2012 Division III NCAA Tournament

[Knightstalker]

What is a good crowd in the NYC area would be an empty house to a lot of people in the mid-west.  Too many other things going on all the time that dilute the viewing pool

[Ralph Turner]

What is a good crowd in the NYC area would be an empty house to a lot of people in the mid-west.  Too many other things going on all the time that dilute the viewing pool

There is something to be said for a neutral site in the Tourney, as much as empty seats frustrate us.

[patcummings]

ARC Arena seats about 1,200...and there were probably 1,100 last night.  Villa Julie brought three buses and Paterson had a decent turnout too, probably around 200 just from my estimation.

Assuming they all come back tonight, it could be MUCH worse...

The building itself isn't huge, but it's new and an adequate host facility.  350 fans will be louder here than they would at many other places though...Yeah, if this was a midwestern school, the place would still seem empty.  Not the case here in NYC.

I'm on the 31st floor of my hotel here in Times Square and the wind is ridiculous.  It was 15 degrees in NYC and I thought I could feel the building sway this morning.

[patcummings]

An aside from last night's Villa Julie/Baruch game...

Officiating was horrific all night long, but they were equal opportunity offenders.  It didn't favor one side or the other, just bad all around.  But I never saw this...

Baruch intentionally fouls Villa Julie player.  Baruch bench goes nuts thinking that it wasn't an intentional foul.  Given the situation, should be 2 shots and the ball for Villa Julie.

Baruch assistant is flipping out while VJC player goes to the line, by himself.  The official who called the foul is over by the Baruch bench observing the coach flipping out.  Baruch player restrains the coach just as the official puts his whistle in the mouth as he is about to call a technical.  Coach is roughly restrained by player and ref turns around to see player up to check in and blows his whistle.  As the whistle blows, VJC player hits first free throw, even though an official shouldn't have blown their whistle while in the act of shooting the free try.  The scoreboard is not changed.

Officials confer and say they will re-shoot the 2 foul shots.  Villa Julie gets one free throw and hits it...then they get the ball back.  They didn't get to re-shoot the second free throw.  The official scorer is right next to me and tries to call the official over to get explanation of the situation for the record...and the official refuses to come over, shaking his head that he wasn't going to stop over (game had not been resumed just yet because the ball was to be inbounded the opposite end of the floor). 

So, for the record, VJC got one free throw and the ball out of the intentional foul. 

Just one of a myriad of issues yesterday...but this one was the clincher.  Fortunately, it didn't cost either team the game, but it certainly didn't make sense, nor did it bode well for the men in stripes.

[Knightstalker]

Pat, you did feel the building sway.  Many of the taller building in NYC are built to give with the wind a little.  It is quite an interesting feeling.  I wish they ECAC would have scheduled their tournament the way they usually do.  Most years the semifinals would have been on Sat afternoon and the finals on Sunday afternoon.  Then I could have attended some more games.  I will be at the J-Mac for the ECAC final between Kean and NJCU.  I am sure Ira will keep us updated on all the NCAA games.

[Gregory Sager]

Just one of a myriad of issues yesterday...but this one was the clincher.  Fortunately, it didn't cost either team the game, but it certainly didn't make sense, nor did it bode well for the men in stripes.

From what conference were the VJC/Baruch refs drawn? It always interests me to find out which third-party conference supplies the refs for tournament games.

Pat, you did feel the building sway.  Many of the taller building in NYC are built to give with the wind a little.  It is quite an interesting feeling.

I feel the Sears Tower swaying all the time. It was engineered to move as much as a foot in any direction in high winds. I never even notice it anymore.

[Rhodes Scholar]

patcummings: The officiating wasn't particularly good in either game, but it was clearly better in the opener. Anyway, the better team won both games. Neither team can blame the refs for their defeat.

From my perspective, it looked like ARC was 3/4 filled. That would make the attendance about 900. It will be interesting to see what kind of crowd shows up tonight. Last night, the Villa Julie fans were just about as loud as the Baruch fans.

[Matt Letourneau]

Is it always out of conference refs?

Last night, the York-York game had 1 regular CAC ref, and one other ref who does at least some CAC games.  I thought it was odd.  I was on my way out (my interest was the first game) so I don't know how they did.

[Knightstalker]

I have a feeling the refs were most likely from the ECAC, they work more than one conference.  I have seen some of the same refs that do NJAC games at CUNY and Skyline games.  I know the refs for the NJAC games are ECAC refs.  It is one of the things ECAC does for its members.

[bamm]

What is a good crowd in the NYC area would be an empty house to a lot of people in the mid-west.  Too many other things going on all the time that dilute the viewing pool

There is something to be said for a neutral site in the Tourney, as much as empty seats frustrate us.

Absolutely.  You've got to feel for the Plattsburgh player (first team all-SUNYAC and SUNYAC tourney MVP, btw) who missed both of those free throws against Hamilton.  The Hamilton student section actually moved during timeout so they could be underneath the basket he was shooting at.

[Knightstalker]

What is a good crowd in the NYC area would be an empty house to a lot of people in the mid-west.  Too many other things going on all the time that dilute the viewing pool

There is something to be said for a neutral site in the Tourney, as much as empty seats frustrate us.

Absolutely.  You've got to feel for the Plattsburgh player (first team all-SUNYAC and SUNYAC tourney MVP, btw) who missed both of those free throws against Hamilton.  The Hamilton student section actually moved during timeout so they could be underneath the basket he was shooting at.

Were there stands where the students moved to?  I know at NJCU's gym no one is allowed to move behind the baskets while there is any kind of game action at that end and no one is allowed to sit at the visitors end of the court.  I am surprised officials allowed that.

[Gregory Sager]

Is it always out of conference refs?

Last night, the York-York game had 1 regular CAC ref, and one other ref who does at least some CAC games.  I thought it was odd.  I was on my way out (my interest was the first game) so I don't know how they did.

The D3 Men's Basketball Committee is in charge of assigning refs to tournament games, which would mean that the local committee rep, Albright head coach Rick Ferry, probably assigned the refs for the York/York game. There's nothing in the D3 tourney handbook that says that refs have to come from third-party conferences; the only things the handbook says about accreditation are that membership in specific officials' accrediting organizations isn't required, and that refs are merely expected to adhere to NCAA policies while they're doing the games. It's just been my observation over the years that tournament refs tend to come from third-party conferences, which I think is a sound policy.

[smedindy]

Were there stands where the students moved to?  I know at NJCU's gym no one is allowed to move behind the baskets while there is any kind of game action at that end and no one is allowed to sit at the visitors end of the court.  I am surprised officials allowed that.

Well, we built our new configurations so there would be stands at the visitors basket. Our students just didn't choose to move - but at times that's fairly full anyway.

If it was during a timeout, and there were seats there, I can see nothing that anyone could do to stop people from moving.

[bamm]

Two scores to report:

Tufts: 28
Cortland: 28
Halftime.

Norwich - 29
Fisher - 34
Halftime

knightstalker -- Like smedindy suggested, with open public seats, I'm not sure there's anything to do or complain about regarding the fans moving.

[bamm]

Tufts - 66
Cortland - 65

10 seconds left.