FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[DuffMan]

I agree with Emma's assessment.

[BDB]

I agree with Emma's assessment.

I would agree, but not teams 1-5. Make it 1-6 and I'm on board.

[hazzben]

Yeah, the WIAC's rep as top league is more than safe. They have depth that no other conference comes even close to. The early exit is as much about the WIAC not having an elite team recently as it is about a still fairly regionalized bracket. NPI is a limited metric, so you had some odd matchups of really good teams early, that were also convenient due to proximity. As long as you have so many quality MIAC, WIAC, CCIW, and ARC teams in close proximity some really good teams are going to go home earlier than they might in another quad.

Regarding UWL and being dirty. My family has had playoff matchups against UWL and the WIAC more broadly dating back to the NAIA/80's teams as players and coaches. UWL does seem unique. UWSP, UWEC, and UWW were all great opponents and physical playoff games, but it ended there. Same could be said for regular season matchups with UWSt and UWP. UWL across 45+ years of evidence, from fans, to coaches, to players are just on the cheap end of the spectrum. From WR's in the 80's who couldn't walk on Sunday because of how swollen their balls were from bottom of pile punches to stuff similar to what was described in Collegeville, the rep has been earned. At this point it's hard to imagine how it isn't an institutional/program thing.

[OzJohnnie]

From WR's in the 80's who couldn't walk on Sunday because of how swollen their balls were from bottom of pile punches to stuff similar to what was described in Collegeville, the rep has been earned.

This practice is so common in Australian rugby that it has developed a name.  Squirrel gripping.  The South Africans are seemingly paid a bonus per squeeze.

All's fair at the bottom of a rugby scrum, but it's justification for an instant brawl in Aussie Rules football.

[OzJohnnie]

There is a blurry line between gamesmanship and bad sportsmanship.  It's sort of a "you know it when you see it" situation.

I obviously think bad sportsmanship is wrong and shouldn't happen, but cheap shots, squirrel grips and spitting take energy and focus away from winning. A team that rides the poor sportsmanship vibe eventually gets its comeuppance, frequently finding itself doomed to a life of mediocrity, having forgotten how to play as winners.  We have examples the MIAC (some no longer with us) as well as our current topic in the WIAC.

My favourite example of this truism is the 2004 Line In The Sand game between Essendon and Hawthorn.  Essendon had been playing cheap against the Hawks for well over ten years and eventually it boiled over.  The Hawks would take no more.  Hawthorn lost that game but since that season, Essendon has not won a single post-season game and have an 0-6 record in the last 20 years.  Hawthorn, on the other hand, have won four Premierships and have an 18-10 post-season record.

The infamous 2004 Line in the Sand highlights:

https://youtu.be/xLiR4faNtAI?si=jybokJoVvBTI77dP

[DustySJU]

Does UWL have a reputation as a dirty team? Lots of post play activity. SJU coach said the UWL players were chirping before the game started. Johnnie players said they were the dirtiest team they've played, including spitting at them. Fortunately Johnnies did not take the bait.

Let me answer the part of your question dealing with today first; the play between the whistles seemed to be actually clean with the exception of the late hit way out of bounds that wasn't called on the LX sideline and then the near fight where a DL took a couple cheap shots at an SJU olineman...with no call.

The officials did a horrible job establishing a sense of order from pregame, where LX players and coaches were chirping and $hit talking all SJU players and coaches..halftime, where they did the same thing. And after the game wanted to continue......the lack of any team leadership from LX staff or players was frankly embarrassing coming from a program that believes themselves to be in the national elite.  I believe LX currently suffers from a touch of inferiority complex in relation to their conference big brother WW.  They want to be relevant so badly, which they haven't been for close to 30 years.

The heat between SJU and LX dates to 1991 and none of the matchups since would resemble church group basketball......

Thanks for the breakdown Redtooth, observing the game I was wondering what the hell was going on with the refs Saturday.  It seemed out of control before the ball was ever kicked. 

One of my favorite ball coachs Mike Leach would say "You're either coaching it, or you're allowing it".

JohnnieUp Everybody

[WIACer]

I agree we can put the best conf to bed for this year. It is one of the top conf every year. My only gripe.  The NCAA Div 3 playoffs is sort of a joke. Look at the pairing and ask yourself, where does it make sense? It's not about rewarding your hard work during the season. UWP played the top 10 teams throughout the year. Is Lake Forest the  #2 seed? Who did they play? Let's face it. Private schools run the tournament and they are going to look out for their teams. WIAC will always given the tougher road. You will need to beat the NCAA committee, the bias, and your conference. It is what it is.

[DustySJU]

I agree we can put the best conf to bed for this year. It is one of the top conf every year. My only gripe.  The NCAA Div 3 playoffs is sort of a joke. Look at the pairing and ask yourself, where does it make sense? It's not about rewarding your hard work during the season. UWP played the top 10 teams throughout the year. Is Lake Forest the  #2 seed? Who did they play? Let's face it. Private schools run the tournament and they are going to look out for their teams. WIAC will always given the tougher road. You will need to beat the NCAA committee, the bias, and your conference. It is what it is.

Now that I know SJU runs the tournament selection process I feel much better

[hazzben]

I agree we can put the best conf to bed for this year. It is one of the top conf every year. My only gripe.  The NCAA Div 3 playoffs is sort of a joke. Look at the pairing and ask yourself, where does it make sense? It's not about rewarding your hard work during the season. UWP played the top 10 teams throughout the year. Is Lake Forest the  #2 seed? Who did they play? Let's face it. Private schools run the tournament and they are going to look out for their teams. WIAC will always given the tougher road. You will need to beat the NCAA committee, the bias, and your conference. It is what it is.

