2012 Division III NCAA Tournament

[diehardfan]

I think that parity has set in.  And, it is hard for the old timers to accept that there is very little difference in D3.

diehardfan, what did you think of Miss College and UMHB/McM/HSU on the video feed?

Would the CCIW have trouble traveling the 10 hours by bus from those locations to Clinton to play a game?

I contend that playing within 300 miles of your fan base thru the first four rounds is worth 6-10 points.  That is an unfair advantage for the "Power Conferences" that will never be resolved at this level.

I must admit to doing a couple other things at the same time so I didn't see a full 80 minutes. I did watch quite a bit though and basically liked what I saw though, and have a feeling you will win a few games. While I'm not convinced you're on the level of Elmhurst (the only CCIW team I saw this year besides Wheaton), or St Thomas (the best West Region team I saw this year) I do think you're probably as good as Hope and other similar level Great Lakes teams as they are this year. I hope Miss College gets to host a sectional, and that money is not a factor against clear numbers and results in this instance. If you host a sectional, it gives you a good shot at Salem and it will give me an even better chance to evaluate (always easier to do it in person, despite a good stream).

Of course a 10 hr bus ride completely stinks, and traveling teams never do as well, reffing style, exhaustion, time differences, all come into play. But, I don't think it's fair what you said on the ASC board about Wheaton because we beat all the Texas teams we played that year (Trinity, Southwestern, and UT-Dallas) by more than 10... and they were stronger then than they are now. Perhaps you are thinking of Augustana? I don't remember what they did... though I believe they did still win. In that cause the CCIW teams were also the ones that traveled the long distances, and would be at the disadvantage, as traveling teams so often are. Yet they still won, and that's the mark of a great team as opposed to a very good team, right?

[pg04]

Crrrrrrrrazy picks!!  All the tournament spoilers had a profound impact as expected...

Good Luck to all teams in the tournament it should be an exciting few weeks!!

[Ralph Turner]

I think that parity has set in.  And, it is hard for the old timers to accept that there is very little difference in D3.

diehardfan, what did you think of Miss College and UMHB/McM/HSU on the video feed?

Would the CCIW have trouble traveling the 10 hours by bus from those locations to Clinton to play a game?

I contend that playing within 300 miles of your fan base thru the first four rounds is worth 6-10 points.  That is an unfair advantage for the "Power Conferences" that will never be resolved at this level.

I must admit to doing a couple other things at the same time so I didn't see a full 80 minutes. I did watch quite a bit though and basically liked what I saw though, and have a feeling you will win a few games. While I'm not convinced you're on the level of Elmhurst (the only CCIW team I saw this year besides Wheaton), or St Thomas (the best West Region team I saw this year) I do think you're probably as good as Hope and other similar level Great Lakes teams as they are this year. I hope Miss College gets to host a sectional, and that money is not a factor against clear numbers and results in this instance. If you host a sectional, it gives you a good shot at Salem and it will give me an even better chance to evaluate (always easier to do it in person, despite a good stream).

Of course a 10 hr bus ride completely stinks, and traveling teams never do as well, reffing style, exhaustion, time differences, all come into play. But, I don't think it's fair what you said on the ASC board about Wheaton because we beat all the Texas teams we played that year (Trinity, Southwestern, and UT-Dallas) by more than 10... and they were stronger then than they are now. Perhaps you are thinking of Augustana? I don't remember what they did... though I believe they did still win. In that cause the CCIW teams were also the ones that traveled the long distances, and would be at the disadvantage, as traveling teams so often are. Yet they still won, and that's the mark of a great team as opposed to a very good team, right?

Actually, I saw Wheaton at the University of Dallas, which got a Pool B bid at 13-12 that year.

Sul Ross beat both UDallas and Trinity to move to the Sweet 16 where they blew a 17 point lead over Lawrence and lost in OT.  Lawrence lost to UWSP in OT that year.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I think that parity has set in.  And, it is hard for the old timers to accept that there is very little difference in D3.

If by parity, you mean there are more good teams, and coming from more conferences, I won't argue with you. 

But "very little difference in D3"??!!  While I'm uncertain on the number, there are many conferences who have NEVER won a tournament game.  With apologies to my friends on that board, we joke that IWU (back when we would win! ) always got a first-round bye - it was called the SLIAC champion.

If we leave out the teams in 'lesser' conferences getting AQs, I'd imagine that there are no more than 100 teams annually with any realistic shot at the tournament, and which 100 it is has at most very slow turnover.

[jammer]

Utica' got the short end of a timid field. Although,  they did lose 5 of their last 8 games, and 3 of 4. But, they also did have 19 wins, demonstrated how good they were with wins over Fisher, and SUNY, Oswego as well. Their losses were 2 to fisher, 1 hamilton, clarkson, which are not bad obviously, and respectable to say the least. The other losses were ****ty, in that the teams were terrible. With that being said those losses should not have kept them out of the field when Brockport plays their schedule and get in, U of R, Plattsburgh also. This team took and should have beat Fisher in the finals of the E8, it took overtime and yes it was nobody but Utica's fault but they did display that they should be elected part of the 2007 NCAA tournement. Hurting them was Williams winning as well as Coast Gaurd. What does anyone think about them getting in, have those teams not come up with the upsets that they did.

