MBB: MAC Freedom League

[phil]

Knightstalker,
Given what is currently happening within the MAC, I couldn't say for sure TCNJ would be turned away.

Gregory,
TCNJ was speaking with the MAC back in December. It might be a longshot, but I'd still like TCNJ to be among like-minded schools – public affiliation be damned. Newest freshman class averages 1322 on the SATs. What other MAC schools can say that? Meanwhile in Jersey, schools like Rowan, Montclair and Kean look to expand up to 18,000 students ... then there's the question of whether Montclair and Rowan even intend to participate in D3 athletics in the not-too-distant future.

[NEPAFAN]

I wonder why the Mac would say no then. Sounds like a good fit.

[Gregory Sager]

TCNJ was speaking with the MAC back in December. It might be a longshot, but I'd still like TCNJ to be among like-minded schools – public affiliation be damned. Newest freshman class averages 1322 on the SATs. What other MAC schools can say that? Meanwhile in Jersey, schools like Rowan, Montclair and Kean look to expand up to 18,000 students ... then there's the question of whether Montclair and Rowan even intend to participate in D3 athletics in the not-too-distant future.

With test scores like that, Phil, why aim for the MAC? Why not try to get into the Centennial?

It still doesn't look to me as though TCNJ and the MAC Freedom schools have all that much in common besides a liberal arts orientation and D3 affiliation. People will focus upon the fact that TCNJ is public and the MACF schools are private, and I'm sure that that's the major sticking point. But the institutional differences seem to go a lot deeper, especially since the seven remaining MACF schools are all remarkably alike in profile. All have an undergraduate enrollment between 1,500 and 2,000 except for Scranton's 4,000 (TCNJ's is 5,900). All have an endowment ranging from $35m to $101m, except for relative pauper Delaware Valley's $14m (TCNJ's is $6.9m). All cost anywhere from $28,580/yr to $33,931/yr to attend (TCNJ costs $7,051/yr for Jerseyites, $12,314/yr for out-of-staters). And all are moderately selective, with acceptance rates in the 72% to 89% range (TCNJ, which is far more selective, is at 45%).

The Lions also kick butt in any number of sports, and I'm not sure that the athletics braintrust at the MAC Freedom schools would welcome having a newcomer pile-drive them into the ground in various sports ranging from baseball to women's soccer. TCNJ currently leads all of D3 in the Director's Cup standings, and the highest-ranked current MACF member is Scranton ... way back in 81st place.

I'm rooting for your alma mater to get into the MACF, Phil, since it looks like the NJAC is becoming more and more untenable every year. Besides, life would sure get a lot more interesting for you as a Lions fan if you got to be a part of the legendary hijinks of the MAC Freedom room. Heck, you might even get enlisted as a contestant in MAC Freedom Survivor if Adam ever revives it. As you've said yourself, the NJAC room has gotten awfully tame over the last couple of years.

But TCNJ doesn't look like all that great a fit for this league. You might have to hope that the MAC as a whole really gets desperate for another member.

[phil]

Gregory,
If the MAC couldn't accept a public school which excels in athletics and in the classroom, I doubt the Centennial would ... and that would be putting it mildly. France would sooner declare Velveeta the national cheese. I'll have to be satisfied when I see any given TCNJ athletic team apply said pile-driver to the occasional Centennial team (which more often than not has lower academic standards than my lowly, public school alma-mater). The baseball team's current 5-0 record against the Centennial, including 26-1 and 16-5 victories over Haverford, come to mind.

I can't be convinced that TCNJ is currently a better fit in the NJAC than the MAC – or Centennial for that matter.

With the upheaval of the MAC I thought the powers-that-be might be willing to overlook cost and enrollment in favor of selectivity, academics and geography. Let's face it, when it comes to shopping for teams to add to your conference, you have a finite regional list.

As far as the quality of TCNJ athletics is concerned, yes, TCNJ would probably dominate in a few sports. However, football and basketball aren't among them. Messiah (talk about a tiny school stressing athletics!!!) has dominated the national soccer scene – adding the Lions would just strengthen the conference in this sport – and TCNJ would finally have a conference for their men's tennis, golf, wrestling, women's lax and swimming teams to play in.

...and most importantly, and to your point, my witty repartee is a far better fit in the MACF than the NJAC. I bet the MAC officials failed to take that into consideration!!!

