FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[footballfan413]

Raider 68 and 413-
In a round about way you are supporting my point.  
68 you say "For Mount had Nate Kmic and Greg Micheli, Not NFL, but top players and UWW had J. Beaver and L. Coppage".  

413 you say "Their dominant line play year after year?  And let's not forget that in 07, the Hawks DEFENSE made Garcon a non-factor in that game."

Right, they were all excellent DIII football players (Micheli was my personal favorite).  But they weren't NFL caliber, and therefore, OUR excellent DIII players could match up with their excellent DIII players.  
It's when you add a player that has the talent of a Garcon to the mix that you create an imbalance to the DIII vs DIII match-up.
413-I love ya kid, but I remember the 2005 and 2006 Mt Union teams very well.  They were excellent teams, and they had an excellent line that blocked for an excellent DIII running back in Nate Kmick.  HOWEVER, whether the o-line was great or just good had NO bearing whatsoever on Pierre's game breaking touchdowns.  He made those plays mostly on his own.  In comparison, Kmick ran through a hole outside (created by a great O-line as Levell ran through a hole inside on 3rd and 6 last year created by a great O-line) and he was off to the races down the sideline.  Mr. Garcon did things with the football in those Stagg Bowls that were completely individual ability- ability above and beyond that of the typical excellent DIII player.  

I will go back to my question about removing a UWW player in exchange for removing Garcon and then Shorts.
In 2005, 2006 and 2007- I assume you remove Beaver from UWW.  His loss would hurt no doubt, but in comparison to Mt losing Garcon?  There is no "backup sitting on the bench" that can come close to doing what Garcon does- otherwise he'd be on the field.  In 2008, 2009 and 2010- I assume you remove Coppage from UWW.  His loss would hurt, but come on- think this one through folks.  UWW had 3 running backs that could start on nearly every team in the country- Coppage just happened to be the best of them.  Mt losing Shorts in exchange for UWW losing Coppage- I'll take UWW every day of the week.  

I love you too, Buddy and I understand what you are saying but, we're talking forest and you are talking trees, IMHO.  You can separate out the last 6 years and dissect the teams/players/talent level anyway you want to but UMU has been winning championships under Coach K since the 90's and he did it without an NFL caliber player on most of those teams.   You are right, Garcon kicked our butts in 05 and 06!  The DEFENSE did not have an answer for him but in 07..........the boys shut him down mainly by putting big time pressure on Micheli. It is a team sport after all and NFL caliber or not, you can't make plays if your QB has to pull it down and run for his life.  UMU is not a one-trick pony show and never has been even if that pony is NFL bound.   "Past behavior is the prime indicator of future behavior," so until I see something in their program change regarding coaching staff, win/loss record, etc, I fully expect UMU to reload and continue to be at the top of  DIII and I don't believe they need to put a player in the NFL every time anymore than we do to stay on this roll.  As we are finding out, when you play on ESPN year after year, the great ones find you and reloading becomes a given.  It is happening for us now as it has been happening for the Raiders for decades.  That is my only point. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  
  I'm just happy that the boys are back in camp, we get to gear up post patterns and I'll be going to my first football game of the 2011 season on Friday!  All is right with the world!    
        And next time I see you, 17, you better be buying me a cocktail!    

[BoBo]

Thank you.  It must be a nice place if all of those people wanted to fight over it.  I look forward to my visit.  And since you guys are making me wiser in all things Wisconsin, I've had Stevens Point beer and LaCrosse beer, do any other WIAC towns have their names on beer cans?

I guess when it comes to sewage treatment plants, the best ones are the ones you don't know are there.

No...but when you're in-town, make sure pick up some New Glarus. Preferably Spotted Cow.

That's my number one beer of choice. You can only find it in WI.

As New Glarus (makers of "Cow") say "Buy local, drink Yokel!"