I just really think that after the performence that put on last year they should have been considered as a team that is IN, not OUT. Not that teams are bid on for last years squad doings, but this years, and considering the circumstances for the last two years they share a lot in common to say the least as a whole for the field. Other teams out of the East that got a bid, with all respect to them I believe that they are not as qualified in some of the most important areas that a team gets in on, and that is why I am posting this whining blog. Ha. Yes I do know that they people(s) who pick the field are aware of everything and are as fair as can be, just looking for a little feedback on Utica's denail to the 07' tourney. Thanks!

[Pat Coleman]

Utica' got the short end of a timid field.

Nah. This is not an injustice. You said it yourself, they lost five of eight, three of four. The numbers are available on the QOWI board that tell you where Utica ranked in the selection criteria. It's not just a "raw number of wins" ranking.

[sac]

50   9.632   9   Lewis and Clark   0.737 (14-5)   19-7
51   9.625   8   Guilford   0.833 (20-4)   21-452   9.619   5   Ohio Northern   0.667 (14-7)   19-7
53   9.609   7   Plattsburgh State   0.739 (17-6)   20-8
54   9.583   9   McMurry   0.792 (19-5)   20-7
55   9.520   4   New Jersey City   0.680 (17-8)   18-9
56   9.481   6   Capital   0.704 (19-8)   19-8--POOL A
57   9.478   5   Elmhurst   0.739 (17-6)   21-6
58   9.458   9   Villa Julie   0.750 (18-6)   20-7 POOL A
59   9.458   10   DeSales   0.708 (17-7)   19-8
60   9.450   7   Westminster (Pa.)   0.800 (16-4)   18-8 POOL B
61   9.400   8   Utica   0.720 (18-7)   19-7
62   9.364   8   Wittenberg   0.773 (17-5)   22-5
63   9.360   10   Tufts   0.600 (15-10)   15-10


There are probably at least 10 teams higher than Utica that weren't selected for a Pool  C bid, your 9 spots lower than Guilford who I believe has the lowest qowi among C's.  I imagine Utica wasn't even on the table.

A qowi of 9.4 won't get it done in any year.

[jammer]

WOW, okay thank you I did not realize that they were that low on the QOWI, so I guess we would have been struggling to get in even if we won the 3 games at the end of the year. Correct? Its to bad we didn't win the E8 just to see how we would match up in comparison to last year. Another question, how come we got looked at and put in last year with the year we had? Didn't seem much more significant that this year. Thank you for any responses.

[superman57]

Utica had every chance to host the tourny and to win the tourny and they pulled the old choke job...you say that they have good wins, not really, the struggled to beat a young fisher team in double ot, and then Proceed to lose to RIT and Ithaca at home...can't do that and expect to get an at large bid in a year where a lot of great teams lost in the tourny's....

[sac]

WOW, okay thank you I did not realize that they were that low on the QOWI, so I guess we would have been struggling to get in even if we won the 3 games at the end of the year. Correct? Its to bad we didn't win the E8 just to see how we would match up in comparison to last year. Another question, how come we got looked at and put in last year with the year we had? Didn't seem much more significant that this year. Thank you for any responses.

Last year Utica had a better in-region record, and probably a better qowi.  If you want to pick losses that hurt Utica this year I think Ithaca, Alfred and RIT losses really hurt your qowi and of course in-region.  Win a couple of those and Utica is probably at the very least discussed for a C, most certainly would have been in better shape than they ended up.

EDIT:  If I'm doing the math right, each extra win would have improved qowi by .3, so only 2 more W's gets Utica in the 10.0 range and that most certainly have got them in the tournament.

[fcnews]

Throw me a bone someone. Please. Where do you see Fontbonne University in this mess. What does the elimination from Pat's Midwest Region do? How will they fill the south and will MS. College receive a bye?

[Pat Coleman]

The map suggests they can get to Mississippi College without a flight. (I say suggests because I am hesitant to speak in absolutes regarding the NCAA and maps anymore.)

If they can get to Mississippi College then the NCAA will put them there.

[AndOne]

I've read a lot about here about how many hours a team should reasonably have to be subjected to a bus ride in the national tournament.

1. Is there any NCAA "standard" ?

2. How may hours does everyone think is reasonable?

[gacbacker]

Wow, a lot of sympathy on the part of D3hoops.com for the WIAC huh? The caption under the front page photo regarding St. Thomas is a little misleading isn't it, considering that St. Thomas was playing without a pre season first team All-American in Isaac Rosefelt?

[Pat Coleman]

Not really. The point is that UW-La Crosse is not in the tournament, and to identify them in the picture when St. Thomas is the only school that's easily identifiable.

If you spent any time at all on the men's boards you'd know that I was telling anyone who would listen in December that Rosefelt did not play in the game. I took a fair amount of crap for it at the time.