2012 Division III NCAA Tournament

[pbrooks3]

Let me help you out Old School - Centre won against Trinity 72-57 in the championship of the SCAC today.  

[Greek Tragedy]

Let me help you out Old School - Centre won against Trinity 72-57 in the championship of the SCAC today.  

I got lazy and didn't update it, figured everyone knew that already! Thanks though. 

[David Collinge]

There's a lot of unhappiness around Posting Up tonight, and it is understandable.  Many of us can't conceive of how this team or that could be left out, or how this conference got slighted relative to that conference.  There's a lot of criticism of the pool structure, and QoWI, and the emphasis on regional play, and above all, cries about how the tournament should be the "best" 59 teams but isn't.  All of these are valid complaints, at least to some degree.

I just want to point out that the NCAA is not some collection of alien beings that just landed on Earth and imposed this structure on us (even if it feels that way sometimes), "they is us" (to paraphrase Walt Kelly, below).  If you don't like the way our tournament is set up, if you think it is unfair, then let your athletic director or, better still, your college president know.  Because when you talk to your college president, you're talking to the NCAA.  We have imposed this structure on ourselves, and if it is as horribly flawed as some people seem to believe, it can be changed.

I offer my congratulations to those of you whose teams got bids tonight , and I extend my sympathy to those whose teams' seasons ended tonight. 

[miacwatchmen]

I have a question. Why doesn't the NCAA expand the field of teams to 64 like the D-I and D-II tourney?

[tigerphil]

Well, I think I want to add to the debate. My biggest concern is why do the Women get 63 bids and the men only 59? Why do five special teams get a bye and the other 54 have to play? Wouldn't it be best if the field were extended to 64 so that no teams got a bye and you could add 5 more pool C bids to allow more teams to get in? I don't like the why did this team get in and this team not get in debate or why does this conference have three teams and this one four and another one only one, because I have no clue what the selection committee is thinking or debating when they make their selection. However, I just think in all fairness to all teams, that no team should have a bye in the NCAA tournament. I think it could hurt the top seeded teams (I fully beleive it hurt Hampden-Sydney, the year following thier National Runner Up, when they were 27-1 entering the tournament with a first round bye only to lose in the second round). I truly think that the tournament may need to be looked at a little differently. This is just food for thought, and if any one can answer me about the difference between men's and women's that would be great. (I truly hope it isn't because there are 73 all Women's Colleges which creates 4 more bids for the tournament).

GO HSC TIGERS and ODAC TEAMS

[sac]

I have a question. Why doesn't the NCAA expand the field of teams to 64 like the D-I and D-II tourney?

http://d3hoops.com/faq.php

[Greek Tragedy]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Ralph Turner]

With the exception of the UAA and the SCIAC (did I miss one), the Road to Salem/Springfield began with the conference tourneys.  There must have been 200-250 teams that began tourney play.

We have fair access to the conference slot.  Please listen to the Coach Brett Adams at VJC talk on Hoopsville tonight about how the NCAA improved access with the current Pool system, which prompted the creation of the NEAC from 12 independents which had trouble getting games, and then you can appreciate the work-in-progress.

You think that it is tough in your conference.  We have 15 teams in the ASC.  I am curious to see how far we get this year.  There is not likely to be a much better conference for women's basketball (maybe the UAA or the WIAC or the state of Maine), but at least we have access.  I am sure that Howard Payne and someone will play before 3500 for the right to move on.  (Yes, 3850 attended today for the conference finals.  Some teams don't play before that many fans at home in a season!) 

[sac]

I remember the years where the smaller conferences basically had no chance to even get a team in the tournament, so Ralph has a good point. 

Access is fine, but the limitations on the field are what drives most people nuts.  The cutback to the 48 team field practically coinciding with an increase in access a few years ago, meant a lot of really good D3 teams and their athletes were denied access because of a system full of inequities in its selection process.  The increase to 59 is at the very least a small start, but the system has a long way to go to consistently get the best teams in the tournament.

I'm really really hoping the introduction of the "new qowi" which is supposed to resemble an rpi rating will help a bunch.  I just find it amazing teams like UW Oshkosh, LaCrosse, Elmhurst etc etc get left home for teams from other regions that just arent very good.

This year has just been crazy..........with the Pool C clerical error, mysterious "in-region" mileage determinations........it leaves alot to be desired.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I have a question. Why doesn't the NCAA expand the field of teams to 64 like the D-I and D-II tourney?

It is, slowly.  We get one tourney slot for every 6.5 teams (I think).  As d3 grows, the tourney is gradually headed for 64 teams.

David, a good voice of reason, as always.  I have no complaint about not being the 'best' 59 teams (the d1 tourney is not the 'best' 65 either).  I have no bone to pick with Pool A - they won their conference, they deserve a shot.  It's true that many are just a 'speed bump' for much stronger teams in the first round, but so what?  No 16-seed has ever won a game in the d1 tourney (though a few have put in a real scare), and only 2 15s have ever won a game, but the occasional David slays Goliath (or even the possibility) is a key part of 'March Madness'.  We are a bit hampered having 37 AQs in a 59-team tourney (vs. 20-something in a 65-team tourney in d1), but so be it.

