2012 Division III NCAA Tournament

[deiscanton]

If the Williams v SUNYIT game was a UAA conference game instead of an NCAA tournament game, Williams would have tied Chicago's record for most 3's made by a team in a game, and the two teams combined would have broken the combined teams record for most 3's made in a game by 1 3 pointer.

The NESCAC does not have a performance record book on their conference website, but it wouldn't surprise me if Williams set some NESCAC single game records on the 3 pt shooting side this season.

I'll have to see if Brandeis can bring Williams down to a pace of game that the Judges can hope to win tonight.  If Williams makes 11 or more 3's tonight, Brandeis is in trouble....

(Just trying to analyze the situation, but speaking as a Brandeis fan, 'Deis should be up to the challenge....)

[magicman]

Williams leads Brandeis 35-32 at the half. Schultz with 12 and Wang with 10 for Williams. Hughes with 8 leads Brandeis.

[nescac1]

Does anyone have a general idea what time the Friday games usually are in Salem?  And what time, generally, the Saturday game is?   Also if folks have recommendations for a cheap hotel near the arena ... and good places to eat in the area, it would be much appreciated!

Brandeis and SUNYIT were night and day in terms of defense.  Williams had wide open looks all day vs. SUNYIT.  Brandeis gave the Ephs basically NO easy three's, Brandeis barely crashed the offensive boards outside of Hollins, so there were no fast break 3's, and they extended their defense WAY out on the perimeter, relying on their quickness.  It took the Ephs awhile to figure it out, but once they started driving and getting the ball inside, they finally started to get (and knock down) easier looks.  They ATTEMPTED four less three's than they made vs. SUNYIT.  Whittington was a key guy as Brandeis could not guard him one-on-one (few can) and they didn't seem willing to double and risk the long ball.  Kudos to Brandeis for a gritty, gutty performance, they really made the Ephs work. 

Hope to meet some of the regular posters here in my first trip to Salem!  Go Ephs!  Guilford vs. Williams looks like a great, very even match-up on paper, considering each have stars at the 1, 3, and 5 (Williams has a two-headed monster at the five, but they combine for production just a tad less than Sanborn's) ...  the role players may end up deciding it.  

[Ralph Turner]

Wow! I make some observations of the UTD UWSP game about

-- how tight it was,
-- how #5 UWSP before 2375 fans (2300 for UWSP and 75 for UT-Dallas?) could not put away #19 UTD,
-- that UTD's 1-3-1 zone gave UWSP problems
-- that UTD was playing without its best player (IMHO) Brandon Green and another solid senior staring forward Jimmy Witten
-- and that I asked for quantification of home court advantage and that one should probably consider that home court advantage may for UWSP may have been 6 points when one considers the plane flight and travel for UTD and the overwhelming crowd disparity in favor of UWSP.  UTD had not played before 2300 fans this season. (UTDallas' 64-72 loss at D1 UT-Arlington was only played before 632 fans on Jan 3rd.)

I commented that 6 points makes that a different game if a team is holding off a team versus the lead changing hands.  UWSP hit their 7-8 FT's down the stretch.  The "foul-fest" may not occur if the lead is changing hands.

The UWSP game write-up highlighted the tightness of the game and the challenges that the Pointers faced and met against the Comets.  From 13:13 to the end of the game, the UWSP margin was 5-4-7-6-4-6-5-3-5 until the "foul-fest" that the article mentions in the last 1:43.

I got an opinion by Titan Q and then got 7 smites over the day from fans who did not like what I said, but did not have the vocabulary or the analytical skills to discuss the points that I made.

UWSP web page on the Pointer-Comet game

The fans in the midwest may give lip-service to the travel disparities that plague the teams outside the Illinois-Wisconsin cocoon at tournament time, but travel is huge.  (I hope that Whitworth had a chance to adjust to its 3PM PST game with EMU.  The Pirates had not had a 3pm PST tip-off since January 3rd.)

I never expected that response (the smiting and absence of a cogent response) that I received on the WIAC boards.

If a team has the athletes that UTD has and more depth than that "beat-up" Comet team did last night, then that game video may be quite instructive.  

[Pat Coleman]

Friday's games are 5 and 7 p.m., while the title game is at 1 on Saturday. (Women have the second game this year, for TV purposes.)

