FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[emma17]

emma. There is a more selective process in admissions at private schools than at public schools. I've said before, that's not an indictment of public schools, it's just the recognition that state schools have a different goal than do private schools. I don't know why this is a bone of contention. State schools are tasked with providing higher education to the masses, so to speak. Private schools, because of their mission, and due to the fact that they can be more selective, and, some might argue, must be more selective, probably won't offer large financial aid to a great number of students with lesser academic records. By doing that, they limit the number of students who are eligible for admission. Sure, there will be instances where certain students who are not in the top 30% (just to pick a figure) will be admitted with nice financial aid packages, for other reasons, but those are the exceptions.

Again, I don't know why this is even challenged. All I'm saying is that the pool of students who could/would/are able to attend private colleges is smaller than the pool who can/would attend public universities.

Your reply confuses me- I wasn't "challenging" your point. I agree with it from the perspective of the majority of kids.  All I'm saying is that when it comes to a "special" athlete, I believe both the private and state schools "work harder to find financial support".  In the case of an academically under-performing special athlete, I do believe private schools will work equally as hard to provide academic support and justification- knowing that if they don't they may lose that special athlete to a state school with less stringent requirements.
Is this opinion not in line with yours?

[02 Warhawk]

Are you saying that there are no "dumb athletes?"

Since academic achievers can go to either, and those who (let's be politically correct here) haven't shown their potential yet are less likely to get into private colleges, none of the latter are athletes? Not sure I understand what you are saying.

No, I'll agree with you that there's a good amount of athletes that don't excel in the classroom. Probably more so in public schools than private. But since public schools aren't running away with athletics in DIII...I'm not seeing much evidence that public schools are getting an edge (which you are hinting towards). In fact private schools run away with the Director's Cup each year, with not a public school even in the top 10.

Yes UWW had a great run in football, but it's nothing compared to Mounts'.

Do public schools have a broader recruiting range? Yea, maybe. Is it hurting private schools chances of succeeding? Far from it.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Are you saying that there are no "dumb athletes?"

Since academic achievers can go to either, and those who (let's be politically correct here) haven't shown their potential yet are less likely to get into private colleges, none of the latter are athletes? Not sure I understand what you are saying.

No, I'll agree with you that there's a good amount of athletes that don't excel in the classroom. Probably more so in public schools than private. But since public schools aren't running away with athletics in DIII...I'm not seeing much evidence that public schools are getting an edge (which you are hinting towards). In fact private schools run away with the Director's Cup each year, with not a public school even in the top 10.

Yes UWW had a great run in football, but it's nothing compared to Mounts'.

Do public schools have a broader recruiting range? Yea, maybe. Is it hurting private schools chances of succeeding? Far from it.

To be more specific, the wealthy private schools (NESCAC and UAA, primarily) win it, since they sponsor FAR more sports and the Directors Cup has fatal flaws - only the top nine sports are counted (many schools don't even sponsor nine sports; some of these sponsor 15 or more), and Williams (the usual winner) gets just as many points for a title in fencing, rowing, or skiing (few schools to compete against) as UWW gets for football or basketball.

I did a 'revised' Directors Cup (see page 5 and ff of Directors Cup thread on General d3  Issues) for last year, both total and men and women separately.  The 'Ypsi Cup' awarded points based on proportion of schools offering a sport (and ignored sports played at fewer than 40 schools); while NESCAC and UAA schools still performed very well, you may be happy to know that UWW finished first in men's sports (and I was happy to find that IWU finished well in each gender and overall ).

[retagent]

Gee Ypsi, you really do get down in the weeds. There are so many threads in this discussion that I wasn't even aware of.

[Sakman 1111]

Oh God, not the public school versus private school debate again.....all I can say my son could have gone to private school way cheaper than Whitewater where he received not a cent for 5 years......he received quite a few financial packages from private schools that were considerably more attractive......

[retagent]

Well, sak, I guess the discussion is over. Since one person can be found as an example, I guess we can extrapolate that to the entire universe. Is that the logic they taught at public institutions?

[02 Warhawk]

Oh God, not the public school versus private school debate again.....all I can say my son could have gone to private school way cheaper than Whitewater where he received not a cent for 5 years......he received quite a few financial packages from private schools that were considerably more attractive......

