FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[wally_wabash]

Yes, Emma17, that was my post mixed in the thread. Perhaps it would be a risk for Wesley but I think they feel they can win the NJAC outright.  And if they can't win the NJAC then they don't deserve to go to the playoffs.  A game with UWW would be much more beneficial than a game against Apprentice (as I saw posted earlier) for Wesley.  It would also be great for the fans of each school.  How does playing Finlandia as a start up program benefit UWW?  It would be really nice to see the top tier teams step out of their comfort zone and play each other out of conference.

I understand your position about the sentence in bold, I'm just not on the same side of the fence of that theory.  I'm not one to think a team has to go undefeated in the regular season (or in conference) in order to be crowned the champion.  There are all kinds of reasons Wesley could lose a game in conference.  Heck, both Mt Union and UWW were within seconds of losing conference games this year.  IMO, if they had, they'd still have been the favorites in nearly every playoff game they played. 

UWW played Waldorf to open the 2014 season and the same question could have been asked "does playing Waldorf benefit UWW"? 
Probably not the same as if UWW could play a mid level CCIW team, but there is still benefit.  It's the first game of the season and all kinds of processes need to be worked out- as such, any game is a benefit to a degree. 

As a fan, heck yes I'd like to see UWW v Wesley in the regular season, or UWW - North Central.  But these three teams have legitimate playoff expectations (not just hopes), and from the perspective of achieving the goal, I don't see reason for any of them to play each other.  Unless of course the selection process for Pool C were to change.

Just an additional perspective, I'm not sure how valid: I have seen some posters who seem to feel that a competitive loss to UW-W or Mount Union is not like a normal loss when it comes to playoff selection. If this is true, then a 2 loss Wesley team (with one of the losses to UW-W)  would still be in pretty good shape for a Pool C. I recognize that this is no sure thing and National Committees vary by year, but just a thought to throw out there. If it's true, scheduling UW-W or Mount may not be quite as risky as it would seem.

We've seen this cut both ways in the last handful of years.  Two years ago SJF got invited with two losses over some quality one loss teams.  Last year the committee went with Muhlenberg who had a profile similar to teams that got left out the year before over 2-loss North Central who had a profile sort of similar to the SJF team that was put in the year before.  So you really never know how that situation will play out.  I will say that with Wesley playing a 9-game conference season, they can't get the kind of heady SOS that SJF or even North Central had last year which makes taking that second loss, even if it is to UWW, extremely risky in the event that they do not win the NJAC AQ. 

And speaking of North Central, who just got done being left out with an 8-2 record, it might be the wrong time to sell them on a game with UWW for exactly that reason.  That isn't to say that they would say no to the game, but they've got a pretty fresh and negative experience with being 8-2 on selection Sunday and may be a little more averse to that game than they would be normally. 

[jete2]

Yes, Emma17, that was my post mixed in the thread. Perhaps it would be a risk for Wesley but I think they feel they can win the NJAC outright.  And if they can't win the NJAC then they don't deserve to go to the playoffs.  A game with UWW would be much more beneficial than a game against Apprentice (as I saw posted earlier) for Wesley.  It would also be great for the fans of each school.  How does playing Finlandia as a start up program benefit UWW?  It would be really nice to see the top tier teams step out of their comfort zone and play each other out of conference.

I understand your position about the sentence in bold, I'm just not on the same side of the fence of that theory.  I'm not one to think a team has to go undefeated in the regular season (or in conference) in order to be crowned the champion.  There are all kinds of reasons Wesley could lose a game in conference.  Heck, both Mt Union and UWW were within seconds of losing conference games this year.  IMO, if they had, they'd still have been the favorites in nearly every playoff game they played. 

UWW played Waldorf to open the 2014 season and the same question could have been asked "does playing Waldorf benefit UWW"? 
Probably not the same as if UWW could play a mid level CCIW team, but there is still benefit.  It's the first game of the season and all kinds of processes need to be worked out- as such, any game is a benefit to a degree. 

As a fan, heck yes I'd like to see UWW v Wesley in the regular season, or UWW - North Central.  But these three teams have legitimate playoff expectations (not just hopes), and from the perspective of achieving the goal, I don't see reason for any of them to play each other.  Unless of course the selection process for Pool C were to change.

Just an additional perspective, I'm not sure how valid: I have seen some posters who seem to feel that a competitive loss to UW-W or Mount Union is not like a normal loss when it comes to playoff selection. If this is true, then a 2 loss Wesley team (with one of the losses to UW-W)  would still be in pretty good shape for a Pool C. I recognize that this is no sure thing and National Committees vary by year, but just a thought to throw out there. If it's true, scheduling UW-W or Mount may not be quite as risky as it would seem.

We've seen this cut both ways in the last handful of years.  Two years ago SJF got invited with two losses over some quality one loss teams.  Last year the committee went with Muhlenberg who had a profile similar to teams that got left out the year before over 2-loss North Central who had a profile sort of similar to the SJF team that was put in the year before.  So you really never know how that situation will play out.  I will say that with Wesley playing a 9-game conference season, they can't get the kind of heady SOS that SJF or even North Central had last year which makes taking that second loss, even if it is to UWW, extremely risky in the event that they do not win the NJAC AQ. 