My complaint is with both the criteria for selection of Bs and Cs, and the seemingly incompetent application of those criteria.  Regional criteria (whether winning %, QOWI, or whatever) for a national tournament is simply illogical, unless you make the untenable assumption that all regions are exactly equal.  Since they obviously are not, a 9.5 QOWI and a .7 RW% in a strong region almost certainly reflects a stronger team than a 10.5 QOWI and .8 RW% in a weak region.  But the 10.5, .8 team is a lock; the 9.5, .7 team goes home.  

As far as incompetent application of the rules, I won't even belabor the mileage disputes or the sudden discovery that there were only 18, not 19, C bids days before selection.  But the clear intent of the highest level of QOWI was 2/3 or more wins; for the NCAA to decide that .66666666 was not .667 or above is insane.  I don't know how many teams that affects, but with final regional records of 10-5, 12-6, 14-7, 16-8, there must be dozens.  And every one of their opponents has a lower QOWI than the rules seemingly called for.  If, in fact, QOWI is gone, good riddance!  Though if it comes back as basically QOWI with opponents' opponents records added, that may just add more ways to screw it up!

[Ralph Turner]

I think that parity has set in.  And, it is hard for the old timers to accept that there is very little difference in D3.

diehardfan, what did you think of Miss College and UMHB/McM/HSU on the video feed?

Would the CCIW have trouble traveling the 10 hours by bus from those locations to Clinton to play a game?

I contend that playing within 300 miles of your fan base thru the first four rounds is worth 6-10 points.  That is an unfair advantage for the "Power Conferences" that will never be resolved at this level.

[diehardfan]

I have no complaint about not being the 'best' 59 teams (the d1 tourney is not the 'best' 65 either).  I have no bone to pick with Pool A - they won their conference, they deserve a shot. 

Well, I must admit being a little miffed that the #3 CCIW team (Wheaton) beat the GNAC's A bid (Rivier) by 16 in December when we were without Kent Raymond (www.wheaton.edu/Athletics/mbasketball/stats/mwhe10.htm) and the #2 CCIW team (Elmhurst) doesn't get a shot, but I'll live.

I care much more about things like the ridiculously large conferences (like the ASC) getting only one bid... There are enough teams in each division for them to each get an A... and i think it should happen. There has to be some way to make it more like the MACC and MACF even if it's just for basketball. I think the way that the C's are handed out is silly too but so does everyone so no need to elaborate.

Incidentally, while I have some serious allegiances as well obviously, I'm totally cheering for Coast Guard to win it all, just because I think it would be funny.

[PrideSportBBallGuy]

I applied my formula and ranked the field of 59.  Lake Erie is high, but based on QOWI its not so high.  I thought about putting them into brackets, but I am not sure of the mileage. Once I see the brackets I will post my Final 4.  (Is d3hoops doing that contest thing again this year.
(* 201-78 W for Lincoln was removed.)


1   Wooster   14.84215352
2   Amherst   14.56512278
3   Hope   14.24222655
4   UW-Stevens Point   14.02627738
5   Lake Erie   13.44622987
6   Virginia Wesleyan   13.1540127
7   Aurora   13.01331938
8   Salem St.   12.6848944
9   Maryville(TN)   12.52194949
10   St. Thomas   12.37295119
11   Mississippi College   11.9047045
12   Brockport   11.82629338
13   Whitworth   11.60697971
14   Manhattanville   11.49294661
15   Rhode Island College   11.47911829
16   Worchester Polytech   11.45503703
17   Alvernia   11.31190353
18   Trinity(Conn)   11.11951886
19   Keene St   11.04822477
20   Centre   10.82117966
21   St. John Fisher   10.74542863
22   Occidental   10.64257177
23   Villa Julie   10.40472644
24   Augustana   10.39154247
25   John Hopkins   10.38748132
26   Stevens   10.36394837
27   Messiah   10.33175899
28   DePauw   10.31682197
29   Loras   9.904831834
30   Lincoln*   9.805109399
31   Elms   9.748877525
32   Washington U.   9.359745842
33   Guilford   9.285715611
34   Mary-Hardin Baylor   9.246396676
35   Chicago   9.149282654
36   St. John's    9.133425495
37   Ramapo   9.074614196
38   Catholic   8.932990267
39   Calvin   8.720380074
40   Kings   8.710195731
41   Averett   8.548856
42   St. Lawrence   8.426287549
43   Rochester   8.381033632
44   Hood   8.367017907
45   Brandeis   8.136797286
46   Capital   7.853704032
47   Westminster(PA)   7.770769539
48   Transylvania   7.526575
49   York (N.Y)   7.510411386
50   Fontbonne   7.32479926
51   John Carroll   7.191168037
52   Plattsburgh St   6.725100698
53   Carroll   6.66075919
54   Rivier   6.243396357
55   Williams   5.781791538
56   Hampden-Sydney   4.729802165
57   Wentworth Tech   4.227690294
58   Widener   3.857946663
59   Coast Guard   3.633023026

[Pat Coleman]

Yes, we will do a pick 'em.

[sac]

Go Coast Guard.........Bears ?

How can Coast Guard not have a nautical nickname?

CG lost 7 of 8 games going into their tournament, then beat 3 teams who they had a 1-5 record against.

Interesting that other than a 17 point loss in their first game to Chicago, their largest margin of defeat was 12 and 10 points.........otherwise everything is under 10.  Including 3 2 pointers, 2 1 pointers and an OT game.

Not such a bye afterall.