It has nothing to do with a private school bias (Cortland is a state school with a 1 seed), and everything to do with NPI and budget. We got a bigger field and more flights, but not unlimited flights. NPI is far from perfect and in its current iteration it's too heavily weighted towards Win % than it is SOS. That can be adjusted in another year. In the old system UWL probably doesn't even make the field.

[SagatagSam]

Thanks for the breakdown Redtooth, observing the game I was wondering what the hell was going on with the refs Saturday.  It seemed out of control before the ball was ever kicked. 

One of my favorite ball coachs Mike Leach would say "You're either coaching it, or you're allowing it".

JohnnieUp Everybody

I've had games get away from me as a high school official. The best crews I have been on all take care of this stuff early.

The line we use on the officials side is: "What we permit we promote."

[WIACer]

I agree we can put the best conf to bed for this year. It is one of the top conf every year. My only gripe.  The NCAA Div 3 playoffs is sort of a joke. Look at the pairing and ask yourself, where does it make sense? It's not about rewarding your hard work during the season. UWP played the top 10 teams throughout the year. Is Lake Forest the  #2 seed? Who did they play? Let's face it. Private schools run the tournament and they are going to look out for their teams. WIAC will always given the tougher road. You will need to beat the NCAA committee, the bias, and your conference. It is what it is.

It has nothing to do with a private school bias (Cortland is a state school with a 1 seed), and everything to do with NPI and budget. We got a bigger field and more flights, but not unlimited flights. NPI is far from perfect and in its current iteration it's too heavily weighted towards Win % than it is SOS. That can be adjusted in another year. In the old system UWL probably doesn't even make the field.

I agree we can put the best conf to bed for this year. It is one of the top conf every year. My only gripe.  The NCAA Div 3 playoffs is sort of a joke. Look at the pairing and ask yourself, where does it make sense? It's not about rewarding your hard work during the season. UWP played the top 10 teams throughout the year. Is Lake Forest the  #2 seed? Who did they play? Let's face it. Private schools run the tournament and they are going to look out for their teams. WIAC will always given the tougher road. You will need to beat the NCAA committee, the bias, and your conference. It is what it is.

It has nothing to do with a private school bias (Cortland is a state school with a 1 seed), and everything to do with NPI and budget. We got a bigger field and more flights, but not unlimited flights. NPI is far from perfect and in its current iteration it's too heavily weighted towards Win % than it is SOS. That can be adjusted in another year. In the old system UWL probably doesn't even make the field.

I agree we can put the best conf to bed for this year. It is one of the top conf every year. My only gripe.  The NCAA Div 3 playoffs is sort of a joke. Look at the pairing and ask yourself, where does it make sense? It's not about rewarding your hard work during the season. UWP played the top 10 teams throughout the year. Is Lake Forest the  #2 seed? Who did they play? Let's face it. Private schools run the tournament and they are going to look out for their teams. WIAC will always given the tougher road. You will need to beat the NCAA committee, the bias, and your conference. It is what it is.

It has nothing to do with a private school bias (Cortland is a state school with a 1 seed), and everything to do with NPI and budget. We got a bigger field and more flights, but not unlimited flights. NPI is far from perfect and in its current iteration it's too heavily weighted towards Win % than it is SOS. That can be adjusted in another year. In the old system UWL probably doesn't even make the field.

Exactly, that's why I said it was sort of a joke. NPI is not perfect. Play a weak schedule, don't lose games you shouldn't, get in playoffs. Punishes teams with harder conferences, larger conferences and who play better teams than average every week. Even if LAX doesn't make it. Maybe Bethel doesn't make it. There are plenty of teams that don't belong in the playoffs. Northwestern, but they win their conf.  Committee members are made up of mostly private representatives. Of course, there are more of them. To their core, they believe we are a D2 league, forever. But once you pick the teams and they are in. Rank them accordingly. Even if the system is screwed up. Again, Lake Forest played who? Did they play a top school?  UWP doesn't get a home game? They still may have lost, or maybe they are playing Bethel, Lake Forest? 

[AO]

You don't need home games or easy games to win in the playoffs. The top 4 teams in the country find a way to win games in the tournament.

[hazzben]

We've got a 40 team playoff. It's not perfect (and never will be), but it's far from a joke. UWL got maybe the easiest game of the first round. UWP got a bye. They also could have sent UWL to 2 seed NCC or given them the HS/UMHB treatment and put UWL/UWP as a second round game matchup. 2 loss PLU didn't bemoan their draw in 99, they went on the road and won it all. Great teams find ways to win, regardless of weather, home/away, etc.

[repete]

Says the guy whose team got to play the tournament's most laughable No. 2 seed. 😁

Seriously, though, I thought I read somewhere that the dials were set closer to the needs of the non-power leagues. I have no idea if that is true, but if next year's field is similar, there needs to be some adjustment.

[kubiack78]

I agree we can put the best conf to bed for this year. It is one of the top conf every year. My only gripe.  The NCAA Div 3 playoffs is sort of a joke. Look at the pairing and ask yourself, where does it make sense? It's not about rewarding your hard work during the season. UWP played the top 10 teams throughout the year. Is Lake Forest the  #2 seed? Who did they play? Let's face it. Private schools run the tournament and they are going to look out for their teams. WIAC will always given the tougher road. You will need to beat the NCAA committee, the bias, and your conference. It is what it is.

It has nothing to do with a private school bias (Cortland is a state school with a 1 seed), and everything to do with NPI and budget. We got a bigger field and more flights, but not unlimited flights. NPI is far from perfect and in its current iteration it's too heavily weighted towards Win % than it is SOS. That can be adjusted in another year. In the old system UWL probably doesn't even make the field.

Back in the day there's a lot of teams that wouldn't make the field since there was only 16 that made it. You basically better win your conference are you ain't getting in.