[emma17]

I hate when it's so clear in my mind but I can't articulate it. My point isn't to say that Mt as a team isn't great- because they are without question. My point is simply that in the last 6 years Mt has had 2 NFL caliber playmakers- on teams loaded w many great DIII caliber players. So when comparing how other DIII teams have measured up in the past- I think you have to take into account that it is out of the ordinary. Thus, the question for me anyway is how soon will some of these other very good programs catch up when they don't have to stop both a good DIII team AND an NFL caliber playmaker?
I understand Mt did it before w/out the two, but I think teams can catch up to that.
Anyway, it was fun to discuss.
413 I'll buy you a cocktail anytime.

[02 Warhawk]

I hate when it's so clear in my mind but I can't articulate it. My point isn't to say that Mt as a team isn't great- because they are without question. My point is simply that in the last 6 years Mt has had 2 NFL caliber playmakers- on teams loaded w many great DIII caliber players. So when comparing how other DIII teams have measured up in the past- I think you have to take into account that it is out of the ordinary. Thus, the question for me anyway is how soon will some of these other very good programs catch up when they don't have to stop both a good DIII team AND an NFL caliber playmaker?
I understand Mt did it before w/out the two, but I think teams can catch up to that.
Anyway, it was fun to discuss.
413 I'll buy you a cocktail anytime.

I don't think anyone can answer that. But like I said before they didn't have "both a good DIII team AND an NFL caliber playmaker" in the 90's. Even then, we're talking about a span of 10 years, nobody was able to compete with them.

[footballfan413]

True, the Raiders do not have C. Shorts and K. Miller this fall, but they will have a "great' defense and "O" line this year. The passing game will still be good and Coach Kehres will see to it that the running games improves.
I like their chances to go real far this year with 18 starters returning!

I don't think this was ever in doubt.  

Come on now all, I respect and admire what Mt has done as much as the next guy- but why the hurry to annoint?  There is a big difference in reloading top DIII talent and reloading NFL talent on a DIII team. I could be wrong, but I have not heard of or seen the guy that keeps the Pierre-Cecil string going. You cannot overemphasize the impact those two had on defenses. Without the heir apparent, teams can now play a good DIII defender against a good DIII receiver- rather than against an NFL receiver.  
I love what Mt has done and what they represent in DIII, but I for one think a Pierre and Cecil- less offense is a whole lot more manageable defensively.

I agree with everything you've said regarding a player the caliber of Garcon/Shorts being game changers for a DEFENSE.  Maybe we were all just discussing different points, ultimately.  The question you asked in this   post toward the beginning best explains where I was coming from.  "Why the hurry to anoint?"   Correct me if I am wrong but your point seems to be that the Raiders are still just a great DIII team and without players the level of Garcon/Shorts, they are more catchable, right?   See, you are articulate.     Well, you have a point but as 02 and I and some of the others have pointed out, nobody has caught them, consistently, in the last 20 years, NFL play maker or not, with the exception  of the Warhawks.  I don't see it happening any time soon, that's all.   Especially given their decades of success, large roster numbers and JV schedule to develop their players and the way geography always works for them come play-off time.    

Sorry, 17, my husband says I always have to have the last word.  Guilty as charged.  I'll shut up now.........

[emma17]

True, the Raiders do not have C. Shorts and K. Miller this fall, but they will have a "great' defense and "O" line this year. The passing game will still be good and Coach Kehres will see to it that the running games improves.
I like their chances to go real far this year with 18 starters returning!

I don't think this was ever in doubt.  

Come on now all, I respect and admire what Mt has done as much as the next guy- but why the hurry to annoint?  There is a big difference in reloading top DIII talent and reloading NFL talent on a DIII team. I could be wrong, but I have not heard of or seen the guy that keeps the Pierre-Cecil string going. You cannot overemphasize the impact those two had on defenses. Without the heir apparent, teams can now play a good DIII defender against a good DIII receiver- rather than against an NFL receiver.  
I love what Mt has done and what they represent in DIII, but I for one think a Pierre and Cecil- less offense is a whole lot more manageable defensively.

