FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[emma17]

Great job on the stats Wally.
I too see very little reason for teams to play UWW or Mt except for the experience.
If you're a coach of a team w playoff potential and in a solid league - don't risk the loss because you cannot count on the selection process.

Thus, this really comes down to redefining and restructuring the Pool B and C process. Give teams a greater degree of certainty.

[MasterJedi]

TCNJ is making the trek to the Perk next year. They couldn't this year because of Wesley being added to the schedule so at least we have one D3 game next year and I would hope UWW would be nice enough to make a trip to Finlandia next season. If that's the case only 1 more D3 game to schedule for next year.

[OzJohnnie]

Great job on the stats Wally.
I too see very little reason for teams to play UWW or Mt except for the experience.
If you're a coach of a team w playoff potential and in a solid league - don't risk the loss because you cannot count on the selection process.

Thus, this really comes down to redefining and restructuring the Pool B and C process. Give teams a greater degree of certainty.

UWW could consider revenue sharing or subsidization of opponents as well.  A big club like UWW, as tight as things are, has more money to splash around than most.  A two years at the Perk arrangement with a split gate receipt and travel costs, for example.  The travelling Johnnie Nation is a big benefit for many programs because the Johnnies almost always bring the biggest crowd of the year to any school.  Heck, some programs even jack up the ticket price a couple bucks for the Johnnie game specifically just to gouge the fan a little harder on the biggest attendance game, right UST?

I think you'll have a hard time changing post-season selection criteria to address this problem because no matter what you change it to there are still criteria.  You gotta win to get in.

[wally_wabash]

Thanks for the feedback.  Full disclosure here, I think it stinks that teams have trouble getting D3 games in areas where they shouldn't have much trouble.  The schools on travel islands just kind of have to live with that.  But the WIAC schools shouldn't have this much difficulty getting D3 games.  That said, I completely understand why teams don't play Whitewater- the ways teams have to access the championship tournament are such that I think it's tough to be too hard on teams within a reasonable distance from Whitewater for not scheduling games with them.  I certainly wouldn't advocate Wabash playing Whitewater in September- not that anybody is asking my opinion  .  If and when Wabash clears that hurdle, I want it to be in November/December when it really, really matters. 

[badgerwarhawk]

We have actually paid the expenses of out of conference opponents in the past Oz.   But those days are likely ended.  I'm not sure that those of you from privates understand the stress the Wisconsin public system is about to undergo.  Four universities in our system have already begun offering payments to faculty who wish to retire prematurely to stave off the impact of anticipated budget cuts.  Things are likely going to get pretty ugly. 

[bleedpurple]

Totally my bad on forgetting to ask the scheduling question, Wally. I have been to WW twice  (Including yesterday!) since the topic came up on the boards and I completely forgot to ask about it. 

I think the questions are:

1. Is UW-W currently under a 500 mile travel restriction for away games? (And, did Wesley offer a home and home?) 
2. From UW-W's perspective (which is the only one I can really ask for), what are the factors involved in the inability to schedule D-III games?

Thanks for your post. That was a lot of information!  I agree that there are not great incentives for most teams to play UW-W (along with a number of other schools) under the current system. While it does stink for us, the system doesn't exist to serve UW-W (although, at the end of the day,  it would be hard to argue that it has adversely affected Whitewater very much).

My thought isn't that it would benefit most teams in a particular season to play UW-W. While playing an elite team is not the be all or end all in developing an ascending program, it certainly can be a valuable experience along the way. It just feels like with 244 teams, there ought to be a few at a stage in their building process that it could benefit them to take a shot.  I know the dream of making the playoffs is a part of the D-III experience.

What about teams that annually finish in the middle of the pack in a good year. Let's say an Elmhurst or a St. Olaf? Yes, playoffs could be a possibility if everything breaks right, but there are substantial roadblocks in both of those conferences. Could not taking a shot at UW-W be one of the most fun aspects of a season for one of those teams?

I'm guessing a lot of recent former D-III players look back on their careers and kind of wish they would have had just one shot at a UW-W or Mount at some point.

[warthog]

Schedule is out for UWW:

Non-Conf
At Belhaven 9/12  (Oooops)
Finlandia 9/19
at Morningside 9/24

Conf Schedule
10/3 Platteville (home)
10/10 Oshkosh (away)
10/16 LaCrosse (home)  FRIDAY NIGHT
10/24 Stevens Point (away)
10/31 Eau Claire (home)
11/7 River Falls (away)
11/14 Stout (home)

Fans of NAIA tough guys Morningside are already on my facebook page telling how the cream of NAIA will beat up on the cream of NCAA D3 when September 24th rolls around.  They obviously haven't a clue about some of the top NCAA D3 teams.  All they would post to me was "NAIA can give athletic scholarships, so NAIA has better athletics."  Please UWW, kick their butts all over the place on September 24th.