And speaking of North Central, who just got done being left out with an 8-2 record, it might be the wrong time to sell them on a game with UWW for exactly that reason.  That isn't to say that they would say no to the game, but they've got a pretty fresh and negative experience with being 8-2 on selection Sunday and may be a little more averse to that game than they would be normally. 

emma17, I do see some of your points but I disagree about processes that need to be worked out in the first game of the season.  Can't "processes" be worked out during the scrimmage game that D3 unlike D1 allows vs. another school?  I just think it adds to D3 football by having the top teams play each other during the regular season.  Most of you are gonna say I'm nuts but dare I say that Mount Union and UWW should consider facing each other in the regular season.  Let's have some de facto playoff games during the regular season and put some pressure on coaches and teams, thus making the regular season more exciting.  And let's not punish these teams at playoff selection time for playing each other!

[voice]

this nugget from BadgerWarhawk...

Lake Bachar, UW-Whitewater's punter/kicker, is also playing baseball this year for the defending national champion Warhawks.  Bachar is a pitcher who has reportedly been clocked in the low 90's.  While this will be his first year playing collegiate baseball it's my understanding that he has been playing summer baseball in Illinois

[BoBo]

emma17, I do see some of your points but I disagree about processes that need to be worked out in the first game of the season.  Can't "processes" be worked out during the scrimmage game that D3 unlike D1 allows vs. another school?  I just think it adds to D3 football by having the top teams play each other during the regular season.  Most of you are gonna say I'm nuts but dare I say that Mount Union and UWW should consider facing each other in the regular season.  Let's have some de facto playoff games during the regular season and put some pressure on coaches and teams, thus making the regular season more exciting.  And let's not punish these teams at playoff selection time for playing each other!

I usually don't tell someone after their 5th post that they are nuts - I usually wait until at least 10, but in your case I'll make an exception.  I think your idea is really cockamamy because it wouldn't prove anything. It's one game and that by itself won't make the regular season more exciting. DIII has a 5 week playoff to settle the score and pick a champion, that's plenty reason we don't need to get into a choreographed "de facto playoff game" at the beginning of the season. And what to you mean by "...let's not punish these teams at playoff selection time...?" Are you serious?  By all means, let's put some pressure on coaches and teams from UWW and Mount Union? Where do I stop, the whole idea is too amusing!! Back to the drawing board for you.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think it's necessary for UWW and Mount Union to play a regular season game at this point. We know what both programs are capable of.

[badgerwarhawk]

Finding a DIII team willing to scrimmage us hasn't been any easier.  Several years ago we scrimmaged Elmhurst in WHITEWATER.  That was going to be a two year arrangement but after the first meeting they decided to go a different direction the following year.  Rockford College came in one year but otherwise we've only been able to schedule some Illinois JuCos, primarily Harper.   

[SaintsFAN]

bleedpurple, I can assure you it is true as I have a very close family member in the Wesley Athletic Dept. UWW cited they could not travel more than 500 miles until further notice.  They couldn't even do a home and home.

So?  Wesley should just take the opening and get on the road like Thomas More did to Dover last year... without the promise of a return game.  Surely you guys can schedule one more game in 2016 without Whitewater. 

The team that I saw in Alliance this past December needs to compete with teams like Whitewater before December so they have something to build on for National Semifinal games. 

The quit in that team was quick and permeated everyone on that sideline after UMU scored their first TD.

[emma17]

Yes, Emma17, that was my post mixed in the thread. Perhaps it would be a risk for Wesley but I think they feel they can win the NJAC outright.  And if they can't win the NJAC then they don't deserve to go to the playoffs.  A game with UWW would be much more beneficial than a game against Apprentice (as I saw posted earlier) for Wesley.  It would also be great for the fans of each school.  How does playing Finlandia as a start up program benefit UWW?  It would be really nice to see the top tier teams step out of their comfort zone and play each other out of conference.

I understand your position about the sentence in bold, I'm just not on the same side of the fence of that theory.  I'm not one to think a team has to go undefeated in the regular season (or in conference) in order to be crowned the champion.  There are all kinds of reasons Wesley could lose a game in conference.  Heck, both Mt Union and UWW were within seconds of losing conference games this year.  IMO, if they had, they'd still have been the favorites in nearly every playoff game they played. 

UWW played Waldorf to open the 2014 season and the same question could have been asked "does playing Waldorf benefit UWW"? 
Probably not the same as if UWW could play a mid level CCIW team, but there is still benefit.  It's the first game of the season and all kinds of processes need to be worked out- as such, any game is a benefit to a degree. 

As a fan, heck yes I'd like to see UWW v Wesley in the regular season, or UWW - North Central.  But these three teams have legitimate playoff expectations (not just hopes), and from the perspective of achieving the goal, I don't see reason for any of them to play each other.  Unless of course the selection process for Pool C were to change.

