FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[AndOne]

*Those bemoaning UW-W's low tuition (compared to their favorite institution) fail to mention that, almost without exception, their schools are not even competing directly for the same  athletes as UW-W. If UW-W were located near Crestview Hills, KY, I could see a Thomas  More fan complaining about the tuition differential.  But to get to the playoffs, UW-W competes against schools with similar "advantages" they have. Not exactly the same, but certainly similar in terms of tuition. We don't have D-II's in Wisconsin, but we compete against those other public schools that some believe "Should be D-II". Incidentally, UW-W is the only WIAC school of which I am aware that does NOT have a reciprocity agreement with Illinois.   So there is a conference DISADVANTAGE right there. Frankly, I could care less if Thomas More decreased their tuition to ZERO. We don't recruit the same guys they do.

While its very true that the Warhawks don't compete with Thomas More for players, what you have failed to mention is that UWW not only competes for players with the other WIAC teams, but they also compete for players with both all the private schools within a reasonable distance of Milwaukee. plus all the privates in the Chicago metropolitan area. And, while UWW has little or no financial advantage over their fellow conference schools who have the same relative costs, they do enjoy a tremendous financial advantage over most if not all of the private schools within a reasonable distance of Whitewater.

[AndOne]

*If UW-W has so much more money available than privates, why is UW-W bussing to Jackson, MS (an 11 hour 28 minute drive without traffic per Google Maps) while Wesley College is flying to Chicago (an 11 hour 32 minute driver without traffic per Google Maps)?

Ha, I think the answer, or at least a big portion of the answer, to that question night be found here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/08/12/scott_walker_s_basketball_stadium_finance_bill_the_wisconsin_governor_just.html

[AndOne]

WHITEWATER and a CCIW school were in intense competition for a local baseball player.  The CCIW school offered all kinds of money to him even though he was an average, at best, student.  However when they learned that they were $500 more expensive than our instate tuition and he was likely going to be a WARHAWK they offered him a $500 "music" scholarship.  That was enough to get him.  The kid had never had anything to do with music in high school and never took anything even remotely music related at the CCIW school.  He used all his eligibility but did not graduate.

My daughter attended a CCIW school to play volleyball and paid considerably less than she would have at WHITEWATER.  She ended up transferring after a year because she just didn't like being in the Chicago suburbs.

I'm really tired of the tuition argument.  My experience tells me when it comes to tuition that when the privates have the will they find the way.

Badger,

I'm sure all, or close to all, schools occasionally get very creative when it comes to finding dollars not labeled as "athletic," even though that is no doubt the proper classification of those dollars.

In the instance you describe above, I sense you received the information about the $500.00 "music" scholarship money on a secondhand basis in you weren't present when the offer was revealed. Therefore, how do you know this actually happened? Is there any possibility someone in the athletic department just told you a tall tale in jest? 

[bulk19]

I remember Michael Zweifel (Gagliardi Trophy winner) went to Whitewater high school, but selected to attend River Falls.... before ending up at Dubuque. I believe a lot of his decission making had to do where his dad was (and wasn't) coaching at that time.

WR Tony Bilderback also went to Whitewater H.S. but is currently a SR at UWL.

Tony Bilderback is done...

[AndOne]

My son who was a solid player at UWW never received a dollar from Whitewater......five years out of state tuition (red shirt freshman year).....he chose UWW because of the facilities and coaches....went to the Stagg Bowl 2005 and 06....This year an excellent wide receiver from his high school and a good kid attempted to enroll but the financial package didn't come close so he is at a junior college.....for those young men who don't have the $$$ out of state tuition costs can be a hurdle that is impossible to make.....

Sak,

It seems funny that your son did not receive even $1. It sounds like he was a very good player. Do you own a bank? 
Given your son's apparent ability, you should have been more assertive with the financial aid office!

Conversely, I can readily understand picking a school for facilities and great coaching.

As for those young men "who don't have the $$$ for out of state tuition costs that can be a hurdle that is impossible to make.....,"
it appears you are, in this instance, talking about a kid who wound up at a JUCO as opposed to a four year school. If so, are you not comparing apples to oranges, especially in light of the fact that you would expect tuition at a JUCO to be less that that of a four year school? 
One of the primary reasons kids end up at JUCOs is lower costs.

