FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[BoBo]

 Blugold 87.9FM, D3football.com thinks highly enough of the WIAC to select it as the #1 conference in the D3 world, so the Rodney Dangerfield comment really doesn't apply. I don't think there's some underworld, sinister plot to destroy the WIAC in the polls. If the teams perform, they will be rewarded because it is well known and accepted that the WIAC is a strong conference from top to bottom.

I'm a grad of a WIAC not called UWW, but lived for a considerable time growing up in Whitewater rooting for the Warhawks when their mascot was an Indian. I have no leanings or soft spot for the MIAC or any other conference. If WW gets knocked off in any of the remaining 3 games, looking at who they play and their season records, I don't see that team making it into the top 25 just for beating WW because their season record doesn't support it (IMO). They will probably be part of the "Others Receiving Votes," but that's about it.

Two-loss teams haven't had much success getting Pool C bids - but Oshkosh losing to the top 2 teams and no one else brings things to a skidding halt. Since there is no precedence for this sort of thing, what the selection committee might do is open to debate. They sometimes do some surprising....stuff!!

[BoBo]

fballfan, you don't find it just a bit curious that a team with a lot of positive potential and talent that Oshkosh has, has probably the worst attendance in the conference? Or why a city the size of Oshkosh or the surrounding area doesn't support these events? What does turn your crank then?

[bulk19]

The only football team that matters to most people in the Fox Valley is the Packers... 

But the coverage by the tv stations that cover the Oshkosh area are from Green Bay; they primarily focus on the Pack, and Oshkosh loses out...

[Blugold 89.7FM]

I think it's because they exist in a larger television/media market.  GB TV covers St Norbert more than Oshkosh.  And all the d3 programs live in the shadow of the Packers coverage.  where as LaCrosse , Eau Claire, Stout and Point get regular coverage and radio coverage and Lots of ink on the old-fashioned press and in the web sites.  Oshkosh doesn't get that kind of coverage.  That coverage is like advertising.  LAX is making the home games a big family event.  I met folks there and they say it's a great way to spend the day. and for Rhodes of us who love D 3 football it's hard to understand why folks don't take advantage of a fun afternoon in the stands.

[bleedpurple]

Blugold 87.9FM, D3football.com thinks highly enough of the WIAC to select it as the #1 conference in the D3 world, so the Rodney Dangerfield comment really doesn't apply. I don't think there's some underworld, sinister plot to destroy the WIAC in the polls. If the teams perform, they will be rewarded because it is well known and accepted that the WIAC is a strong conference from top to bottom.

I'm a grad of a WIAC not called UWW, but lived for a considerable time growing up in Whitewater rooting for the Warhawks when their mascot was an Indian. I have no leanings or soft spot for the MIAC or any other conference. If WW gets knocked off in any of the remaining 3 games, looking at who they play and their season records, I don't see that team making it into the top 25 just for beating WW because their season record doesn't support it (IMO). They will probably be part of the "Others Receiving Votes," but that's about it.

Two-loss teams haven't had much success getting Pool C bids - but Oshkosh losing to the top 2 teams and no one else brings things to a skidding halt. Since there is no precedence for this sort of thing, what the selection committee might do is open to debate. They sometimes do some surprising....stuff!!

Disagreeing with him is one thing, but now you are messing with his marketing plan!

I actually don't happen to believe there is an anti-WIAC bias out there, but I can understand Blugold's frustration.  I think part of the puzzle piece in filling out "Top 25 ballots" is determining what criteria to use in ranking the teams.  Obviously in ranking teams, the top criteria has to be wins and losses.  The WIAC beating each other up is by far the biggest problem.

However....

And I can't say I can prove this assertion, but I do have a belief that the middle to upper teams in the WIAC would win their share of games against Top 25 teams.  And I think this is the heart of Blugold's point (although he is more than capable of expressing it himself).  When you see a team like Thomas More at #8 in the country, And you see they lost their playoff game last year to UMHB 69 to 7, you have to wonder a bit.  UMHB is a fine team and would likely be the #2 or #3 team in the WIAC each year. However, I think they would have to play a bunch of years before they beat ANY WIAC team 69-7.  I'm not a huge believer in comparing scores.  But 69-7 reveals quite a bit. And that is the team ranked #8 in the nation! In other words, if the Top 25 were the basis of seedings, they would be a #2 seed.

I'm not pointing this out to rip the polls or to accuse any bias. A 4-3 WIAC team simply isn't going to be in the Top 25, regardless of how good they are. I think Oshkosh got great respect by advancing in the polls after their close loss on Saturday.

Now if Oshkosh wins out and does NOT make the playoffs,  I will have an issue with the selection committee (again).

[BoBo]

^^ bp, we agree...
...their is no WIAC-bias in the Top 25.
...season record doesn't support a top 25 position for EC.

I also agree that the WIAC middle to upper teams would fare quite well against most Top 25 teams.

Losing to Bethel, TN and then have Bethel lose to NCC by 70 doesn't help the Blugolds case, either.

[WarhawkDad]

Look, let's all be honest......as soon as deer season starts in Wisconsin, attendance at all WIAC games will go down.  Not even UWW fairs well from a fan standpoint once the blaze orange comes into season.  All of us should be happy with the level of competition within our conference and the national respect our conference receives.

Sometimes I think we all get to caught up in our own rhetoric to much to realize how good we have it as a conference to be able to have the level of competition that we do.  Look at Frankln, since UWW beat them they have convincingly gone undefeated.  Do you really think that prepares them for the playoffs?   

Hats off to Oshkosh and to all WIAC schools for making almost every week a challenge in the WIAC and making sure our Conference Champ is truly ready to face a challenge In the playoffs. 

