools like Pitt, Penn State, Duqeunse, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, F&M, Temple, as well as many smaller schools. This is not to imply that Lyco and DelVal are "better" schools than any of the listed schools, but, within both schools, there are options to really excel.

I haven't had the need for any counseling psychology services (although my divorce some years ago had me at the brink at times ) but I am friends with a lot of people who rave about DelVal's counseling psychology program (I didn't even know they had one). Widener has some excellent programs. Lyco has a nice business program. Misericordia has an awesome physical therapy program (I have a buddy who went there and he and his wife just opened up there sixth location). Many MAC schools have excellent nursing programs and while many might not aspire to that.........we are thankful when in the hospital and in need of nursing care. Most students don't go to Ivy League schools, nor Duke, Stanford or M.I.T. to come out and teach...........but we are all so very thankful for living in great public school districts (or paying for private schools) and understand the critical nature of teachers and their impact on our children. We have great demands on them, while most of us had no interest (as we chased the money) to do it ourselves. If I could go back, I'd teach and coach in a heartbeat. Become a principal and then a superintendent. Marry a woman with the same life plan, and in the Council Rock and CB school districts, make our $600K-650K combined with great benefits for life.

The facilities thing is interesting but if you've been around the MAC, many middle schools have nice gyms. Eastern's gym is a bad grade school gym. DeSales gym has bleachers about six rows high. Manhattanville is a heaping mess. FDU is kind of a semi-dump. DelVal is actually OK compared to those. King's and Wilkes are nice and clean. Miser's is just strange. Nice, but strange. I actually like Arcadia's very much. Widener is bleh. LebVal is very nice. Messiah is gorgeous. I've been to 150+ D3 gyms. Wesley's might be the worst. It's Beirut meets Cairo. LBC is clean, but tiny. Bryn Athyn has to be seen to be imagined. One can not describe it. Give me the kid who will bust it in average facilities vs. the kid who loves the big, beautiful weight room (while he and most the football team rarely use it). Give me the kid who has that 'dog' in him, who likes that underdog mantra, who has a lot of doubters, on and off the field. What DelVal has done for 15+ years with their football program, with THOSE facilities, speaks a ton about the coaches and the kids.

I can't really rank anything, but I wanted to give you a flavor for how I see the world, through my experiences, regarding education. I met a guy last month (through a friend) who dropped out of college after a couple of months. he didn't need it. Didn't want it. It bored him and was just wasting his time. He made his first million before turning 22 and has now passed 4 BILLION in terms of his net worth. He owns a piece of the Sixers (bought, not Trust Fund Money in his family) and has a retail empire, some of it tied into pro sports (Fanatics). He's never knocked education, but he has stated that it would have delayed him by years and years. he is one of the smartest (not M.I.T. "smart") people I've ever spoken to in person. Another buddy (who barely got through high school) just opened up his 25th Five Guys, to go along with a bunch of Rita's Water Ice's and Applebee's. He spoke to my son (which might have been a mistake in hindsight ) and now my kid wants to be a "business man". He lacks the direction that, obviously, guys like this, always had in their DNA.

Phew, my fingers are tired. But there is the unofficial MAC/Non-MAC/Value of Higher Education "Ranking". I truly believe that anybody can make a success (how "they", not how society, defines "success") of themselves, regardless of where they go to school and for some........................if they go to school..........................like my plumbing buddy, a mental midget of sorts growing up, who just put his 100th truck on the street last year. And yes...................I do trade his "fun money"

[kate]

As to facilities at our respective MAC Freedom gyms,  it would be great if we could combine the extensive food menu at DeSales and the tables and comfy chairs at Del Val.   This year there was very sparse food at DVU and no seating at DeSales.

[Oline89]

JM- factor in financial aid, cost, tradition, facilities, type of recruit generally, location, academics, major offerings etc... rate the MAC Freedom jobs. Go!

CC - That's such a tough. loaded question. I usually avoid comparisons, especially academic, as I've seen and learned over 30+ years, it really means so little in so many cases. I went to what some would call an "elite" (or snobby) school. There is zero, or even less than a zero percent chance that I would even sniff getting in to that school today. I'm being honest.........not a chance that I'd get even close to making the cut.

