FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[BoBo]

Thanks Just Bill...I know you are really good at explaining that kind of stuff.  That should settle it!!  

[WarhawkDad]

I wouldn't necessarily call it an obstacle, because the WIAC isn't interested in that road anyway, but yes, the charter would be a huge obstacle if they wanted to.  It would require politicians getting involved and everyone knows what a disaster that would be.  The charter states that only the Madison, Milwaukee, Green Bay and Parkside campuses may issue athletic scholarships.

The Wisconsin State Legislature would have to approve a change to the UW System charter and with the current financial situation in the state government and UW system, that would have as much chance to pass as would installing the gopher as the new state animal.

Well from what I see, it might be as simple as an amendment to the Statutes to add Whitewater to the list referenced above.   Given the success of the UWW campus and I mean academically, financially and athletically, it might be something that a State Legislature would consider.  

I am not advocating and really do not think the NCAA would initiate it.  I mean look at the years of athletic success at Mount Union in DIII and Grain Valley and others in DII.  The NCAA really has not done anything to try to push schools up a division to spur more competition.

[bleedpurple]

Just a couple of thoughts regarding the NAIA/NCAA D3/NCAA D2 topic:

If I remember correctly, the dual membership years were a transitional period from which the schools  were moving from NAIA to NCAA affiliation. I know in Whitewater's case, the feeling was that comparatively speaking, the NCAA was really strong in organization, quality people, high standards, and clear vision and objectives.  The feeling was it would be in the best interest of the university to make the switch.

Regarding D3 and D2, the philosophy is different. As far as I know, UW-W and the WIAC agree wholeheartedly with the D3 philosophy and have no desire to change. The non-scholarship issue is one part of that philosophy.  The NCAA wouldn't look to "move" a team for achieving excellence within that philosophy.  I'm biased and in the minority, but I wouldn't consider a move from D3 to D2 a move "up". I'm not suggesting that D3 teams are better.  I'm suggesting an argument can be made that the D3 philosophy and experience can be better for a whole segment of student athletes and schools.

[bleedpurple]

Even though it cost me "karma" last week:

BPD3 Level System Top 25

www.uwwfootball.blogspot.com

[WarhawkDad]

Just a couple of thoughts regarding the NAIA/NCAA D3/NCAA D2 topic:

If I remember correctly, the dual membership years were a transitional period from which the schools  were moving from NAIA to NCAA affiliation. I know in Whitewater's case, the feeling was that comparatively speaking, the NCAA was really strong in organization, quality people, high standards, and clear vision and objectives.  The feeling was it would be in the best interest of the university to make the switch.

Regarding D3 and D2, the philosophy is different. As far as I know, UW-W and the WIAC agree wholeheartedly with the D3 philosophy and have no desire to change. The non-scholarship issue is one part of that philosophy.  The NCAA wouldn't look to "move" a team for achieving excellence within that philosophy.  I'm biased and in the minority, but I wouldn't consider a move from D3 to D2 a move "up". I'm not suggesting that D3 teams are better.  I'm suggesting an argument can be made that the D3 philosophy and experience can be better for a whole segment of student athletes and schools.

Bleedpurple

I really appreciate your observation and after thinking about it I would have to concur.  From an overall philosophy and experience standpoint, I believe that the student athletes at DIII schools are playing the sport for the "love of the game" and not to receive a financial reward.  This is not intended to be a condemnation of  DI or DII athletes as I am sure many of them truly love the game too, but no doubt the scholarship played into their decision.

WarhawkDad

[The Roop]

With the current travel restrictions I can't see how a move to DII would make any sense. Who they gonna schedule that's closer than what they've got now ??

[WarhawkDad]

With the current travel restrictions I can't see how a move to DII would make any sense. Who they gonna schedule that's closer than what they've got now ??

Excellent point!  Agreed....tons of common sense in that statement.  Time for me to get out of the theorethical and back to the practical!   

[d-train]

Other schools had dual membership in that era -- St. John's and Illinois Wesleyan among them.

About NAIA-II -- I don't believe NAIA Division II was entirely non-scholarship by design. However, schools wanting to play non-scholarship would play in NAIA-II, I suspect.

I played at Pacific Lutheran in the mid-90's (NAIA-II).  There were some modest football 'talent awards' given as part of financial aid packages here and there.  (Until we began a NCAA D-3 transition phase.)  There was no spring ball.  League-rival Whitworth sent me a letter of intent with some recruiting materials, but PLU never did. 

I also looked at Carroll College in Montana (NAIA-I).  They definately talked about 'scholarship' money and had full-contact spring practices.

The two NAIA divisions merged for football before the 1997 season when Willamette played in the title game against a current NCAA D-2 member.  If you review the list of NAIA-II champs from the 80's through '96, you'll see a lot of current D-3 members.  Do the same for NAIA-I, and the list includes a lot more schools now in D-2.

[BoBo]

With the current travel restrictions I can't see how a move to DII would make any sense. Who they gonna schedule that's closer than what they've got now ??

Excellent point!  Agreed....tons of common sense in that statement.  Time for me to get out of the theorethical and back to the practical!   

I'm not a cartographer, but I'd imagine Rand-McNally would probably agree with me that the distance between WIAC schools probably wouldn't change all that much with a move to D-II for the UW schools. And the distance between D-III's that will actually agree to play them on a consistant basis today as a D-III & D-II's that will play them after a potential (although we know it won't happen) move will be shortened.

But, in the end Roop, the WIAC UW schools will still have each other!!

[The Roop]

I was looking at it from the stand point of only UWW moving up a level. Not sure how many of the remaining WIAC schools would want to keep playing them as they would be an out of region game. Then there's always that provisional period, don't get me started, and no post season for a while. That can't help recruiting, so I don't see where the benefit is for Whitewater.

Fun to talk about it but it's not likely to happen.

[02 Warhawk]

I was looking at it from the stand point of only UWW moving up a level. Not sure how many of the remaining WIAC schools would want to keep playing them as they would be an out of region game. Then there's always that provisional period, don't get me started, and no post season for a while. That can't help recruiting, so I don't see where the benefit is for Whitewater.

Fun to talk about it but it's not likely to happen.

It would benefit the rest of DIII  

Seriously though...I don't want them going anywhere.

[BoBo]

Even though it cost me "karma" last week:

BPD3 Level System Top 25

www.uwwfootball.blogspot.com

I think the troops are warming up to the BPD3 Level System...I've seen a significant increase in vitamin K since this weeks Top 25 was unveiled!! 

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

Even though it cost me "karma" last week:

BPD3 Level System Top 25

www.uwwfootball.blogspot.com

I think the troops are warming up to the BPD3 Level System...I've seen a significant increase in vitamin K since this weeks Top 25 was unveiled!! 

I gave you +K.  Anyone who volunteers their own time to cover their favorite D3 team with a website is all-right by me.

[BoBo]

Even though it cost me "karma" last week:

BPD3 Level System Top 25

www.uwwfootball.blogspot.com

I think the troops are warming up to the BPD3 Level System...I've seen a significant increase in vitamin K since this weeks Top 25 was unveiled!! 

I gave you +K.  Anyone who volunteers their own time to cover their favorite D3 team with a website is all-right by me.

MW - are you still coaching? If so, how are things going? This would be year 2 of the building process, right? That would also deserve +k.

[wsuc/wiac fan]

many in the nsic and the rmac conferences will tell you that d2 is the WORST place to be for them.  they have to raise either all or almost all of their scholarship money privately. d3 is the place to be for many reasons.