[02 Warhawk]

Totally my bad on forgetting to ask the scheduling question, Wally. I have been to WW twice  (Including yesterday!) since the topic came up on the boards and I completely forgot to ask about it. 

I think the questions are:

1. Is UW-W currently under a 500 mile travel restriction for away games? (And, did Wesley offer a home and home?) 
2. From UW-W's perspective (which is the only one I can really ask for), what are the factors involved in the inability to schedule D-III games?

Thanks for your post. That was a lot of information!  I agree that there are not great incentives for most teams to play UW-W (along with a number of other schools) under the current system. While it does stink for us, the system doesn't exist to serve UW-W (although, at the end of the day,  it would be hard to argue that it has adversely affected Whitewater very much).

My thought isn't that it would benefit most teams in a particular season to play UW-W. While playing an elite team is not the be all or end all in developing an ascending program, it certainly can be a valuable experience along the way. It just feels like with 244 teams, there ought to be a few at a stage in their building process that it could benefit them to take a shot.  I know the dream of making the playoffs is a part of the D-III experience.

What about teams that annually finish in the middle of the pack in a good year. Let's say an Elmhurst or a St. Olaf? Yes, playoffs could be a possibility if everything breaks right, but there are substantial roadblocks in both of those conferences. Could not taking a shot at UW-W be one of the most fun aspects of a season for one of those teams?

I'm guessing a lot of recent former D-III players look back on their careers and kind of wish they would have had just one shot at a UW-W or Mount at some point.

Like a Buffalo State. It was definitely worked out great for them taking the risk in 2012. I know they missed the playoffs that year, but I bet the seniors enjoyed coming to UWW and taking down the 3 time national champs.

[02 Warhawk]

Schedule is out for UWW:

Non-Conf
At Belhaven 9/12  (Oooops)
Finlandia 9/19
at Morningside 9/24

Conf Schedule
10/3 Platteville (home)
10/10 Oshkosh (away)
10/16 LaCrosse (home)  FRIDAY NIGHT
10/24 Stevens Point (away)
10/31 Eau Claire (home)
11/7 River Falls (away)
11/14 Stout (home)

Fans of NAIA tough guys Morningside are already on my facebook page telling how the cream of NAIA will beat up on the cream of NCAA D3 when September 24th rolls around.  They obviously haven't a clue about some of the top NCAA D3 teams.  All they would post to me was "NAIA can give athletic scholarships, so NAIA has better athletics."  Please UWW, kick their butts all over the place on September 24th.

We'll see how good Morningside is this year without Brandon Wegher...their star RB last year who transferred in from U of Iowa. The kid put up ridiculous numbers for them last year. They are returning a ton of talent it looks like. Including their all-american QB and WR, along with their entire O-line.

They have won 4 straight conference titles, and consistently finish in the top 10 nationally.

Sounds like a rare meeting between DIII and NAIA powers. This won't be a typical NAIA blowout win for the Hawks...it'll be very tough.

[thewaterboy]

Totally my bad on forgetting to ask the scheduling question, Wally. I have been to WW twice  (Including yesterday!) since the topic came up on the boards and I completely forgot to ask about it. 

I think the questions are:

1. Is UW-W currently under a 500 mile travel restriction for away games? (And, did Wesley offer a home and home?) 
2. From UW-W's perspective (which is the only one I can really ask for), what are the factors involved in the inability to schedule D-III games?

Thanks for your post. That was a lot of information!  I agree that there are not great incentives for most teams to play UW-W (along with a number of other schools) under the current system. While it does stink for us, the system doesn't exist to serve UW-W (although, at the end of the day,  it would be hard to argue that it has adversely affected Whitewater very much).

My thought isn't that it would benefit most teams in a particular season to play UW-W. While playing an elite team is not the be all or end all in developing an ascending program, it certainly can be a valuable experience along the way. It just feels like with 244 teams, there ought to be a few at a stage in their building process that it could benefit them to take a shot.  I know the dream of making the playoffs is a part of the D-III experience.

What about teams that annually finish in the middle of the pack in a good year. Let's say an Elmhurst or a St. Olaf? Yes, playoffs could be a possibility if everything breaks right, but there are substantial roadblocks in both of those conferences. Could not taking a shot at UW-W be one of the most fun aspects of a season for one of those teams?

I'm guessing a lot of recent former D-III players look back on their careers and kind of wish they would have had just one shot at a UW-W or Mount at some point.

As someone who is close to Wesley, they did reach out to UWW for a game (pretty sure it was home and home but not positive). They also reached out to North Central.