Just an additional perspective, I'm not sure how valid: I have seen some posters who seem to feel that a competitive loss to UW-W or Mount Union is not like a normal loss when it comes to playoff selection. If this is true, then a 2 loss Wesley team (with one of the losses to UW-W)  would still be in pretty good shape for a Pool C. I recognize that this is no sure thing and National Committees vary by year, but just a thought to throw out there. If it's true, scheduling UW-W or Mount may not be quite as risky as it would seem.

Bleed- I am one of those people that feel a competitive loss to a top team isn't like a loss to a normal team and I believe it should "count" differently. I mean more than just a SOS boost. I mean proof of likelihood to be competitive w the best would be an excellent subjective selection tool.
The more Pool C teams there are that have shown the ability to compete with the best, the better chance there is of a top seed getting knocked off in the playoffs (ie , the less likely we see Mt v UWW in 9 of 10 years). 

[oshfb]

Any other D3 players at the NFL Combine? I see Ali Marpet from Hobart was invited and did well:

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ali-marpet?id=2552332

[Pat Coleman]

Nope, he was the only one -- you should check the D3football.com front page for more.

[thewaterboy]

This is interesting. A Wesley-UWW matchup regardless of result would be amazing (even though it looks unlikely now). I think it would be worth the risk for both teams.

I agree with emma, the committee may be dumb sometimes but they aren't stupid. I think in their eyes a loss to UWW wouldn't matter much, even if Wesley takes another one on the chin to an NJAC team. They know teams like Mount, Linfield, UWW, Wesley and MHB and a few others are a notch above, so teams that lose to them don't get hurt too bad when it comes to playoffs. We've seen it with 2013 Wesley (getting waxed at MHB and losing to Rowan). Even with their SOS, I thought there was no shot they would make the playoffs. Point is, I dont think taking a loss to UWW week 1 will hurt, as long as they can take care of business with minimal slip-ups the rest of the way.

[wally_wabash]

This is interesting. A Wesley-UWW matchup regardless of result would be amazing (even though it looks unlikely now). I think it would be worth the risk for both teams.

I agree with emma, the committee may be dumb sometimes but they aren't stupid. I think in their eyes a loss to UWW wouldn't matter much, even if Wesley takes another one on the chin to an NJAC team. They know teams like Mount, Linfield, UWW, Wesley and MHB and a few others are a notch above, so teams that lose to them don't get hurt too bad when it comes to playoffs. We've seen it with 2013 Wesley (getting waxed at MHB and losing to Rowan). Even with their SOS, I thought there was no shot they would make the playoffs. Point is, I dont think taking a loss to UWW week 1 will hurt, as long as they can take care of business with minimal slip-ups the rest of the way.

Kind of a different beast here with 2013 Wesley in Pool B vs. Pool A/C.  Even at 4-2 vs. D3s, Wesley was always pretty safely in the field I think.  Maybe different if they had gotten smoked by Charlotte at the end of the year, but that didn't happen.  In fact, with Millsaps losing in that season's final week, Wesley was probably the first Pool B team in the field.  Take a 2-loss profile into Pool C and the game changes pretty significantly.  In Pool B, you're only being compared to teams in your own region (South) and, in 2013 at least, the East.  There were no viable candidates in other regions.  In Pool C, you'll have viable one-loss teams from every other region- it's a little harder to stand out there than it is in Pool B. 

[emma17]

This is interesting. A Wesley-UWW matchup regardless of result would be amazing (even though it looks unlikely now). I think it would be worth the risk for both teams.

I agree with emma, the committee may be dumb sometimes but they aren't stupid. I think in their eyes a loss to UWW wouldn't matter much, even if Wesley takes another one on the chin to an NJAC team. They know teams like Mount, Linfield, UWW, Wesley and MHB and a few others are a notch above, so teams that lose to them don't get hurt too bad when it comes to playoffs. We've seen it with 2013 Wesley (getting waxed at MHB and losing to Rowan). Even with their SOS, I thought there was no shot they would make the playoffs. Point is, I dont think taking a loss to UWW week 1 will hurt, as long as they can take care of business with minimal slip-ups the rest of the way.

Kind of a different beast here with 2013 Wesley in Pool B vs. Pool A/C.  Even at 4-2 vs. D3s, Wesley was always pretty safely in the field I think.  Maybe different if they had gotten smoked by Charlotte at the end of the year, but that didn't happen.  In fact, with Millsaps losing in that season's final week, Wesley was probably the first Pool B team in the field.  Take a 2-loss profile into Pool C and the game changes pretty significantly.  In Pool B, you're only being compared to teams in your own region (South) and, in 2013 at least, the East.  There were no viable candidates in other regions.  In Pool C, you'll have viable one-loss teams from every other region- it's a little harder to stand out there than it is in Pool B.

Good explanation Wally.
I believe I'm preaching to the choir here- the current inconsistent selection approach is more than enough reason for good AQ teams to be conservative in who they play non-conference. Perhaps a restructured, transparent and consistent methodology for Pool C would result in better non-conference games. 

[Pio425]

So what does everyone think of UWW hiring UWP's Rob Erickson as an assistant coach?

[KitchenSink]

So what does everyone think of UWW hiring UWP's Rob Erickson as an assistant coach?

Is that official?