FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Pat Coleman]

Whitewater has added great skill players to their tremendous line talent in their recent run. UWL doesn't necessarily need bigger linemen, but they need to be better to compete in the WIAC.

More succintly than I said it, but exactly what I was driving at. 

They don't need bigger dudes; they need better dudes.

(And yes, it's possible that those "better" dudes will also be bigger dudes)

Once upon a time the knock on WIAC teams was that they were big and slow. Obviously that was a broad brush used to paint any team in the league, fair or not, but the smaller, quicker St. John's defensive line had some success against Stevens Point in 1999 and 2001 and against Stout in 2000. Whether that's accurate or not, I don't remember, but that was the reputation.

Whitewater hasn't had that problem.

[ScreamingEagles]

Whitewater has added great skill players to their tremendous line talent in their recent run. UWL doesn't necessarily need bigger linemen, but they need to be better to compete in the WIAC.

More succintly than I said it, but exactly what I was driving at. 

They don't need bigger dudes; they need better dudes.

(And yes, it's possible that those "better" dudes will also be bigger dudes)

Yes - I'm advocating that bigger does typically mean better (although maybe not communicated effectively).  In total agreement that UWL needs better players regardless of gameday coaching.

[d-train]

So better players are better? Got it...thanks guys. 

[ScreamingEagles]

So better players are better? Got it...thanks guys. 

Just in case anyone wasn't aware.

[ExTartanPlayer]

So better players are better? Got it...thanks guys. 

That's the kind of high-level analysis you get around here.

[OzJohnnie]

If an award isn't made of walnut and bronze or fit on your finger, we lose interest. 

I think the attitude is clear.

So is the envy. 

Ha!  You may be right. The only legitimate emotion that outsiders can feel about the precious, defensive, close-minded, self-centred, aggressive and abusive Prima Donnas that make up a significant part of the UWW fan base here is envy. Envy is exactly the first emotion I feel when reading some of the more personal abuse that goes on here.

[Pat Coleman]

If an award isn't made of walnut and bronze or fit on your finger, we lose interest. 

I think the attitude is clear.

So is the envy. 

Ha!  You may be right. The only legitimate emotion that outsiders can feel about the precious, defensive, close-minded, self-centred, aggressive and abusive Prima Donnas that make up a significant part of the UWW fan base here is envy. Envy is exactly the first emotion I feel when reading some of the more personal abuse that goes on here.

As a St. John's fan, I can see why you would recognize these traits.

[bleedpurple]

If an award isn't made of walnut and bronze or fit on your finger, we lose interest. 

I think the attitude is clear.

So is the envy. 

Ha!  You may be right. The only legitimate emotion that outsiders can feel about the precious, defensive, close-minded, self-centred, aggressive and abusive Prima Donnas that make up a significant part of the UWW fan base here is envy. Envy is exactly the first emotion I feel when reading some of the more personal abuse that goes on here.

As a St. John's fan, I can see why you would recognize these traits.

Now that is an awesome response!

And I'm not even sure what Oz said. 

[bleedpurple]

*Disclaimer: I was a mildly successful offensive tackle at 5'11" and 235 pounds (admittedly not in the WIAC), so bear in mind that this colors my opinion of the following issue.

I was more thinking of the 2002/2003/2004 WIAC Champ teams that just had big guys across the board.  As recently as 2008/2009 or so we still had big linemen/linebackers who were intimidating.  I still strongly believe that success will come from size and physicality - we've seen it with UWW and Mount Union.

1. UWW, yes, but I don't know that this is really true of Mount Union.  The Mount Union game notes this week list an offensive line with all five starters ranging from 250-275 pounds, and a defensive line where the starters are 260/240 at tackle and 225 at both end/LB positions.  I do not know the exact size of their starters over the last several years but my outsider's perspective was always that speed set them apart much more than their size...really, I never thought their OL/DL was significantly larger than the rest of D3.  Big, sure, but plenty of other teams can run out a comparably sized lineup.  For example, their opponents from Muskingum (per this week's game notes) will start a slightly larger man-for-man OL and a DL with tackles at 300/230.

To be sure, there's a difference between size and physicality.  I played against 300-pound dudes that were as soft as the Michelin Man and 240-pound guys that knocked the facemask loose from my helmet.  I am not suggesting that physicality is unimportant, rather that having bigger bodies does not necessarily lead to a more physically dominant team.  Leading to my second point...