[Greek Tragedy]

Ralph,

Don't lose sleep over being smited.  

I don't do Karma, so it wasn't me!  

I think it just came out wrong or the timing was wrong.  UT-Dallas loses and then you bring up flights and crowds.  What did you expect?! 

[frodotwo]

Wow! I make some observations of the UTD UWSP game about

-- how tight it was,
-- how #5 UWSP before 2375 fans (2300 for UWSP and 75 for UT-Dallas?) could not put away #19 UTD,
-- that UTD's 1-3-1 zone gave UWSP problems
-- that UTD was playing without its best player (IMHO) Brandon Green and another solid senior staring forward Jimmy Witten
-- and that I asked for quantification of home court advantage and that one should probably consider that home court advantage may for UWSP may have been 6 points when one considers the plane flight and travel for UTD and the overwhelming crowd disparity in favor of UWSP.  UTD had not played before 2300 fans this season. (UTDallas' 64-72 loss at D1 UT-Arlington was only played before 632 fans on Jan 3rd.)

I commented that 6 points makes that a different game if a team is holding off a team versus the lead changing hands.  UWSP hit their 7-8 FT's down the stretch.  The "foul-fest" may not occur if the lead is changing hands.

The UWSP game write-up highlighted the tightness of the game and the challenges that the Pointers faced and met against the Comets.  From 13:13 to the end of the game, the UWSP margin was 5-4-7-6-4-6-5-3-5 until the "foul-fest" that the article mentions in the last 1:43.

I got an opinion by Titan Q and then got 7 smites over the day from fans who did not like what I said, but did not have the vocabulary or the analytical skills to discuss the points that I made.

UWSP web page on the Pointer-Comet game

The fans in the midwest may give lip-service to the travel disparities that plague the teams outside the Illinois-Wisconsin cocoon at tournament time, but travel is huge.  (I hope that Whitworth had a chance to adjust to its 3PM PST game with EMU.  The Pirates had not had a 3pm PST tip-off since January 3rd.)

I never expected that response (the smiting and absence of a cogent response) that I received on the WIAC boards.

If a team has the athletes that UTD has and more depth than that "beat-up" Comet team did last night, then that game video may be quite instructive.  

UTD played a great game and Davis had a career game to make it so. If Wash U had won, it would have been a shorter trip for the Comets and longer for the Pointers. It would have only been about 500 fans to 30 there. Blame the NCAA politics, but not the 2300 Point fans for trying to exhort their team to a win. UTD had less than 350 fans a game see them play at home during this year on average, they would have been out numbered no matter where they played. Injuries are also part of the game. UWSP's Pete Rortvedt was not nearly the player he was early in his career after an injury filled junior season that carried over into his senior season as well.  UTD had no depth all season long and Witten's loss definitely hurt, but they had no one to replace him because they only played 6 players basically after Greene went down. Superb athletes, yes, team, nope

[iwumichigander]

Quote from: Ralph Turner on Yesterday at 11:03:28 pm
-- and that I asked for quantification of home court advantage and that one should probably consider that home court advantage may for UWSP may have been 6 points when one considers the plane flight and travel for UTD and the overwhelming crowd disparity in favor of UWSP.  UTD had not played before 2300 fans this season. (UTDallas' 64-72 loss at D1 UT-Arlington was only played before 632 fans on Jan 3rd.)

Ralph, in fairness, whether UTD played at UWSP, IWU, or Carthage (had the Redmen or Titans hosted)  the fan disparity would have been about the same.  All four institutions have a large home fan base, a crowd of 2300+ not unusual for big games (conference; non-conference or NCAA tournament) and each has the facilities to accomodate same.  And, all of the three would have likely sold all their allocated visitors tickets and been looking for more.

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks for the discussion of this year's tourney to this point.

I wish to focus the discussion towards the consideration of how good teams are when we consider the limitations and the definition of D-III, the emphasis of regional competition.

I asked for a quantification of the advantage or disadvantage due to travel in D-III, where D1-style travel is unusual.  I posited that the Home Court Advantage for UWSP might have been 6 points, Massey's standard 3.14 plus another "2.86" for the airflight.  (I surmise that that was the offending concept,as opposed to style of play or the fact that UWSP could not put them away after pulling to a 13 point lead.  I also wish that Massey could run numbers on the effect of "plane flights" or any game over 500 miles might yield at the Division III level.)

