2012 Division III NCAA Tournament

[David Collinge]

Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?!

As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment.  Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?!

As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment.  Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.

So even if I go 'ditto' for my college days, we still don't equal data?!

[Ralph Turner]

Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?!

As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment.  Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.

Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?!

As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment.  Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.

So even if I go 'ditto' for my college days, we still don't equal data?!

+1!   

[Gregory Sager]

As to 2, interesting hypothesis, which might well have merit.  Although, of course, at the privates it is likely to be PARENTS' investments, while at WIAC and places like EMU it has a higher likelihood of STUDENTS' investments, which would seem to undercut your hypothesis.  Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?!

As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment.  Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.

Yeah, I was more or less just thinking out loud, which is why I said that it is a hypothesis that would seem to elude a proof. I'm still searching for a reason as to why WIAC schools, as indicated by Tom and PS, seem to have so little student-fan interest, in spite of the fact that it's the league that's universally understood to have the highest caliber of basketball in D3 (and is the home of the current national champions).

I dunno. I'm groping for an explanation. Maybe it's the cheese.

[woosterbooster]

So, the plural of anecdote isn't data.  But surely antidote is the opposite, or at least the reciprocal. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

As to 2, interesting hypothesis, which might well have merit.  Although, of course, at the privates it is likely to be PARENTS' investments, while at WIAC and places like EMU it has a higher likelihood of STUDENTS' investments, which would seem to undercut your hypothesis.  Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?!

As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment.  Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.

Yeah, I was more or less just thinking out loud, which is why I said that it is a hypothesis that would seem to elude a proof. I'm still searching for a reason as to why WIAC schools, as indicated by Tom and PS, seem to have so little student-fan interest, in spite of the fact that it's the league that's universally understood to have the highest caliber of basketball in D3 (and is the home of the current national champions).

I dunno. I'm groping for an explanation. Maybe it's the cheese.

Greg, I'm sure my hypothesis is also unprovable, but have you given it serious thought?

The larger the school, the more likely at least some of the classes are 100+ lecture halls.  Is an athlete in such a class really a 'classmate'?  I have no data to support it, but it just seems intuitive to me that sharing a class of 15-20 with someone might make me more likely to want to go see how he does on the field/court than being in the same lecture hall.  IMO, other things beings equal, a smaller school will have a better turnout of students than a larger school due to greater integration of the athletes into the student body.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

So here's one that seems obvious and just never struck me.  Perhaps at the WIAC schools there's a larger percentage of students who just don't care about sports because they're in d3?  I know we love d3 athletics, but maybe the students are just less inclined to follow closely when opponents have strange names and there's no televised tournament at the end of the year to hold out hope you might qualify for?

I do think its easier for smaller schools to embrace the d3 ideals simply because they see themselves as small schools.  Perhaps its more difficult for large schools to do so?

I know some of the UAA schools are pretty big, but they also have the academic elitism going for them, which is a bit of a different scenario.

I wonder what the turnout is like for the big public schools in Texas?

[Ralph Turner]

Sul Ross State is a small (1200 undergrads) school in rural, remote Big Bend.  Alpine, TX has 6,000 people.  It is 5 hours to the nearest D3 opponent.  When the team is doing well, then students show up.

UT-Dallas is a big urban school with extremely selective admissions.  (Think Trinity TX or UT Austin as schools that UTD students consider.) On the 2009 Elite 8 Comet team, 6th man Scott Rodgers (9.1ppg in 19 min/game) came to UTD instead of Stanford so he could play D-3 Hoops.  Lots of things to do at UTD, so students may show up if they wish.  McMurry, UMHB, LeTourneau have had as boisterous and enthusiastic a crowd as UTD at some UTD activities.

UT-Tyler is the only game in town for these students.  Tyler is a city of 100,000 in a county of 200,000.  No football on the campus, yet.  There may be as many students in the Wellness Center as in the stands of a basketball game.

Three different public schools, with 3 different student bodies...  One cannot generalize.

[Knightstalker]

As to 2, interesting hypothesis, which might well have merit.  Although, of course, at the privates it is likely to be PARENTS' investments, while at WIAC and places like EMU it has a higher likelihood of STUDENTS' investments, which would seem to undercut your hypothesis.  Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?!

As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment.  Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.

Yeah, I was more or less just thinking out loud, which is why I said that it is a hypothesis that would seem to elude a proof. I'm still searching for a reason as to why WIAC schools, as indicated by Tom and PS, seem to have so little student-fan interest, in spite of the fact that it's the league that's universally understood to have the highest caliber of basketball in D3 (and is the home of the current national champions).

I dunno. I'm groping for an explanation. Maybe it's the cheese.

NJAC schools have the same problem.  Also since the majority of students at a state school are in state residents many go home on weekends.  At least that is what happens at NJAC schools.  Also a lot of students I knew at NJCU and other NJAC schools had jobs to go to when not in school, both dorm and commuting students.

[hopefan]

Knightstalker, you might be amused by my memory of a current NJAC school... back when I was an assistant at RPI in the mid 70's, I was charged with scouting all opponents...  we played Stevens Tech, and an opportunity to see them play arose in a midweek game at Rutgers Newark....  I'll never forget that I  was one of a crowd of ... 3!!!....   3 people in the stands not on the bench or at the scorer's table...  2 old fellows and me!!!!  with all the D3 games I've seen (and played in), that was the smallest attendance I ever witnessed  (though I remember playing in the old dome at Brooklyn Poly where the stands consisted of two benches squeezed against the wall opposite the players benches... but at half capacity, I think we hit double figures for that game!!)

[apstorey]

My guess about why there are not significant student followings at WIAC schools and other state school-oriented conferences is that the students there likely identify with the larger schools with which they are affiliated.  This has been my experience with students attending Ohio State, Penn State, and Indiana affiliated campuses, most of which are D2 or D3.

[thebear]

We suffer from the same, you'd be amazed at how many Syracuse basketball shirts and hats you see around our campus, not to mention that the locals are more interested in D-I hockey than in D-III basketball.

[Greek Tragedy]

Completely off subject now...

With talk about D1 basketball and how larger D3 schools are affiliated with them, as well as the D1 tourney starting, it make me think...

If D3 was strictly a national tourney where money didn't matter and we could fly teams wherever we wanted and there were actual seedings and keeping conference foes away from each other, how would this year's tourney be set up.

I was thinking everyone that was in the regional rankings would get the higher seeds while the AQs that weren't in the regional rankings would be the lower seeds.

I think the four #1 seeds would be Whitworth, Williams and Middlebury, but stuck on the 4th #1.  St. Thomas at 24-3 or Wooster at 26-2 or even Augustana at 24-3.  I don't have Point as an option as St. Thomas beat Point during the year.

The #2 seeds would be 2 of the 3 mentioned above along with Point and possibly VWU.

More later...

What are your thoughts?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

It would be Wooster - if you give the committee and excuse (with a great season and good numbers) they're in.  Like Duke in d1.  Besides, I think Wooster is pretty darn good this year.

[Ralph Turner]

Augie had home court advantage and could not defend it.

I think that Whitworth was the only travel casualty.  Every other team in and beyond the Sweet 16 would have won on a neutral floor.

I still stand my assessment that Home court advantage in D-III is worth:

3 points for teams 200 miles/3hours or less.

4 points for teams 200 miles to 499 miles.

7 points for teams 500 or more miles.