FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[BoBo]

On the contrary, I think coaches use trick plays when they DON'T have the talent to match up against a team. Because they know if they line up and run plays, in the traditional sense, they'll get burned. That's why teams like Army, Navy, etc. use a lot of triple option and misdirection plays to keep the defense guessing and off balance.

I was at West Point around 1983 (actually at USMA Prep at Ft. Monmouth, NJ - we had many football players working on their academics for a year before they went to USMA) when Coach Jim Young arrived at Army.  He wasn't a wishbone coach prior to his arrival. He had Mark Herrmann a terrific passer at Purdue and Bruce Hill before that at Arizona when he was there in the mid-70's.  But after a 2-9 season in his first year, he installed the wishbone and had great success - in fact was I think 9-3 the next two years and won 2 fruit bowls (Cherry and Peach). He also led them to a great Sun Bowl game, athough the Cadets lost, against Alabama in '88. But anyways, the reason for bringing the triple option using the 'bone was simple. He couldn't recruit size, speed, and highly talented players and he knew that (plus HS stars thinking they were headed to the NFL). But what he could recruit was disiplined, intelligent, athletic, and team orientated players. Plus, they would have non-stop motors. Running that wishbone was all about precision & repetition, things a good soldiers knows a lot about. Army's decline in the last 15 years was due in some fashion to scrapping the triple option and going to more of a spread attack - but it didn't work. Rich Ellerson, the current Army coach, brought back the triple option when he came from Cal-Poly & they're having some success. They beat Northwestern a couple weeks ago which for them is an accomplishment. Long story, short, I agree with you!! 

[emma17]

On the contrary, I think coaches use trick plays when they DON'T have the talent to match up against a team. Because they know if they line up and run plays, in the traditional sense, they'll get burned. That's why teams like Army, Navy, etc. use a lot of triple option and misdirection plays to keep the defense guessing and off balance.

I was at West Point around 1983 (actually at USMA Prep at Ft. Monmouth, NJ - we had many football players working on their academics for a year before they went to USMA) when Coach Jim Young arrived at Army.  He wasn't a wishbone coach prior to his arrival. He had Mark Herrmann a terrific passer at Purdue and Bruce Hill before that at Arizona when he was there in the mid-70's.  But after a 2-9 season in his first year, he installed the wishbone and had great success - in fact was I think 9-3 the next two years and won 2 fruit bowls (Cherry and Peach). He also led them to a great Sun Bowl game, athough the Cadets lost, against Alabama in '88. But anyways, the reason for bringing the triple option using the 'bone was simple. He couldn't recruit size, speed, and highly talented players and he knew that (plus HS stars thinking they were headed to the NFL). But what he could recruit was disiplined, intelligent, athletic, and team orientated players. Plus, they would have non-stop motors. Running that wishbone was all about precision & repetition, things a good soldiers knows a lot about. Army's decline in the last 15 years was due in some fashion to scrapping the triple option and going to more of a spread attack - but it didn't work. Rich Ellerson, the current Army coach, brought back the triple option when he came from Cal-Poly & they're having some success. They beat Northwestern a couple weeks ago which for them is an accomplishment. Long story, short, I agree with you!! 

Good stuff Bobo, thanks.  I am glad to see Army back and competing.   

[emma17]

IMO coaching staffs go to trick plays when they don't feel their offense is good enough to score the traditional way they would against other opponants....

Or conversely, I think coaching staffs go to traditional pound the rock running plays when their team is loaded with big guys but they don't have enough skilled and versatile players to run a creative offense.   

[BoBo]

^^ I think you just described a certain team in Madison (maybe except for this year with russellmania XVI at the helm!!).   

[emma17]

I'm hoping to see the Titan execute some "non traditional" offensive plays.  I think it's pretty cool when a coaching staff has the courage to actually implement a creative idea that utilizes the talent on the team- and allocate practice time to it. 