[bleedpurple]

*Those bemoaning UW-W's low tuition (compared to their favorite institution) fail to mention that, almost without exception, their schools are not even competing directly for the same  athletes as UW-W. If UW-W were located near Crestview Hills, KY, I could see a Thomas  More fan complaining about the tuition differential.  But to get to the playoffs, UW-W competes against schools with similar "advantages" they have. Not exactly the same, but certainly similar in terms of tuition. We don't have D-II's in Wisconsin, but we compete against those other public schools that some believe "Should be D-II". Incidentally, UW-W is the only WIAC school of which I am aware that does NOT have a reciprocity agreement with Illinois.   So there is a conference DISADVANTAGE right there. Frankly, I could care less if Thomas More decreased their tuition to ZERO. We don't recruit the same guys they do.

While its very true that the Warhawks don't compete with Thomas More for players, what you have failed to mention is that UWW not only competes for players with the other WIAC teams, but they also compete for players with both all the private schools within a reasonable distance of Milwaukee. plus all the privates in the Chicago metropolitan area. And, while UWW has little or no financial advantage over their fellow conference schools who have the same relative costs, they do enjoy a tremendous financial advantage over most if not all of the private schools within a reasonable distance of Whitewater.

It's true I didn't mention that because I think that contention has been made somewhere between 500 and 1,000 times on this board. I have also read other posters who give first hand examples of private schools finding ways to lessen the financial gap between the schools. 

But I'll be honest with you, I think it's awesome. If UW-W can offer a kid an incredible experience, high level facilities, high level coaching, a chance for a national championship, and a great education (without making his family go bankrupt), then I'm not going to pretend it's something to apologize for. Does it make us hard to compete with? Hope so. 

[bleedpurple]

Will the running game dominate the UW-W offensive plan in 2015? Find out here:

www.warhawkfootball.com

[Pat Coleman]

*Those bemoaning UW-W's low tuition (compared to their favorite institution) fail to mention that, almost without exception, their schools are not even competing directly for the same  athletes as UW-W. If UW-W were located near Crestview Hills, KY, I could see a Thomas  More fan complaining about the tuition differential.  But to get to the playoffs, UW-W competes against schools with similar "advantages" they have. Not exactly the same, but certainly similar in terms of tuition. We don't have D-II's in Wisconsin, but we compete against those other public schools that some believe "Should be D-II". Incidentally, UW-W is the only WIAC school of which I am aware that does NOT have a reciprocity agreement with Illinois.   So there is a conference DISADVANTAGE right there. Frankly, I could care less if Thomas More decreased their tuition to ZERO. We don't recruit the same guys they do.

While its very true that the Warhawks don't compete with Thomas More for players, what you have failed to mention is that UWW not only competes for players with the other WIAC teams, but they also compete for players with both all the private schools within a reasonable distance of Milwaukee. plus all the privates in the Chicago metropolitan area. And, while UWW has little or no financial advantage over their fellow conference schools who have the same relative costs, they do enjoy a tremendous financial advantage over most if not all of the private schools within a reasonable distance of Whitewater.

It's true I didn't mention that because I think that contention has been made somewhere between 500 and 1,000 times on this board.

Yeah. That would have been a Capt. Obvious moment.

[MasterJedi]

*If UW-W has so much more money available than privates, why is UW-W bussing to Jackson, MS (an 11 hour 28 minute drive without traffic per Google Maps) while Wesley College is flying to Chicago (an 11 hour 32 minute driver without traffic per Google Maps)?

Ha, I think the answer, or at least a big portion of the answer, to that question night be found here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/08/12/scott_walker_s_basketball_stadium_finance_bill_the_wisconsin_governor_just.html

The arena part at least actually has nothing to do with it since that funding (only about $80 million after interest) comes from bonding (future funds) not present funding that was cut. But the "cut school funding and gave it to a basketball team" storyline is better for more people's agendas then the actual facts.

[NewHawk]

I can say from eye-witness accounts that they private schools provide enough funding through various and assorted scholarships to make playing there affordable. For good players it is not a finance issue that makes them chose UWW.  I think one think that is being missed is the campus environment at UWW.  With the enrollment size it has a big school feel. There is also something to be said for playing in front of 10k people every home game and having a whole town supporting the team. Whitewater is a great football town and they love the Warhawks. It is not all about the money.