I've worked for two Fortune 50 CPG companies. I've been a consultant to senior level management at many CPG companies. I did feasibility studies for sports teams/ownership and state/city/county govt officials for stadiums, arenas and convention centers. I've managed money for higher income folks (portfolio minimum = 2.5 million / average portfolio = 6.87 million) and now do that for a handful of select accounts, while trading (primarily other people's "fun money") oil and nat gas.

My client list has, and still does, include grads of colleges and universities all over the map. My largest account? A former frat boy from that prestigious East Stroudsburg State College (back in the day). My second largest? One of Philadelphia's most successful attorney's........................and a graduate of Bloomsburg State College. I've got a huge account from a Holy Family University (most on this board couldn't tell me what that is or where it's at) grad.....................and on and on and on. Yes, I have a few Ivy League accounts as well as a few blue blood, trust fund, types of accounts. I have a big account from a couple who dropped out of Lock Haven State College and one who lasted all of six months at Villanova. My point to all of this is the following.

I've hired and fired folks from "elite" schools. I gave chances to hungry folks from "not-so-elite" schools. A buddy of mine unofficially retired, in his mid-40's, after starting and selling five companies. He received an engineering degree from, wait for it, Spring Garden College. It was a small school in Philly..................that hasn't even existed for a couple of decades (think of Upsala, before Upsala, closed).

I moved out to Doylestown almost 20 years ago and knew squatta about the MAC and Delaware Valley College. I thought it was a school where farmers went. 20 years later..................I've had my ankle and knee replaced...................by an ortho surgeon who happened to go to DelVal for his undergrad. My dogs go to the #1 rated vet in the five county area...................a DelVal grad (although I guess some say that makes sense because dogs are animals). The divorce lawyer who saved me went to DelVal/Temple (while my ex had a U of Penn/Penn Law grad) and he/we won in a 3rd round TKO.

After teaching a few classes at night, I really had a change of heart (especially relative to where I went). I love the schools who take chances on kids. Kids who might have but one or two chances to get out of bad places. I can't speak intelligently about most of the MAC schools, but given my 20 years in the area, I'd say this. If a high school senior has a real interest in the sciences, DelVal is an excellent choice. Pharma companies in the area eat up their chemistry, biochemistry and biology grads. An interest in becoming a doctor, dentist, or, especially, a veterinarian? Those grads get in to many of the best medical, dental and vet schools in the area and across the country. I'm not an animal person (other than owning dogs) but they were just ranked a Top 20 school, across the country, in animal sciences. I'm not into farming or any of that kind of stuff................but I'm glad that there is some people who are, as I love to eat and drink. A saw some type of report that showed some of the largest schools in the country (Penn State, Kansas State, Texas A&M and about 15 others, most in farming communities in the Midwest) actually have more ag and ag related majors than DelVal has in their entire undergrad population. That blew my mind as I've heard DelVal called an ag school in the past, but have never heard the word or phrase uttered once re: Penn State nor any of the other schools.

I run across people who brag about their schools...............average annual salaries, blah, blah, blah. I personally feel that is so misleading and counter-factual. Some kids want to go to school and come out and make a ton of money. Some kids actually want to make a difference. DelVal (and schools like it) crank out future teachers and administrators. Sure, when you factor in the salaries in the first few years, it is going to make the average artificially low. Some kids actually want to work for non-profits. Nobody is getting wealthy that way. Some kids want to go into law enforcement.......local or maybe the FBI. Those kids are never going to drive any school's average annual salary figure to the stratosphere.

I've taught finance classes at DelVal and four other local schools over the past 15 or so years. For the fifth consecutive year, DelVal has placed in the Top Ten (in 2017, out of 87 schools) in the State of PA for the highest percentage, first time pass rate for the CPA Exam. Another MAC school, Lycoming, has also been on the same Top Ten list all five years as well. Your eyes would bug out if you saw the schools that Lycoming and DelVal routinely "best" each year. Schools like Pitt, Penn State, Duqeunse, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, F&M, Temple, as well as many smaller schools. This is not to imply that Lyco and DelVal are "better" schools than any of the listed schools, but, within both schools, there are options to really excel.