A question for the coach in you e17:

If you know your starting QB is out, do you allocate precious practice time working on "non-traditional" offensive plays preparing your back-up QB making his first collegiate start against the 2-time defending national champions?  In other words, do you use the same play book you would use with a 2 1/2 year starter as you would with a first time starter? In the Platteville game, could you determine if the play calling changed or did Cerroni change the game plan with the back-up in the game as compared to the Eau Claire game you watched with Wara playing every down (i.e run/pass ratio, types of passes thrown (side line routes, over the middle, deep balls), number of QB runs vs RB's)?

My approach has always been to recognize the talent and type of players I have and then design a system that puts them in the best possible position to capitalize on their talents- and adjust/vary the approach every single game depending on the opponent.  In the case of Oshkosh, although the #1 qb may be out, #2 has had plenty of practice time since camp opened- and remember the rest of the playmakers are not injured.  So the question that I don't have an answer for is what are the strengths of my #2?  Maybe I use the same playbook, but I simply focus on a different part of the book than I have in the past.  Maybe we'll see a short passing game attack like we saw from Franklin and Trine (that's my guess) with a little less qb running than we are used to, but still enough to keep UWW honest. In fact, I have felt that Wara was doing a little too much running.  I know he has a deep group of receivers- but he has seemed a bit fixed on running. 

In the Platteville game, I had so much "buffering" going on that I couldn't keep my attention on the second half as much- sorry because you ask a good question.     

[WarhawkDad]

IMO coaching staffs go to trick plays when they don't feel their offense is good enough to score the traditional way they would against other opponants....

Correct!  Look at how Platteville scored right before halftime against UWW. 

[02 Warhawk]

IMO coaching staffs go to trick plays when they don't feel their offense is good enough to score the traditional way they would against other opponants....

Or conversely, I think coaching staffs go to traditional pound the rock running plays when their team is loaded with big guys but they don't have enough skilled and versatile players to run a creative offense.

UWW and Mount has had some skilled players over the years with a big line....but stayed away from the "creative offense."

[WarhawkDad]

If Central somehow becomes IIAC champs this year, that will look great on Oshkosh's resume to the selection committee. Of course that's IF they lose this Saturday, and finish out the season 8-2.

That means UWO would have played against THREE conference champs this year. I say they're in if that happens.

Lots of "if's" though

02, good catch.  I had not factored in the Central potential of being Conference Champs.   That could help.  But the reality is that if UWO looses to UWW, then UWO would have lost to two Conference Champs.  It still makes a big statement about their strength of schedule.

WarhawkDad

[ncc58]

IMO coaching staffs go to trick plays when they don't feel their offense is good enough to score the traditional way they would against other opponants....

Correct!  Look at how Platteville scored right before halftime against UWW.

And remember how well that UWW reacted on that trick play. You also use trick plays when a defense is overly aggressive and overcommitting. The DBs bit on the run fake and the RB made a nice pass.

[WarhawkDad]

IMO coaching staffs go to trick plays when they don't feel their offense is good enough to score the traditional way they would against other opponants....

Correct!  Look at how Platteville scored right before halftime against UWW.

And remember how well that UWW reacted on that trick play. You also use trick plays when a defense is overly aggressive and overcommitting. The DBs bit on the run fake and the RB made a nice pass.

Damn....good point!  LOL   

[skunks_sidekick]

Wara "healthy" = UWW by 3 touchdowns

Wara not playing = UWW by 5 touchdowns

Raider 68 likes to give the opposition the utmost respect, almost to the point of over-valuating their abilities.  If UWO makes it a game, it means that UWW is having a bad, turnover laden, football game.

If that's Raider 68's MO, than I'd argue your MO tends in the total opposite direction. From what I've seen the last 6 years or so, you give Mount's opponents little respect. I understand being confident, and UWW and Mount have plenty to be confident about! But sometimes I get the feeling you expect each team to bow at the Mount altar before taking the field. 

I based my opinion regarding the UWW vs. UWO game on the following two things.

1.  Mount played what I would consider a solid "B" game against UWO, and was not challenged in the second half.
2.  I think UWW is better overall than Mount.

Based on that input, I make UWW a 3-5 touchdown favorite. 

