2012 Division III NCAA Tournament

smedindy · March 01, 2006, 10:20:00 AM

Baruch's conference is heinous, as you know, and their Massey rating is 190. I just don't see it right now - but you never know. And it's all at Baruch, so that helps them.

We've dogged the NESCAC for their scheduling, yet Baruch had a great regional record and was #29 in the QOWI index, yet the toughest team they played outside of William Paterson was Farmingdale. It's not exactly a tester of a schedule, yet they host.

Ah, well...

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · March 01, 2006, 10:35:29 AM

Quote from: smedindy on March 01, 2006, 10:20:00 AM
yet they host.

Who else in that foursome would you suggest host the games?

smedindy · March 01, 2006, 10:44:42 AM

What I would suggest is that...well...I think we've beat it to death. Something about *REAL* measures of team's strengths, etc.

I do have William Paterson as the best team of that foursome.

Knightstalker · March 01, 2006, 10:48:04 AM

Quote from: smedindy on March 01, 2006, 10:44:42 AM
What I would suggest is that...well...I think we've beat it to death. Something about *REAL* measures of team's strengths, etc.

I do have William Paterson as the best team of that foursome.

But Baruch beat William Paterson head to head. I have no problem with Baruch hosting. It is only a few miles farther than William Paterson, not as difficult to get to as most imagine (if they park in NJ and take public transportation) and they have the best record in their bracket pod.

smedindy · March 01, 2006, 10:55:15 AM

Best record does not equal better team.

Again, it's a bigger issue than that foursome - it's the price of a national tournament being played regionally.

Rhodes Scholar · March 01, 2006, 11:05:19 AM

Baruch is the favorite against Villa Julie, but if they play like they've been playing lately they could very well lose. If they play up to their potential, on the other hand, they should beat Villa Julie and they would be quite capable of beating either WPU or Scranton. Despite the fact that Baruch beat WPU and Kings, which tied Scranton for the MAC Freedom title in the regular season, I'd rate them as an underdog against both WPU and Scranton.

Knightstalker · March 01, 2006, 11:39:37 AM

I would rate them the underdog also, but I like the underdog although I would like WPU to go deep for the NJAC. Like I stated earlier though, I would not be surprised if Baruch made it to the sectionals.

Knightstalker · March 01, 2006, 12:46:18 PM

More useless tournament trivia:

Most tournament appearances and records through last season.

1.   Wittenberg, 23 appearances 42-23
2.   F&M, 19 appearances 32-23
3.   Scranton, 19 appearances 32-19
4.   Salem State, 19 appearances 19-20
5.   IWU, 17 appearances 34-17
6.   Hope, 16 appearances 17-18
7.   Calvin, 15 appearances 28-16
8.   CNU, 15 appearances 10-16
9.   Clark MA, 15 appearances 26-15
10.   NJCU, 15 appearances 17-18
11.   Potsdam State, 15 appearances 36-13
12.   Wooster, 14 appearances 12-14
13.   Neb. Wes. 14 appearances 24-16
14.   Roanoke, 13 appearances 13-15
Six tied with 12 appearances.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · March 01, 2006, 01:01:13 PM

Gotta love those old third place games. It stinks when you've lost more tournament games than the number of tournaments you've been in. F & M is down four!

Knightstalker · March 01, 2006, 02:09:08 PM

NJCU is down three, and two of those are consolation games.

hopefan · March 01, 2006, 02:46:18 PM

interesting stat - and dicouraging

Hope's NCAA record listed above 17-18
Hope's NCAA record the two years they lost in the Championship game 9 - 2

Hope's record all other years 8 - 16

ouch

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · March 01, 2006, 02:55:29 PM

Quote from: hopefan on March 01, 2006, 02:46:18 PM
ouch

My sentiments exactly.

Knightstalker · March 01, 2006, 03:04:44 PM

Teams that have won the title or at least made it to the title game all have at least four wins. If they win the title that is five wins in most years, and in the years of the 64 team tournament six wins. Win a couple of titles and pad your win total.

John Gleich · March 01, 2006, 03:19:38 PM

Quote from: hopefan on March 01, 2006, 02:46:18 PM
Hope's record all other years 8 - 16

What this shows to me is the relative dominance of Hope over their conference foes. The fact that they've gotten to the dance 16 times is a testiment to the program's history... even if half of those were one and done shots.

Nested in that 8-16 are tournaments that Hope did win at least the first ballgame... and in a region like the Great Lakes that has had good top teams and is often paired with the West or Midwest, I think that's still pretty good.

Gregory Sager · March 02, 2006, 04:07:25 AM

Hope has nothing for which Dutch fans should be ashamed. Yeah, the Hollanders have tended to make a lot of early exits, but two Final Fours and 17 wins overall are nothing to sneeze at. If you're looking for standards of persistent tourney futility you look at a school such as Christopher Newport, which is only 10-16 in spite of the fact that the South Region has not been particularly strong in the tourney over the years. In fact, the South's woes have little to do with Christopher Newport, because the Great Lakes and Midwest teams that have made a habit out of beating South teams in the middle rounds have tended to do so after the Captains had already bowed out in the first or second round.

I would've included perennial one-and-done outfit Salem State in Christopher Newport's category, but they somehow snuck through and made it to a Final Four a few years ago.

I don't have the records on me at the moment, but a couple of other teams that I can recall as having pretty dismal D3 tourney records are Beloit and Allegheny.