I haven't had the need for any counseling psychology services (although my divorce some years ago had me at the brink at times ) but I am friends with a lot of people who rave about DelVal's counseling psychology program (I didn't even know they had one). Widener has some excellent programs. Lyco has a nice business program. Misericordia has an awesome physical therapy program (I have a buddy who went there and he and his wife just opened up there sixth location). Many MAC schools have excellent nursing programs and while many might not aspire to that.........we are thankful when in the hospital and in need of nursing care. Most students don't go to Ivy League schools, nor Duke, Stanford or M.I.T. to come out and teach...........but we are all so very thankful for living in great public school districts (or paying for private schools) and understand the critical nature of teachers and their impact on our children. We have great demands on them, while most of us had no interest (as we chased the money) to do it ourselves. If I could go back, I'd teach and coach in a heartbeat. Become a principal and then a superintendent. Marry a woman with the same life plan, and in the Council Rock and CB school districts, make our $600K-650K combined with great benefits for life.

The facilities thing is interesting but if you've been around the MAC, many middle schools have nice gyms. Eastern's gym is a bad grade school gym. DeSales gym has bleachers about six rows high. Manhattanville is a heaping mess. FDU is kind of a semi-dump. DelVal is actually OK compared to those. King's and Wilkes are nice and clean. Miser's is just strange. Nice, but strange. I actually like Arcadia's very much. Widener is bleh. LebVal is very nice. Messiah is gorgeous. I've been to 150+ D3 gyms. Wesley's might be the worst. It's Beirut meets Cairo. LBC is clean, but tiny. Bryn Athyn has to be seen to be imagined. One can not describe it. Give me the kid who will bust it in average facilities vs. the kid who loves the big, beautiful weight room (while he and most the football team rarely use it). Give me the kid who has that 'dog' in him, who likes that underdog mantra, who has a lot of doubters, on and off the field. What DelVal has done for 15+ years with their football program, with THOSE facilities, speaks a ton about the coaches and the kids.

I can't really rank anything, but I wanted to give you a flavor for how I see the world, through my experiences, regarding education. I met a guy last month (through a friend) who dropped out of college after a couple of months. he didn't need it. Didn't want it. It bored him and was just wasting his time. He made his first million before turning 22 and has now passed 4 BILLION in terms of his net worth. He owns a piece of the Sixers (bought, not Trust Fund Money in his family) and has a retail empire, some of it tied into pro sports (Fanatics). He's never knocked education, but he has stated that it would have delayed him by years and years. he is one of the smartest (not M.I.T. "smart") people I've ever spoken to in person. Another buddy (who barely got through high school) just opened up his 25th Five Guys, to go along with a bunch of Rita's Water Ice's and Applebee's. He spoke to my son (which might have been a mistake in hindsight ) and now my kid wants to be a "business man". He lacks the direction that, obviously, guys like this, always had in their DNA.

Phew, my fingers are tired. But there is the unofficial MAC/Non-MAC/Value of Higher Education "Ranking". I truly believe that anybody can make a success (how "they", not how society, defines "success") of themselves, regardless of where they go to school and for some........................if they go to school..........................like my plumbing buddy, a mental midget of sorts growing up, who just put his 100th truck on the street last year. And yes...................I do trade his "fun money"

First time reading anything on this board ( I signed in to check up on DeSales BBall, I know most of the players/coaches).  This is the single best post I have read on any D3 board in 3 years.  Thanks

[gordonmann]

Combine DeSales and Del Val?

DeSalaware Valley University!

[Pat Coleman]

Delaware Valley University of St. Francis DeSales?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The third public NCAA Division III regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-third

[CCHoopster]

Mac Freedom Championship play begins tonight.


DeSales 86 home vs Del Val 70. This one won't be close

Wilkes 76 home vs Eastern 71. Home team with late free throws to ice it.

[kate]

To Gordon and Pat - perish the thought that the two institutions would EVER combine!   !    Believe you me, i was referring to food ONLY and the trappings for said food!   Ugh!  !

[saratoga]

I'm sensing Kate is not feeling the love of "like-mindedness". 

Come on up to a Lady Royal game Kate, you can sit in plush chairs or sofa's in the lobby surrounded by trophies from the past 100 years & enjoy the world famous Royal Dog's, pizza and an assortment of other munchies.

[CCHoopster]

Congrats DeSales. Clear class of the Freedom.

[kate]

Hello Saratoga!   We won't be up, but we will be watching!   Have fun!

[jmcozenlaw]

JM- factor in financial aid, cost, tradition, facilities, type of recruit generally, location, academics, major offerings etc... rate the MAC Freedom jobs. Go!