2. I'm not exactly reinventing the wheel by saying this, but "size" is only one factor and (IMO) it falls behind a few others in overall importance.  You can win with big guys or you can with small(ish) guys, but if you have small guys then there's less margin for error in the other areas (speed, technique, coaching/gameplan).  Starting 255-pound offensive tackles and 210-pound defensive ends does not, in any way, preclude success on the Division III level.  However, the 255-pound offensive tackle must have a coaching staff that puts him in a position to succeed and/or have superior technique and speed that helps to offset the size disadvantage.

Long story short, I don't think the answer for UWL is just recruiting bigger bodies.  I think you recognize that, ScreamingEagles, just wanted to make this point.

Yes, I definitely recognize that Ex.  My desire for bigger bodies also comes from the size of teams in our conference.  I know that not all of D3 Football players are that size, but when we have to play our conference foes in addition to Mary Hardin Baylor, St. Thomas etc. every year we need it.  I have watched countless times UWSP (who always seems to have a 6'6" 300+ pound tackle) and other conference foes bulldoze our 210 pound d-ends.  Just gets a little frustrating to watch - sorry for any exaggeration.

It is my opinion that football is won in trenches. I played at UWO in the early 1990s. UWL, UWW, and UWSP won the battle in the trenches then. Wisconsin and Illinois continue to produce a lot of great linemen. Just look at the Badgers year in and year out. UWL bullied teams to two national titles when I was at Oshkosh. Whitewater has added great skill players to their tremendous line talent in their recent run. UWL doesn't necessarily need bigger linemen, but they need to be better to compete in the WIAC.

Back to football...

LaCrosse has been struggling since '07, losing games they should not have lost.  But, it seems like something happened back in October of 2012 when I look at the scores.  Other than an occasional bad loss to Whitewater, they were pretty competitive against some high level D-III teams and really didn't seem to get blown off the field:

In 2010: Lost to UMHB by 5
In 2011: Lost to UMHB by 7 and UW-W by 14
in 2012 September: Beat North Central by 4, Lost to Oshkosh by 9
In 2012 October and later:  Lost to UW-P by 30, UW-O by 34, and UW-W by 24.
In 2013: Lost to NCC by 24, UW-W by 44, UW-O by 24
In 2014: Lost to St. Thomas by 46, UMHB by 19 (scoring w/17 secs left or would have been 25), UW-W by 31
In 2015: Lost to St. Thomas by 44.

The whole streak on non-winning seasons in the WIAC is strange, but it seems like the bottom has dropped out a bit the last few years.

[bulk19]

Sheesh, we've ruffled the feathers of a few Hawks' fans here and are only in week 3...

(And fellas, surprise, surprise, but I do know WIACers who will never root for those from Whitewater. Never.)

As for the specific UWW QB mentioned here in recent posts - including update links I provided - if I, at the start of training camp, were to order a jersey for a backup QB in Green Bay, I'd have ordered a #16 Scott Tolzien, because I'd always support a Badger competing for a roster spot over a UWW player in the pros...

When it comes to third stringers, would I have chosen a Brett Hundley jersey over a Matt Blanchard one? Probably not. But I wouldn't buy a Blanchard one, either. I'd consider getting a Cleveland Browns Blanchard jersey over a Johnny Manziel one, though, but ultimately would keep that cash in my pocket, too...

[Just Bill]

Grown men shouldn't wear jerseys of other grown men unless he happens to the first grown man's son. But that's a discussion for another time.

[BDB]

If an award isn't made of walnut and bronze or fit on your finger, we lose interest. 

I think the attitude is clear.

So is the envy. 

Perfect. On that note, I've lost interest. Enjoy the sewing circle.

[MasterJedi]

If an award isn't made of walnut and bronze or fit on your finger, we lose interest. 

I think the attitude is clear.

So is the envy. 

Ha!  You may be right. The only legitimate emotion that outsiders can feel about the precious, defensive, close-minded, self-centred, aggressive and abusive Prima Donnas that make up a significant part of the UWW fan base here is envy. Envy is exactly the first emotion I feel when reading some of the more personal abuse that goes on here.

As a St. John's fan, I can see why you would recognize these traits.

Careful Pat, you've poked the precious church of St Johns. The Johnnies are perfect and they do nothing wrong, EVER. Remember that, they are perfect and everyone else is the lowly slobs of D3.
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Go St Thomas!

[OzJohnnie]

Oh, sure. After a tip from the Jedi Master you come out with a little pot calling the kettle black banter.

"United in Hate for SJU!  Go Tommies!  Go 'Hawks!"  The shiny recruiting brochure practically writes itself.

[gren]

So better players are better? Got it...thanks guys. 

Agreed