All kidding aside, should the NJAC fall apart, I wonder where the pieces would fall?

[Knightstalker]

I could see Rowan, MSU and possibly Ramapo moving to a lower division.  I think Kean, WPU, NJCU, Both Rutgers and Stockton would try to stay together.  I would hope everyone learned a lesson from NJCU's bid to leave the NJAC.  Possibly if things were to change some of the SUNY schools like Farmingdale and Purchase would be interested.

[bill]

Phil
I agree with you. (I have no inside info of this, though) While the women's MAC sport coaches will not be thrilled, I definately can see CNJ in the MAC in the relative near future, especially if the Rowan building thing continues...
At the risk of academic snobbery, let's face it. I don't think any of the MAC schools compete with CNJ for recruits except on an occaisonal basis. FDU has had some cross-recruiting in football, but that's about it. I would welcome CNJ to the MAC...

[bill]

Also - for Greg

I wish FDU had an endowment of over 35 million...you might want to check that one. I think we're more like 20 million!

[bill]

OK, last post, I promise

FDU's 2006 endowment, according to US News, is about $13 Million....Not good!

[Gregory Sager]

I was going by the latest figures from Peterson's for my figures. The one MACF school whose endowment wasn't listed by Peterson's was FDU.

Is that $13m figure for the entire university, or just the Florham branch?

[bill]

Gregory

Unfortunately, that's the total endowment.
As you may know, FDU is one strange animal when it comes to a university. Most do not seperate our "stats", which make the "College at Florham" look worse than it is. This campus actually has different admissions standards (higher), costs, majors than the other. Then, things get reported and jumbled together. It's kind of frustrating because this campus is primarily a liberal arts/business school, with the majority of students full-time on campus students. This campus is not a commuter school, like the other...
It's certainly a school in search of itself. Every few years, we change logos, colors, and mission statements. Since 1998, we've changed school colors three times!
One of these days, they'll get it right, and the sleeping giant will be awakened....

[Warren Thompson]

Since 1998, we've changed school colors three times!

OK, Bill, FDU/Florham is now blue [navy?] and dark red [crimson?]; earlier, I believe the Devils sported navy and light blue. What was the third color combination? We uniform freaks need to know .... * 

------------------------------------

* BTW are you aware of an organization called the Society for Sports Uniform Research? They do a remarkable job of tracing uniform history for all sports.

[phil]

Warren,
Welcome home. I trust the blue highways were good to you.

Bill,
You can dial up any number of uniform/logo color combinations. I just look forward to the day I can make the 10 minute drive from Chatham to watch TCNJ compete in a variety of regular season athletic contests against FDU Florham/Madison (how in the world you guys can't decide what town you're in I'll never know ... unless Florham Park's officials made it worth it to alter your letterhead$).

[Warren Thompson]

Warren,
Welcome home. I trust the blue highways were good to you.

Bill,
You can dial up any number of uniform/logo color combinations. I just look forward to the day I can make the 10 minute drive from Chatham to watch TCNJ compete in a variety of regular season athletic contests against FDU Florham/Madison (how in the world you guys can't decide what town you're in I'll never know ... unless Florham Park's officials made it worth it to alter your letterhead$).

Yes, the "blue highways" were good, as were the other colors. But after a while, one gets weary of playing tag with 18-wheelers.

Jacksonville, Florida, is kind of like Philadelphia with palm trees and Spanish moss. Savannah was better, though it's very "touristy."

BTW where does one "dial up" those uniform color combinations?

[bill]

Warren (and other uniform freaks)

1. Navy blue, columbia, and white
2. black and an almost aquamarine like color - think jacksonville jaguars
3. Navy and cardinal

amazing, isn't it?

As for the town, we were always "FDU-Madison", because the front gate is actually in Madison. Besides the gate, and 3 athletic fields (NOT the football field), the rest of the campus is in Florham Park.
The braintrust thought that the "College at Florham" sounded more collegiate, I guess. The funny thing is the newspapers still report the scores as "FDU-Florham", or "FDU-Madison".

Like I said before, I too think CNJ will be in the MAC in the not too future. I welcome it, although the arguement could be made that it might hurt FDU the most of all the MAC schools (though I don't agree with that)

We shall see!

[bill]

By the way, what happened to all of the "old" posts before the sites were changed? I seem to think I posted quite a bit back then...Then I started over a few years ago at zero.....?