CC - That's such a tough. loaded question. I usually avoid comparisons, especially academic, as I've seen and learned over 30+ years, it really means so little in so many cases. I went to what some would call an "elite" (or snobby) school. There is zero, or even less than a zero percent chance that I would even sniff getting in to that school today. I'm being honest.........not a chance that I'd get even close to making the cut.

I've worked for two Fortune 50 CPG companies. I've been a consultant to senior level management at many CPG companies. I did feasibility studies for sports teams/ownership and state/city/county govt officials for stadiums, arenas and convention centers. I've managed money for higher income folks (portfolio minimum = 2.5 million / average portfolio = 6.87 million) and now do that for a handful of select accounts, while trading (primarily other people's "fun money") oil and nat gas.

My client list has, and still does, include grads of colleges and universities all over the map. My largest account? A former frat boy from that prestigious East Stroudsburg State College (back in the day). My second largest? One of Philadelphia's most successful attorney's........................and a graduate of Bloomsburg State College. I've got a huge account from a Holy Family University (most on this board couldn't tell me what that is or where it's at) grad.....................and on and on and on. Yes, I have a few Ivy League accounts as well as a few blue blood, trust fund, types of accounts. I have a big account from a couple who dropped out of Lock Haven State College and one who lasted all of six months at Villanova. My point to all of this is the following.

I've hired and fired folks from "elite" schools. I gave chances to hungry folks from "not-so-elite" schools. A buddy of mine unofficially retired, in his mid-40's, after starting and selling five companies. He received an engineering degree from, wait for it, Spring Garden College. It was a small school in Philly..................that hasn't even existed for a couple of decades (think of Upsala, before Upsala, closed).

I moved out to Doylestown almost 20 years ago and knew squatta about the MAC and Delaware Valley College. I thought it was a school where farmers went. 20 years later..................I've had my ankle and knee replaced...................by an ortho surgeon who happened to go to DelVal for his undergrad. My dogs go to the #1 rated vet in the five county area...................a DelVal grad (although I guess some say that makes sense because dogs are animals). The divorce lawyer who saved me went to DelVal/Temple (while my ex had a U of Penn/Penn Law grad) and he/we won in a 3rd round TKO.

After teaching a few classes at night, I really had a change of heart (especially relative to where I went). I love the schools who take chances on kids. Kids who might have but one or two chances to get out of bad places. I can't speak intelligently about most of the MAC schools, but given my 20 years in the area, I'd say this. If a high school senior has a real interest in the sciences, DelVal is an excellent choice. Pharma companies in the area eat up their chemistry, biochemistry and biology grads. An interest in becoming a doctor, dentist, or, especially, a veterinarian? Those grads get in to many of the best medical, dental and vet schools in the area and across the country. I'm not an animal person (other than owning dogs) but they were just ranked a Top 20 school, across the country, in animal sciences. I'm not into farming or any of that kind of stuff................but I'm glad that there is some people who are, as I love to eat and drink. A saw some type of report that showed some of the largest schools in the country (Penn State, Kansas State, Texas A&M and about 15 others, most in farming communities in the Midwest) actually have more ag and ag related majors than DelVal has in their entire undergrad population. That blew my mind as I've heard DelVal called an ag school in the past, but have never heard the word or phrase uttered once re: Penn State nor any of the other schools.

I run across people who brag about their schools...............average annual salaries, blah, blah, blah. I personally feel that is so misleading and counter-factual. Some kids want to go to school and come out and make a ton of money. Some kids actually want to make a difference. DelVal (and schools like it) crank out future teachers and administrators. Sure, when you factor in the salaries in the first few years, it is going to make the average artificially low. Some kids actually want to work for non-profits. Nobody is getting wealthy that way. Some kids want to go into law enforcement.......local or maybe the FBI. Those kids are never going to drive any school's average annual salary figure to the stratosphere.

I've taught finance classes at DelVal and four other local schools over the past 15 or so years. For the fifth consecutive year, DelVal has placed in the Top Ten (in 2017, out of 87 schools) in the State of PA for the highest percentage, first time pass rate for the CPA Exam. Another MAC school, Lycoming, has also been on the same Top Ten list all five years as well. Your eyes would bug out if you saw the schools that Lycoming and DelVal routinely "best" each year. Schools like Pitt, Penn State, Duqeunse, Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, F&M, Temple, as well as many smaller schools. This is not to imply that Lyco and DelVal are "better" schools than any of the listed schools, but, within both schools, there are options to really excel.