[wally_wabash]

My thought isn't that it would benefit most teams in a particular season to play UW-W. While playing an elite team is not the be all or end all in developing an ascending program, it certainly can be a valuable experience along the way. It just feels like with 244 teams, there ought to be a few at a stage in their building process that it could benefit them to take a shot.  I know the dream of making the playoffs is a part of the D-III experience.

What about teams that annually finish in the middle of the pack in a good year. Let's say an Elmhurst or a St. Olaf? Yes, playoffs could be a possibility if everything breaks right, but there are substantial roadblocks in both of those conferences. Could not taking a shot at UW-W be one of the most fun aspects of a season for one of those teams?

I'm guessing a lot of recent former D-III players look back on their careers and kind of wish they would have had just one shot at a UW-W or Mount at some point.

I actually think that the profile of a team that benefits most out of these games is somebody like Franklin- a team that dominates a bad league and isn't in great jeopardy of missing the playoffs even if they lose to UWW.  Teams like Elmhurst and St. Olaf get enough big games against upper crust teams that they don't really need a game against UWW to have a "big game".  Those schools get plenty, and those league games in the MIAC and CCIW are amplified significantly when Elmhurst/St. Olaf are good. 

I think another thing to keep in consideration is that schools may schedule non-league games for a hundred reasons other than just the football in the here and now.  Teams may schedule home and homes with teams located in areas that a school wants to recruit in.  Teams may schedule home and homes with teams across town because it's cheap (see the annual Elmhurst/Chicago series).  And one other thing in play here that might be a tad distasteful is that schools may simply prefer to schedule these non-league contests with institutions that they view as peers- institutions with similar missions and philosophies and makeups (for the most extreme example, see Wabash/Hampden-Sydney).  And I'm not knocking you guys here, but I think you have to realize that the schools in the WIAC are not like most of the rest of the division and that many schools may prefer and gravitate towards competition with private, lib arts schools instead of the larger, state-run institutions in Wisconsin.  That's not a not right/wrong judgment on my part, just one factor that's out there that may contribute to the WIACs have difficulty filling schedules. 

[Pat Coleman]

TCNJ is making the trek to the Perk next year. They couldn't this year because of Wesley being added to the schedule so at least we have one D3 game next year and I would hope UWW would be nice enough to make a trip to Finlandia next season. If that's the case only 1 more D3 game to schedule for next year.

Finlandia is trying to get into a conference, so they may or may not be able to return.

[emma17]

All good points above. I agree Franklin is the best example of a team w the least to lose in scheduling up.
I'd be surprised Wally (not saying you're wrong) if there are many head coaches (with playoff success aspirations) that won't schedule UWW because they don't view UWW as peers from a missions/philosophies standpoint.

Bleed you made a good point that the system doesn't exist to serve UWW- so it's important to view this in the big picture. Part of that picture is the experience for the student-athlete. I know back in the day we wanted a shot to play Augie during their reign (I don't have any inside information as to whether the coaches tried to make it happen).  That would have added to our experience certainly.

As for how this all impacts playoff hopes. I'd like to think a new approach to B and C would help. Currently the system rewards a team with SOS for playing up, but it penalizes when a loss is added to the overall record.

Can a system be devised where a loss is a win, or at least not a loss?

[badgerwarhawk]

All good points above. I agree Franklin is the best example of a team w the least to lose in scheduling up.
I'd be surprised Wally (not saying you're wrong) if there are many head coaches (with playoff success aspirations) that won't schedule UWW because they don't view UWW as peers from a missions/philosophies standpoint.

I wouldn't be surprised at all and I think Wally makes a valid point.  There are privates that do not view us as peers simply because we participate at the DIII level.  I might even venture a guess that there are significantly more who don't than there are those who do.  To what extent that influences their willingness to schedule us varies.  Cathage's previous restriction (I think the current adminstration is ok with it) on scheduling public schools in any sports unless it was a multiple team event (i.e. track meet) is an illustration of that point.   

[Pat Coleman]

All good points above. I agree Franklin is the best example of a team w the least to lose in scheduling up.
I'd be surprised Wally (not saying you're wrong) if there are many head coaches (with playoff success aspirations) that won't schedule UWW because they don't view UWW as peers from a missions/philosophies standpoint.

I wouldn't be surprised at all and I think Wally makes a valid point.  There are privates that do not view us as peers simply because we participate at the DIII level.  I might even venture a guess that there are significantly more who don't than there are those who do.  To what extent that influences their willingness to schedule us varies.  Cathage's previous restriction (I think the current adminstration is ok with it) on scheduling public schools in any sports unless it was a multiple team event (i.e. track meet) is an illustration of that point.

Exactly. This attitude is definitely out there.