FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[jamtod]

That's cute that Eau Claire is better than Hamline, but if you want to have some more confidence in someone's ranking I think you've got to look to the toughest games that team has played, not the easiest.  St. John's has played and beat two teams ranked higher than any team Whitewater has played. 
Opponent rankings:
1) St. Thomas
2) Bethel
3) Oshkosh
4) LaCrosse
5) Thomas More

Rankings have nothing to do with any of this.

Certainly not the top 25, but the Regional Rankings might, which have #1 and #2 swapped but otherwise are the same as above. Although I'm not clear that the committee criterion really evaluates relative strength of RRO wins/losses (I assume they do) or how that is balanced with SOS and other factors (including the most important one: defensive yardage and YPC allowed in your top rivalry games).

Yes, looking at it that way, you're right. I'm not sure either.

SOS has to play a major part in their decision. That's the only thing that can't be disputed that makes sense.

Yeah, SOS is the easiest conclusion. Honestly, it's a tough choice and I don't think you can go wrong either way. We know that prior year playoff performance is a factor in certain situations, but I don't know if that even comes into play here. If it does, SJU with a 1st round loss vs Whitewater not in the playoffs really isn't a big difference. Somebody smarter than myself could probably project out the impact of the last 2 games on SOS if both teams win out. I think Whitewater still has Platteville left, which will not be the help to SOS that it might have been at one time.

[02 Warhawk]

That's cute that Eau Claire is better than Hamline, but if you want to have some more confidence in someone's ranking I think you've got to look to the toughest games that team has played, not the easiest.  St. John's has played and beat two teams ranked higher than any team Whitewater has played. 
Opponent rankings:
1) St. Thomas
2) Bethel
3) Oshkosh
4) LaCrosse
5) Thomas More

Rankings have nothing to do with any of this.

Certainly not the top 25, but the Regional Rankings might, which have #1 and #2 swapped but otherwise are the same as above. Although I'm not clear that the committee criterion really evaluates relative strength of RRO wins/losses (I assume they do) or how that is balanced with SOS and other factors (including the most important one: defensive yardage and YPC allowed in your top rivalry games).

Yes, looking at it that way, you're right. I'm not sure either.

SOS has to play a major part in their decision. That's the only thing that can't be disputed that makes sense.

Yeah, SOS is the easiest conclusion. Honestly, it's a tough choice and I don't think you can go wrong either way. We know that prior year playoff performance is a factor in certain situations, but I don't know if that even comes into play here. If it does, SJU with a 1st round loss vs Whitewater not in the playoffs really isn't a big difference. Somebody smarter than myself could probably project out the impact of the last 2 games on SOS if both teams win out. I think Whitewater still has Platteville left, which will not be the help to SOS that it might have been at one time.

MIAC fans flooding the WIAC thread the past couple of days suggest otherwise. Apparently there's one correct choice and the committee didn't make it.

[jamtod]

That's cute that Eau Claire is better than Hamline, but if you want to have some more confidence in someone's ranking I think you've got to look to the toughest games that team has played, not the easiest.  St. John's has played and beat two teams ranked higher than any team Whitewater has played. 
Opponent rankings:
1) St. Thomas
2) Bethel
3) Oshkosh
4) LaCrosse
5) Thomas More

Rankings have nothing to do with any of this.

Certainly not the top 25, but the Regional Rankings might, which have #1 and #2 swapped but otherwise are the same as above. Although I'm not clear that the committee criterion really evaluates relative strength of RRO wins/losses (I assume they do) or how that is balanced with SOS and other factors (including the most important one: defensive yardage and YPC allowed in your top rivalry games).

Yes, looking at it that way, you're right. I'm not sure either.

SOS has to play a major part in their decision. That's the only thing that can't be disputed that makes sense.

Yeah, SOS is the easiest conclusion. Honestly, it's a tough choice and I don't think you can go wrong either way. We know that prior year playoff performance is a factor in certain situations, but I don't know if that even comes into play here. If it does, SJU with a 1st round loss vs Whitewater not in the playoffs really isn't a big difference. Somebody smarter than myself could probably project out the impact of the last 2 games on SOS if both teams win out. I think Whitewater still has Platteville left, which will not be the help to SOS that it might have been at one time.

MIAC fans flooding the WIAC thread the past couple of days suggest otherwise. Apparently there's one correct choice and the committee didn't make it.

I've got no dog in that particular fight. I love a good argument and the MIAC board is getting a bit soft this week with the Tommies and the Johnnies piling on Hamline. I'm just here to point out how dumb it is to overemphasize the 600 yards and 8 YPC thing. And to enjoy seeing the Johnnies get worked up.