I haven't had the need for any counseling psychology services (although my divorce some years ago had me at the brink at times ) but I am friends with a lot of people who rave about DelVal's counseling psychology program (I didn't even know they had one). Widener has some excellent programs. Lyco has a nice business program. Misericordia has an awesome physical therapy program (I have a buddy who went there and he and his wife just opened up there sixth location). Many MAC schools have excellent nursing programs and while many might not aspire to that.........we are thankful when in the hospital and in need of nursing care. Most students don't go to Ivy League schools, nor Duke, Stanford or M.I.T. to come out and teach...........but we are all so very thankful for living in great public school districts (or paying for private schools) and understand the critical nature of teachers and their impact on our children. We have great demands on them, while most of us had no interest (as we chased the money) to do it ourselves. If I could go back, I'd teach and coach in a heartbeat. Become a principal and then a superintendent. Marry a woman with the same life plan, and in the Council Rock and CB school districts, make our $600K-650K combined with great benefits for life.

The facilities thing is interesting but if you've been around the MAC, many middle schools have nice gyms. Eastern's gym is a bad grade school gym. DeSales gym has bleachers about six rows high. Manhattanville is a heaping mess. FDU is kind of a semi-dump. DelVal is actually OK compared to those. King's and Wilkes are nice and clean. Miser's is just strange. Nice, but strange. I actually like Arcadia's very much. Widener is bleh. LebVal is very nice. Messiah is gorgeous. I've been to 150+ D3 gyms. Wesley's might be the worst. It's Beirut meets Cairo. LBC is clean, but tiny. Bryn Athyn has to be seen to be imagined. One can not describe it. Give me the kid who will bust it in average facilities vs. the kid who loves the big, beautiful weight room (while he and most the football team rarely use it). Give me the kid who has that 'dog' in him, who likes that underdog mantra, who has a lot of doubters, on and off the field. What DelVal has done for 15+ years with their football program, with THOSE facilities, speaks a ton about the coaches and the kids.

I can't really rank anything, but I wanted to give you a flavor for how I see the world, through my experiences, regarding education. I met a guy last month (through a friend) who dropped out of college after a couple of months. he didn't need it. Didn't want it. It bored him and was just wasting his time. He made his first million before turning 22 and has now passed 4 BILLION in terms of his net worth. He owns a piece of the Sixers (bought, not Trust Fund Money in his family) and has a retail empire, some of it tied into pro sports (Fanatics). He's never knocked education, but he has stated that it would have delayed him by years and years. he is one of the smartest (not M.I.T. "smart") people I've ever spoken to in person. Another buddy (who barely got through high school) just opened up his 25th Five Guys, to go along with a bunch of Rita's Water Ice's and Applebee's. He spoke to my son (which might have been a mistake in hindsight ) and now my kid wants to be a "business man". He lacks the direction that, obviously, guys like this, always had in their DNA.

Phew, my fingers are tired. But there is the unofficial MAC/Non-MAC/Value of Higher Education "Ranking". I truly believe that anybody can make a success (how "they", not how society, defines "success") of themselves, regardless of where they go to school and for some........................if they go to school..........................like my plumbing buddy, a mental midget of sorts growing up, who just put his 100th truck on the street last year. And yes...................I do trade his "fun money"

First time reading anything on this board ( I signed in to check up on DeSales BBall, I know most of the players/coaches).  This is the single best post I have read on any D3 board in 3 years.  Thanks

Thanks Oline!!! Single best post on any D3 board in 3 years? I'm blushing (let's keep the NESCAC folks away from reading it though as they would mock it, while knowing it's true, ego would get in the way )

Trading during the day......................and I'd cover D3 sports (football and basketball) for Pat, FOR FREE, if he needed or wanted the help!

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks Oline!!! Single best post on any D3 board in 3 years? I'm blushing (let's keep the NESCAC folks away from reading it though as they would mock it, while knowing it's true, ego would get in the way )

Trading during the day......................and I'd cover D3 sports (football and basketball) for Pat, FOR FREE, if he needed or wanted the help!

I know what you mean.  +1!

... and I agree about "hungry kids" who just want a chance. McMurry, my alma mater, is a real "first generation" school.  There are no BMW's in the student parking lot.
I am coming up on 20 years on these boards, myself.  It has been and still is fun.

Gotta have a day job, tho'.