[badgerwarhawk]

WHITEWATER and a CCIW school were in intense competition for a local baseball player.  The CCIW school offered all kinds of money to him even though he was an average, at best, student.  However when they learned that they were $500 more expensive than our instate tuition and he was likely going to be a WARHAWK they offered him a $500 "music" scholarship.  That was enough to get him.  The kid had never had anything to do with music in high school and never took anything even remotely music related at the CCIW school.  He used all his eligibility but did not graduate.

My daughter attended a CCIW school to play volleyball and paid considerably less than she would have at WHITEWATER.  She ended up transferring after a year because she just didn't like being in the Chicago suburbs.

I'm really tired of the tuition argument.  My experience tells me when it comes to tuition that when the privates have the will they find the way.

Badger,

I'm sure all, or close to all, schools occasionally get very creative when it comes to finding dollars not labeled as "athletic," even though that is no doubt the proper classification of those dollars.

In the instance you describe above, I sense you received the information about the $500.00 "music" scholarship money on a secondhand basis in you weren't present when the offer was revealed. Therefore, how do you know this actually happened? Is there any possibility someone in the athletic department just told you a tall tale in jest? 

No, actually my source calls himself the athlete's father. 

I'm kicking myself for even getting involved in this discussion. 

[BoBo]

*Those bemoaning UW-W's low tuition (compared to their favorite institution) fail to mention that, almost without exception, their schools are not even competing directly for the same  athletes as UW-W. If UW-W were located near Crestview Hills, KY, I could see a Thomas  More fan complaining about the tuition differential.  But to get to the playoffs, UW-W competes against schools with similar "advantages" they have. Not exactly the same, but certainly similar in terms of tuition. We don't have D-II's in Wisconsin, but we compete against those other public schools that some believe "Should be D-II". Incidentally, UW-W is the only WIAC school of which I am aware that does NOT have a reciprocity agreement with Illinois.   So there is a conference DISADVANTAGE right there. Frankly, I could care less if Thomas More decreased their tuition to ZERO. We don't recruit the same guys they do.

While its very true that the Warhawks don't compete with Thomas More for players, what you have failed to mention is that UWW not only competes for players with the other WIAC teams, but they also compete for players with both all the private schools within a reasonable distance of Milwaukee. plus all the privates in the Chicago metropolitan area. And, while UWW has little or no financial advantage over their fellow conference schools who have the same relative costs, they do enjoy a tremendous financial advantage over most if not all of the private schools within a reasonable distance of Whitewater.

Capt. Obvious,

1. If you include Carthage, Carroll, Concordia and Lakeland as reasonable distance from Milwaukee that UWW completes against for recruits, I think you're full of it. Look at their rosters - mainly out of staters from as far away as that football hotbed of Nigeria (in the case of Lakeland). Very few wisconsinites. So I would say, no, they don't compete against those privates. I think those privates understand they don't stand a very good chance against the likes of UWW, Oshkosh and then to a lesser degree the other WIAC schools to the north and west, especially for players who want to aim high in their football career. UWW's roster is mainly all southeastern WI, with a few exceptions. And the rest from the northern suburbs of Chicago - with a couple exceptions. On a side note, do you really believe those private schools are really going to recruit the type of player Whitewater recruits. Those privates will literally take anyone who can breath - just to get the tuition money. The WIAC, with only 100 player rosters means, they just can't recruit to put someone in a helmet and cleats, they have to be able to play someday, not just pay a ridiculous amount of tuition for 4 years. I saw one freshman at Lakeland who was listed as 5'5 200# OL out of Chicago. Maybe it was a misprint, but it's been there since I first saw that roster last week, so I will assume it is correct (can you picture that scary sight wearing #74 coming at you). Even at a school like Lakeland, do you really think that kid has a chance to play at that size? I think the only schools in competition with Lakeland over that player was another private school.

2. Same goes for as you say all the privates in the Chicago metropolitan area. Can't buy into that either. A couple of them, maybe, but all  - you must have been smoking that wacky tobacky when you wrote that. You certainly go full bore with the exaggeration.