Well, sak, I guess the discussion is over. Since one person can be found as an example, I guess we can extrapolate that to the entire universe. Is that the logic they taught at public institutions?

Like Sakman, I think about every out-of-state tution-paying athlete would be an example of what Sakman just explained. Which makes up about 1/3 of Whitewater's student-athletic population.

I know Warhawkdad, 413 and emma would agree.

[footballfan413]

Well, sak, I guess the discussion is over. Since one person can be found as an example, I guess we can extrapolate that to the entire universe. Is that the logic they taught at public institutions?

My son, as well, had several offers to go to a number of CCIW schools for a price tag that was about half the advertised sticker price and it was not being offered because of need or high level academics, in his case.  At the time, that made the cost of going to one of the private schools in line with the price of going to IL state schools.  The private school's slashed cost to him was also comparable to the full out-of-state tuition cost we paid at Whitewater, within a grand or two, because the WIAC schools out-of-state costs are really reasonable compared to what many other states charge out-of-state students.  Yes, Sakman, Warhawkdad and I can all speak to the fact that the argument that private schools are just SOOOO much more expensive than public schools is just not the case or what many of us experienced when we went through the recuiting process.  You want to argue the disadvantage that some private schools have because of higher admission stardards, I'll tap out, but those of us who have seen what the private schools are capable of offering, first hand, in the way of what I like to call, "academic money, (wink-wink,)" to significantly reduce their players/students tuition costs, know what the reality is.  It's often and it's abundant and it sure as hell isn't just the Tommies, although, they do seem to have some of the deepest pockets these days.   

[emma17]

Transitioning from the always interesting private vs state school debate, we haven't commented much on the Leipold-Austin Peay story.  A few items of potential interest:

-Lance's resume seems strong compared to the other contenders.  His record as head coach is lights out, but his experience with other large programs also stands out.
-Austin Peay is rennovating their stadium.  However, it seems that even upon completion it will seat less than the Perk.
-They don't get much fan support at home- 4,400 average attendance.  Although their road games average 21,300. 
-Austin Peay played Virginia Tech last year and the score wasn't horrible.
-They haven't won conference since 1977.
-The team slogan is "Lets go Peay".  I like U Dub Dub better.

[number1fan]

UW Plattevilles Ryan Mcwethy had his pro day last week at the University of Wisconsin. His numbers are top at the top for any level. His height was 6'1 weighing 226. He ran a 5.52 forty, bench 225 31 times which is the most of anyone, his vertical was 37 1/2, and his 3 cone drill was the fastest of anyone at the combine at safety. If I am an NFL I would take a chance on this kid, at least as a special teams guy. Good Luck.

[02 Warhawk]

UW Plattevilles Ryan Mcwethy had his pro day last week at the University of Wisconsin. His numbers are top at the top for any level. His height was 6'1 weighing 226. He ran a 5.52 forty, bench 225 31 times which is the most of anyone, his vertical was 37 1/2, and his 3 cone drill was the fastest of anyone at the combine at safety. If I am an NFL I would take a chance on this kid, at least as a special teams guy. Good Luck.

Any chance some of those UWP QBs and WRs decided to leave school early and particiapte in pro day as well?

   

[number1fan]

My mistake on the forty it was a 4.52 not a 5.52

[HScoach]

^  Darn.  I was thinking I could be playing safety at age 43.

[palum]

According to Austin Peay's website Andy McCollum, an Austin Peay State University alumnus who was a member of the school's only Ohio Valley Conference championship team, has withdrawn for consideration as the Governors next football coach last Saturday.  UWW's Leopold is be interviewed this Thursday and 5 others are still under consideration.  Leopold is the only one with HC experience the rest are D1 assistants including Austin Peay's defensive coordinator.  Will be interesting if LL is offered will he leave WW.  He will go from being a big fish in small pond to being a minnow in the ocean.  Could not find any salary info for the HC position they are paying assistant's 35-50K with what he is making at WW and I doubt it would be a huge rise in pay.  He would have D1 HC experience on his resume if he wanted to climb the coaching ladder in the future.  I hope he stays cuz P-ville hasn't beaten a LL coached WW team

[Just Bill]

I think it all comes down to what Lance aspires to, and likely none of us really know for sure. If he wants to be a big-time BCS-level D-I football coach, then I think this is the next logical step he needs to take, regardless of the salary. Should it be offered to him, of course.