[AO]

That's cute that Eau Claire is better than Hamline, but if you want to have some more confidence in someone's ranking I think you've got to look to the toughest games that team has played, not the easiest.  St. John's has played and beat two teams ranked higher than any team Whitewater has played. 
Opponent rankings:
1) St. Thomas
2) Bethel
3) Oshkosh
4) LaCrosse
5) Thomas More

Rankings have nothing to do with any of this.

To be clear, those were my personal rankings.

So "St. John's has played and beat two teams ranked higher than any team Whitewater has played" according to your personal rankings?

How convenient for your argument 

I think the only difference between my rankings and the committee rankings would be a swap of Bethel and St. Thomas since Bethel currently has the higher SoS.  I think it's pretty clear they took the easy way out and just looked at Whitewater's higher SoS. 

Certainly not the top 25, but the Regional Rankings might, which have #1 and #2 swapped but otherwise are the same as above. Although I'm not clear that the committee criterion really evaluates relative strength of RRO wins/losses (I assume they do) or how that is balanced with SOS and other factors (including the most important one: defensive yardage and YPC allowed in your top rivalry games).

The committee in the past has absolutely used the "results against RRO" to evaluate those games in-depth beyond who won and who lost.  Former committee chairs have said they look at how highly ranked the RRO is and what the score was.

[Pat Coleman]

So has the current chair -- although "how high the score was" isn't really the measurement, I don't think. More like "what kind of game it was." I don't think there's a big push for high scores.

[emma17]

I may be misinterpreting AO and Pat, it seems they are both saying the committee has in the past looked at RRO games "in-depth" and "what kind of games they were."
What sort of info are they looking at?

[MiacMan]

Obviously, the committee is going to do what it does but, this little debate, between who gets the No.1 seed is somewhat significant because the no.2 west region team will more than likely be the one that gets to host UST the week before. If nothing else, UST is very physical which will add to the health risk and fatigue to either team if they do get by that game.

[DuffMan]

Someone's counting his chickens...

[jamtod]

Someone's counting his chickens...

Right? This whole conversation is moot when St John's loses to Thomas More.

[02 Warhawk]

Someone's counting his chickens...

Right? This whole conversation is moot when St John's loses to Thomas More.

Huh?!? They end the season with a non-conference game?

Odd

[Pat Coleman]

Yes -- nine teams in the MIAC so someone has a Week 11 bye and Thomas More had lots and lots of open dates this year, so I was glad to see SJU willing to play on that week and take its bye in Week 2.

[DuffMan]

I'd much rather see SJU play Tom More than beat CSS 98-0! 

[MiacMan]

Someone's counting his chickens...

Right? This whole conversation is moot when St John's loses to Thomas More.

JTT, Thanks for the D

Duff, Kind of have to or we're (UST) out of the conversation. However I do believe UST is pretty good and don't think they will lay another egg for a while anyway. (hopefully not at all)

[emma17]

UWW is not ranked ahead of St. John's because of one or two team stats from one single game.  Stop it.

It's all about influence.
You're a member of the committee. You have two teams obviously in the running for the #1 spot. You know the regional rankings will influence the final national seedings. Thus, a responsible committee member would do what- Use less data or more data in making the decision? We all know there is a subjective component that enters in. Wally, I know you're a data guy. I cannot imagine you would intentionally ignore in-depth game analysis between RR opponents- especially when you realize the results of this regional ranking may greatly influence the #1 seed decision.

Let me ask another way- would you be disappointed if the committee publicly stated they didn't consider the details of such a high profile/rank impactful game between regionally ranked opponents?
I would be disgusted if they didn't.
And let's assume they did look into it- what would they see?
Yes, an incredible- and highly unusual offensive performance by St. John's.
They'd see individual records being set- which by definition are rare.
They'd see five interceptions- which to any reasonable person (ww), would be recognized as highly unusual and not likely repeatable- even if Dion Sanders was in uniform.
They'd see gobs of yardage given up, and I mean gobs.
And, they'd know this incredibly unexpected offensive performance occurred the same week the team's legendary coach passed away.
IMO opinion and perhaps only my opinion, the committee owes it to the student-athletes and the programs to utilize as much data as they can when setting these rankings- and especially the rankings that will impact the final four seeds.

Now- all that said, I'm not a believer that home field is much a factor in the outcome- see UWW 2010.  It is the university, fans and community that really feel the impact.

May the best team win.

[DuffMan]

So, I guess it took Divine intervention for SJU to beat U$T rather than a sound game plan and guys playing their asses off. 

If that's the case, pencil SJU in as 2018 National Champs because John certainly isn't going to let us down!