[BoBo]

I remember Michael Zweifel (Gagliardi Trophy winner) went to Whitewater high school, but selected to attend River Falls.... before ending up at Dubuque. I believe a lot of his decission making had to do where his dad was (and wasn't) coaching at that time.

WR Tony Bilderback also went to Whitewater H.S. but is currently a SR at UWL.

Zweifel going to UWW would've created a highly awkward situation considering his father's bad vibes toward Plinski coming out of the coaching hiring. You knew that wasn't going to happen. Nobody wanted to go through that drama. Do you really think he would have gone to River Falls had his dad not been coaching there and had a hand in changing from the bone to a pass first, pass often offense. That is the time they scrapped the bone, right?

[ExTartanPlayer]

1. If you include Carthage, Carroll, Concordia and Lakeland as reasonable distance from Milwaukee that UWW completes against for recruits, I think you're full of it. Look at their rosters - mainly out of staters from as far away as that football hotbed of Nigeria (in the case of Lakeland). Very few wisconsinites. So I would say, no, they don't compete against those privates. I think those privates understand they don't stand a very good chance against the likes of UWW, Oshkosh and then to a lesser degree the other WIAC schools to the north and west, especially for players who want to aim high in their football career. UWW's roster is mainly all southeastern WI, with a few exceptions. And the rest from the northern suburbs of Chicago - with a couple exceptions. On a side note, do you really believe those private schools are really going to recruit the type of player Whitewater recruits. Those privates will literally take anyone who can breath - just to get the tuition money. The WIAC, with only 100 player rosters means, they just can't recruit to put someone in a helmet and cleats, they have to be able to play someday, not just pay a ridiculous amount of tuition for 4 years.

OK, I actually want to present this from a different side of things.

I do agree with you, BoBo, that these schools are not recruiting the same types of players.  No question; a football player that wants to compete on the UWW level, and has a serious chance to do so, is probably not also weighing whether to play at Carthage and Concordia.  He might be weighing a partial scholarship from an FCS, D2, or NAIA school, but probably isn't debating "Carthage vs. UWW."

However, you are focusing only on the "player" side, and that neglects an important piece of the recruiting decision: these are not just players, but they are student-athletes making a college decision, not a football decision.  I am not familiar with all of the schools listed and their respective academic prowess, but on the whole, most private schools are not taking "anyone who can breathe just to get the tuition money."  Please go speak with the admissions staff at the University of Chicago if you believe that is the case.  Some of those "private schools in the Chicago area" are very selective institutions that (and there's no possible way to say this without coming off like an impossible snob) would probably not admit some of the student-athletes who may be admitted to the WIAC schools.

(ducking the inevitable barrage of cheese curds being hurled my way)

So there are two sides to this coin.  You are correct UWW and "private schools in the Chicago area" are probably not competing for too many of the same student-athletes.  That is partly because UWW is aiming high for exceptional athletes that can compete for the Stagg Bowl champs, and also partly because some of the exceptional students (who also happen to play football) may have crossed UWW off their lists because of other academic preferences.  Trying to be as diplomatic as possible here, if I had been a capable enough player to suit up for UWW in 2004, when I was graduating high school, I would have had a very difficult time convincing my parents that UWW was the right place for me to go to school, not necessarily to play football.

This doesn't tip the balance of the "UWW has it easy/hard" argument one way or the other.  Merely illustrating that it is silly to say that UWW and "private schools" are not recruiting the same guys and only mention the football side of that argument, as though academics have no bearing on a student-athlete's decision.

[badgerwarhawk]

I remember Michael Zweifel (Gagliardi Trophy winner) went to Whitewater high school, but selected to attend River Falls.... before ending up at Dubuque. I believe a lot of his decission making had to do where his dad was (and wasn't) coaching at that time.

WR Tony Bilderback also went to Whitewater H.S. but is currently a SR at UWL.

Zweifel going to UWW would've created a highly awkward situation considering his father's bad vibes toward Plinski coming out of the coaching hiring. You knew that wasn't going to happen. Nobody wanted to go through that drama. Do you really think he would have gone to River Falls had his dad not been coaching there and had a hand in changing from the bone to a pass first, pass often offense. That is the time they scrapped the bone, right?

Yes