greyshirting

[smedindy]

I don't think you're getting the point. As stated below, the loophole says the person IS IN SCHOOL and can practice for a month - then he's not part of the team and he loses no eligibility. That is not right. Many D-3 schools can't operate that way - the kids need to finish in four years.

A lot of schools find it rare that someone enrolls in school after sitting a year or two out. It happens, but it's rare enough to be just a handful a year. Many of them at Wabash aren't athletes either. The vast vast majority show up as freshmen right out of HS and then graduate in four years.

[ktroutvon]

I'm not sure that the rule is created with consideration to the financial condition of the students.  If prohibitive costs were the issue, I'm not sure the state schools would necessarily be better off.  I knew my fair share of wealthy students at my alma mater (Hobart) and similar schools who did five and even six years for various reasons.  I also knew quite a few people who went to schools like Cortland who couldn't fiancially conceive of a fifth year.  There would be some schools in the middle of financial/athletic matrix who would take a hit.  In the east Ithaca comes to mind.  I think, in general, their profile is students who are less affluent and slightly better athletes than, say, Union, RPI, Hobart.  They couldn't afford the fifth year.  Without knowing a lot about the Midwest/West schools, I would assume that there is no reasonable way to justify paying for a fifth year at Mount Union, Linfield, Trinity (TX).  In effect, the balance might be greater if people weren't constrained by this rule.

I am also pretty sure you get 4 years of football within 5 overall years.  I know a few guys who took a year off after the clock started running and still played for 5 years.  There is also (in more extreme cases) the possibility of injury redshirts.  I think schools won't go to the expense of the appeal nearly as often as DI however.

[Jonny Utah]

I think getting a double major is a good thing, basically two degrees.  Again, if you have the money go for it, if you don't its your choice.  Some people cant even get into college, they can play semi-pro somewhere.

To me 5 years to play 4 years of football is fair enough.  Again, its college football, so you should be in college going to class.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think you're missing my point, or else we're making the same one.  The kids can't afford to stay five years.  What I'm saying is that no one will be abusing the "greyshirting" loophole because someone would have to have serious mental deficiencies to pay for an extra year of school just to get an extra year on a d-III squad.  It might be a bigger deal at a D-I school, but they have scholarship restrictions to prevent abuse.  I'm just trying to say, if some kid is so desperate to start for a D-III school that they are willing to pay an extra year's tuition for the priviledge, then I say let them do it... it just won't happen very often, certainly not often enough to make any difference.


Also, if I'm understanding the new rule correctly, all redshirts are gone, including the medical ones.

[Pat Coleman]

You're not. Medical redshirt regulations have not changed.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Well, still the point remains the same.  If someone wants to play an extra year so badly that they are willing to pay several thousand dollars to do it, then by all means let them do it.

[coachhootner]

The rules differ for Division I, II, III and NAIA as well as juco.

Out here in the California community college system, it's an issue of matriculation (when you are first enrolled in any college units).

As long as you have less than six units during the beginning of your college career, you have not been considered to be matriculating as far as any of the aforementioned levels are concerned. 

Now, say my first year I play tennis.  Then, my second year, I take a year off.  For Division I, you have already matriculated and your 'clock' is going.  For D2, D3 and NAIA, you still don't lose a year.  In DI, you do. 

So, for example, players we know might be here 3-4 years, we may greyshirt them, then their second year, redshirt them, and then have them play in years 3 and 4. 

The only problem is that when you are below 12 units, you do not qualify for a full-financial aid package because you are not full-time so it's a catch-22.  Out here, it's not a big issue because it's only $26/unit.  But many people cannot do that.

As far as I know, you cannot be a full-time student anywhere and be considered a greyshirt.  You still have the 10 semester/quarter rule to complete your eligibility of four years (in Canada, you can play 5 years at some schools).



Mike Hootner
Associate Head Men's Basketball Coach
San Diego Mesa College

[Jonny Utah]

Now, say my first year I play tennis.  Then, my second year, I take a year off.  For Division I, you have already matriculated and your 'clock' is going.  For D2, D3 and NAIA, you still don't lose a year.  In DI, you do. 

Mike, I think d3 you clock is going to as you have a certain amount of years to play ncaa sports once you take that first class.

[CanuckFan]

I have followed US college sports for years, but I am new to your board (which I like very much). It seems to me that this greyshirting issue is one that truly will attract attention in rare cases. So long as D3 athletes have scholastic and accompanying financial pressures to graduate on schedule, the greyshirt will be a lesser factor.

Here in Ontario, Canada, we have a 5 year eligibility rule. We also have a medical redshirt rule. With no full ride type scholarships available, the dynamics of university education are similar to D3, except that I believe that  our schools typically receive  more government money than most US institutions, making our tuition costs markedly lower than in the US. (I recognize that many D3 schools are private institutions; in Ontario there is no such thing as a truly private university) This year full student cost at a typical Ontario school for 4 year undergrad program, including room and board is around 12-13 USD per year; this figure might vary from province to province, and foreign students pay a good deal more, I believe.

However, even here where a university education is significantly less costly than in the US, there is not a mass rush of 5th year eligible athletes to compete - the 5th years are themselves a mix of students finishing their 4 year degree, students taking additional courses after a 4 year degree or those taking a program such as teachers college. While most basketball rosters may have a 5th year player or two,(at least on the women's side, which I have followed), they are the exception and not the rule; it is simply too important for these athletes to get their educations completed and their further careers advanced to prolong their university career with out compensation.

[Pat Coleman]

In Division III you have ten semesters of full-time enrollment to play four years. As long as you stay within Division III, you could take those years in 1995, 1999, 2005 and 2012.

[Jonny Utah]

so can i go play golf at curry grad school if I only went to ithaca for 8 semesters?

[Pat Coleman]

I believe there's a rule that says if you've received your degree then you only have grad-school eligibility at the school you got that degree from.

[redswarm81]

This seems to be a solution in search of a problem.  How widespread can greyshirting be in D3?  If I understand correctly, this would really only be an issue when a student is on campus for more than his ten semesters during which he may play four years.

In Division III, where the vast majority of member schools are private schools, the cost of tuition will prevent widespread greyshirting.  I remember approaching my parents with the idea of a fifth year to play my fourth year (after medical redshirting one year), and even though they could have afforded it, and even though I would have been pursuing a graduate degree, they just couldn't agree to the additional expense.

If Won-Loss records are any indication, I don't see much evidence that bargain schools, i.e. state schools, have been successfully exploiting the greyshirt loophole.

For those academic programs that require five years, such as the Architecture program at RPI, the student could elect to begin play his second year, and still play four years.

I just don't see how the magnitude of the threat in Division III could ever exceed a small handful of students in any given year.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

It's a non-issue; I'm glad the board has finally swayed my way.  Although, now I'm considering going to Grad School for a semester so I can join he varsity cross country squad.  If I only go fall semester in 2006 and 2007, I can get two seasons out of my two remaining semesters of elligability.

[Phife]

If someone wants to play badly enough to pay the costs of grayshirting, then I say let him (or her I guess).  What's the harm?  Oh that's right, there is none.