I agree with everything you've said regarding a player the caliber of Garcon/Shorts being game changers for a DEFENSE.  Maybe we were all just discussing different points, ultimately.  The question you asked in this   post toward the beginning best explains where I was coming from.  "Why the hurry to anoint?"   Correct me if I am wrong but your point seems to be that the Raiders are still just a great DIII team and without players the level of Garcon/Shorts, they are more catchable, right?   See, you are articulate.     Well, you have a point but as 02 and I and some of the others have pointed out, nobody has caught them, consistently, in the last 20 years, NFL play maker or not, with the exception  of the Warhawks.  I don't see it happening any time soon, that's all.   Especially given their decades of success, large roster numbers and JV schedule to develop their players and the way geography always works for them come play-off time.    

Sorry, 17, my husband says I always have to have the last word.  Guilty as charged.  I'll shut up now.........

Thanks 413- you understand me, you really understand me.     
I reckon the next two years will tell us if others are catching up-(this does not count as me getting the last word).

I heard #1, Shane Covington has moved to receiver from defense.  Looks like he was highly regarded as an offensive player coming out of high school.  I saw Shane return a kickoff for a touchdown vs Oshkosh last year, he can scoot.  I'm eager to see the passing game vs Lacrosse in game one, lots of new players.   

[D O.C.]

It's the year in, year out UMU defense that grabs my attention.

[Raider 68]

It's the year in, year out UMU defense that grabs my attention.

D.O.C.

You and me both. Despite all the wins and offensive attributes over the years, the key to winning
many championships has been the defense on a consistent basis. UWW despite all the offensive stats, has like the Raiders had great defenses. 

[emma17]

It's the year in, year out UMU defense that grabs my attention.

Good point and without a doubt D is critical.  413 presented the example a couple times earlier in the 2007 Stagg.  I can't imagine UWW ever fielding a defense that played better.  I don't remember all the stats, but that 2007 Mt offense had record breaking numbers entering the game.  They were held to 21 points, probably less than half of their average as I bet they averaged over 50 points per game that year.  Holding Micheli, Kmic, Garcon and crew to 21 points is still one of the most impressive (maybe the most impressive) accomplishments to date in this run. 

[BoBo]

Thanks 413- you understand me, you really understand me.     

This gives me the haunting similarity of one Sally Field's "You like me" acceptance speech after winning an Oscar!!   

[footballfan413]

It's the year in, year out UMU defense that grabs my attention.

D.O.C.

You and me both. Despite all the wins and offensive attributes over the years, the key to winning
many championships has been the defense on a consistent basis. UWW despite all the offensive stats, has like the Raiders had great defenses. 

   DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS, BABY!!!!!   

[BoBo]

Did I read this correctly, only 2 running backs from last years roster have returned this year for UWW?  And with 1 transfer and 2 incoming freshmen, their are only 5 RB's in camp? What happened? With those with elgibility remaining, was the mass exodus due to mainly academics? Does this include fullbacks, too, like Bernie Tamsett for example? This has the potential to be a major issue. Anybody have an explanation?

[voice]

Did I read this correctly, only 2 running backs from last years roster have returned this year for UWW?  And with 1 transfer and 2 incoming freshmen, their are only 5 RB's in camp? What happened? With those with elgibility remaining, was the mass exodus due to mainly academics? Does this include fullbacks, too, like Bernie Tamsett for example? This has the potential to be a major issue. Anybody have an explanation?

Every player is looking for playing time.  When you have a Levell Coppage, Antwan Anderson or Justin Beaver in front of you, many young players get frustrated.  I believe that a couple of those young tailbacks no longer at UWW have transferred.  No confirmation yet. I'll attempt to verify.

[BoBo]

voice, will a pre-season roster be published like years past? Always nice to see who's in camp!!
Also, has the new radio partner to Gary Douglas been announced? I can't understand why no one from the station hasn't called me!!  I'm still available for hire...and I come cheap!!      

[voice]

voice, will a pre-season roster be published like years past? Always nice to see who's in camp!!
Also, has the new radio partner to Gary Douglas been announced? I can't understand why no one from the station hasn't called me!!  I'm still available for hire...and I come cheap!!      

BoBo...

At UWW Media Day earlier this week the 2011 UW-Whitewater football preseason media guide was handed out. An on-line version is also available at http://www.uwwsports.com/custompages/football/2011/2011%20Preseason%20Media%20Guide%201.pdf