This also raises the questions of styles of play.  With the chance to watch videostreams from other parts of the country, we see what works in those parts of the country.  Another style may not be to our respective tastes, but it does reflect the talent that is available to our coaches and teams locally.  We have very few 6'7" posts in the South, but we have plenty of 6'3" athletes.  We saw this in 2008-09 when the University of New England burst onto the regional scene with short quick athletic guards from Texas.

From our perspective in the ASC, UMHB is going to Beloit in the 2010-11.  That should be a good chance for Wisconsin fans to see a good program and to contrast the style of play.

[magicman]

Friday's games are 5 and 7 p.m., while the title game is at 1 on Saturday. (Women have the second game this year, for TV purposes.)

Pat,
Who is televising the men's games and is it just the Final or are the semifinals also on TV.

[frodotwo]

Thanks for the discussion of this year's tourney to this point.

I wish to focus the discussion towards the consideration of how good teams are when we consider the limitations and the definition of D-III, the emphasis of regional competition.

I asked for a quantification of the advantage or disadvantage due to travel in D-III, where D1-style travel is unusual.  I posited that the Home Court Advantage for UWSP might have been 6 points, Massey's standard 3.14 plus another "2.86" for the airflight.  (I surmise that that was the offending concept,as opposed to style of play or the fact that UWSP could not put them away after pulling to a 13 point lead.  I also wish that Massey could run numbers on the effect of "plane flights" or any game over 500 miles might yield at the Division III level.)

This also raises the questions of styles of play.  With the chance to watch videostreams from other parts of the country, we see what works in those parts of the country.  Another style may not be to our respective tastes, but it does reflect the talent that is available to our coaches and teams locally.  We have very few 6'7" posts in the South, but we have plenty of 6'3" athletes.  We saw this in 2008-09 when the University of New England burst onto the regional scene with short quick athletic guards from Texas.

From our perspective in the ASC, UMHB is going to Beloit in the 2010-11.  That should be a good chance for Wisconsin fans to see a good program and to contrast the style of play.

Looking back at a few games in the D3 tourneys over the past few years show many cases where teams traveled a "far piece" into the opposing teams' home courts and won or played very well.  In 2003 UW Oshkosh traveled to RMC (962 mi) and won in front of 1600. That same year Occidental traveled 1671 mi to beat Buena Vista on their court (no attendance listed). In '04 UWSP logged an 1844 mile trip to beat Puget Sound in front of 1809 home fans. The following year Trinity U came up from Texas to UWSP and lost what was probably the best game in that year's tournament in front of over 2700 fans. In '06 Puget Sound flew 1914 miles and beat Augustana in Appleton before losing to IWU the next night. And of course UTD last year put on 1190 mi to beat Capital in front of 1134 fans before losing in OT the next night to Guilford. While not a home game specifically, Va. Wesleyan beat Wittenberg by 3 for the '06 title in front of 3450 fans a night after beating IWU by 2 in front of 2665. Good teams will win where ever they play if they play better than the other team travel notwithstanding.

[Ralph Turner]

Good post, frodo.

I agree that the best teams make it to Salem.  The team that makes its out of the Midwest and the teams that have historically made it out of the Great Lakes/ODAC region have been the strongest.  Recently, the NESCAC has locked in a third part of the bracket.  The weak link in this seems to be the Mid-Atlantic/Atlantic since the Catholic championship over WPU in 2001.

I think that Massey's analysis would work best at the Regionals and Sectionals where the number of games may approach a representative sample to show some greater impact due to long travel (i.e., air travel.)

[gordonmann]

Who is televising the men's games and is it just the Final or are the semifinals also on TV.

Usually it's just the final that is televised on cable.  I think it'll be on CSTV since CBS has the broadcast rights.  We will work with the NCAA to provide live online video of the semifinals.

[Pat Coleman]

CBS College Sports is the name of the network, and yes, they are doing the final. The semifinals are on NCAA.com, with our broadcasters.

[David Collinge]

Is there an announcement of the rosters for the All-Star Game somewhere that I have missed?  Who is making the selections for this game, and who is footing the bill for the travel for the players?  In fact, as I type this, I can think of another dozen questions about this game.  Where, or perhaps when, can I look for answers?