As for giving opponents respect, I don't agree with you, but of course everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Let's take your favorite team for instance.  I am sure you feel I never gave Bethel respect the two times Mount played them in the play-offs.  I will say that may even be true, because quite honestly a team that can't throw the ball, and doesn't have a kicker, is not going to challenge Mount in a play-off game. 

I have given respect to UWW's teams over these past six years, especially the last two or three.  They have earned that respect by consistently matching Mount in the Stagg Bowl, and beating them the last 3 out of 4 (the BASTAGES!).   

[oshfb]

I think it's pretty cool when a coaching staff has the courage to actually implement a creative idea that utilizes the talent on the team- and allocate practice time to it. 

On the contrary, I think coaches use trick plays when they DON'T have the talent to match up against a team. Because they know if they line up and run plays, in the traditional sense, they'll get burned. Th

So what say you to the Halfback option pass from Montee Ball to Russell Wilson on Saturday against Indiana? Was that gimmick play used because Madison didn't have the talent to match up against Indiana? I know I was shocked

Also, I think a multitude of examples could also be taken from Boise States play calling in bowl games in recent years.

To be honest, I'm not a fan of trick/gadget plays either (we most definitely didn't run them while I played) but there is a time and place for them and if used appropriately, can make the difference between a W and a L.

UWW defense has always been very disciplined and if that is the case again this week the gadget play won't affect the outcome. If not disciplined, well here's hoping 

[thrunt01]

I'm new to the board here folks and I must say I am not surprised about the abundance of Warhawk fans on here.  The main discussion seems to be centering around the UWO v UWW game this week. Here's my 2 cents.  Whether or not Wara is able to go will greatly change the style of offense the Titans run.  UWO has adapted a flexbone or Wing T or whatever you want to call it, triple-option/veer offense to establish some sort of running game.  Back-up QB Nick Olla ran that system in high school and is most familiar with it, that's not to say the guy catch pitch it around a little bit but needless to say he's no Nate Wara.  Oshkosh's defense is playing the best it's played since 2008.  It completely shut down UWP but struggled against Joel Sweeney in the 1st half against UWEC.  So they'll probably struggle to stop Coppage, but who doesn't.  While I have not seen nearly the amount of trick plays this season from UWO the use of 2 completely different offenses kind of replaces that portion of the UWO attack. All that being said UWW has great players all around the field and should win the ball game.  This game is probably a 17 point win for UWW with a healthy Wara and a 24 point win without him.  The idea to me that UWW will win by 5 touchdowns is a little over the top.  Anything 2 TDs or closer to me is a statement by UWO.

[badgerwarhawk]

Welcome, hope to see you hang around. 

Personally I think this weekend's game with UW-O could be a very close affair.  They're playing really well and have all the motivation in the world.  Not that we're playing badly and/or are unmotivated because that isn't the case.  It's that law of averages thing that causes me to worry.  But then I do that every Saturday so nothing new on that front. 

[02 Warhawk]

I think it's pretty cool when a coaching staff has the courage to actually implement a creative idea that utilizes the talent on the team- and allocate practice time to it. 

On the contrary, I think coaches use trick plays when they DON'T have the talent to match up against a team. Because they know if they line up and run plays, in the traditional sense, they'll get burned. Th

So what say you to the Halfback option pass from Montee Ball to Russell Wilson on Saturday against Indiana? Was that gimmick play used because Madison didn't have the talent to match up against Indiana? I know I was shocked

Also, I think a multitude of examples could also be taken from Boise States play calling in bowl games in recent years.

To be honest, I'm not a fan of trick/gadget plays either (we most definitely didn't run them while I played) but there is a time and place for them and if used appropriately, can make the difference between a W and a L.

UWW defense has always been very disciplined and if that is the case again this week the gadget play won't affect the outcome. If not disciplined, well here's hoping 

Good point about Boise State using their trick plays. Then again they didn't have the talent to conventionally beat Oklahoma a few years back, so they relied on trick plays to come back and win that game. What a great game that was though.