WarhawkDad

[OshDude]

I mentioned earlier that I thought the attendance figure was light.  However after seeing this picture I'm not so sure.  There is an awful lot of empty space on the ends and the top.   It looks like you could take that crowd, move them together and perhaps fill a little more than half of the stadium.  Regardless it was an enthusiastic crowd.

Hey, here comes another UWO attendance post! Anyway, that photo must have been taken early because there are not many people near me in the upper right. There were 100s surrounding me in the second half. Late arrivals. I asked.

And I'm assuming it was paid attendance that was published in the box score because I entered using my student ID and no one counted my entrance. So, that 3,800 or so is probably not counting any UWO students. There were a lot of those, if that's the case. My guess as I panned the crowd in the second half was in the neighborhood of 5,000-5,500, but I'm no expert.

[bleedpurple]

^^ bp, we agree...
...their is no WIAC-bias in the Top 25.
...season record doesn't support a top 25 position for EC.

I also agree that the WIAC middle to upper teams would fare quite well against most Top 25 teams.

Losing to Bethel, TN and then have Bethel lose to NCC by 70 doesn't help the Blugolds case, either.

Yes, we do agree.  I would think that would pretty much settle it then for the rest of the board. 

[warhawkguard]

I mentioned earlier that I thought the attendance figure was light.  However after seeing this picture I'm not so sure.  There is an awful lot of empty space on the ends and the top.   It looks like you could take that crowd, move them together and perhaps fill a little more than half of the stadium.  Regardless it was an enthusiastic crowd.

Hey, here comes another UWO attendance post! Anyway, that photo must have been taken early because there are not many people near me in the upper right. There were 100s surrounding me in the second half. Late arrivals. I asked.

And I'm assuming it was paid attendance that was published in the box score because I entered using my student ID and no one counted my entrance. So, that 3,800 or so is probably not counting any UWO students. There were a lot of those, if that's the case. My guess as I panned the crowd in the second half was in the neighborhood of 5,000-5,500, but I'm no expert.

Hey Oshdude, I was also in the upper right area during the game and it was packed. This has to be right at kickoff or something as there were tons of people still trying to get in and the line was out to the street at kickoff. I had students all around me, and then we had some girls from UWW meet their Oshkosh friends right in front of us. So, we werent the ONLY UWW supporters over there at least. I say final attendance post! There were many more there than the pic showed, and the numbers only reflected paid tickets. It was a great crowd, but 40% were UWW backers I bet.

[warhawkguard]

^^ bp, we agree...
...their is no WIAC-bias in the Top 25.
...season record doesn't support a top 25 position for EC.

I also agree that the WIAC middle to upper teams would fare quite well against most Top 25 teams.

Losing to Bethel, TN and then have Bethel lose to NCC by 70 doesn't help the Blugolds case, either.

Yes, we do agree.  I would think that would pretty much settle it then for the rest of the board. 

My thinking is the currrent WIAC line up must suffer like the great SEC does. Top to bottom it will beat most other teams in the land, but the rankings suffer when they beat each other up and suddenly they have losses. Alabama beating LSU shouldn't make LSU drop to 8th in the polls, but it will. Given the chance, LSU would whup up on each team ahead of it in the polls until it would get to see Alabama again.

UWO has held up its part of the bargain. UWP and UWSP lost non-conference games that they shouldn't have lost. (Although UWSP can lose them all in my book)

Those two teams may be capable of defeating some of the playoff teams, but with their records the seedings would ensure they get a strong opponent and would struggle. As BleedPurple pointed out, some teams getting in the playoffs are not even close. Prime example of recent history is Lakeland. Great record gets you in, but as we all saw, not even close. Beating a team by 70 in the playoffs speaks volumes about the varied levels of competition in D3. But, what can you do?

For the record, you never know what the Blugolds are going to do. That is the most unpredictable team in the WIAC. Every year they pull out a stinker with a weaker team. One week they are strong, and then they fall apart. It kills their record and respect. They are so much better than that.

[kubiack78]

^^ bp, we agree...
...their is no WIAC-bias in the Top 25.
...season record doesn't support a top 25 position for EC.

I also agree that the WIAC middle to upper teams would fare quite well against most Top 25 teams.

Losing to Bethel, TN and then have Bethel lose to NCC by 70 doesn't help the Blugolds case, either.

Yes, we do agree.  I would think that would pretty much settle it then for the rest of the board. 

My thinking is the currrent WIAC line up must suffer like the great SEC does. Top to bottom it will beat most other teams in the land, but the rankings suffer when they beat each other up and suddenly they have losses. Alabama beating LSU shouldn't make LSU drop to 8th in the polls, but it will. Given the chance, LSU would whup up on each team ahead of it in the polls until it would get to see Alabama again.

UWO has held up its part of the bargain. UWP and UWSP lost non-conference games that they shouldn't have lost. (Although UWSP can lose them all in my book)

Those two teams may be capable of defeating some of the playoff teams, but with their records the seedings would ensure they get a strong opponent and would struggle. As BleedPurple pointed out, some teams getting in the playoffs are not even close. Prime example of recent history is Lakeland. Great record gets you in, but as we all saw, not even close. Beating a team by 70 in the playoffs speaks volumes about the varied levels of competition in D3. But, what can you do?

For the record, you never know what the Blugolds are going to do. That is the most unpredictable team in the WIAC. Every year they pull out a stinker with a weaker team. One week they are strong, and then they fall apart. It kills their record and respect. They are so much better than that.

So Travis did you still feel like you could strap on the pads and step out on the field while watching the game on Sat?  The last time I saw a gamw was the 2005 Wesley game with Bell, Shippee, Sterner, Hooper and JP.  That game was like a big reunion party.

[voice]

I mentioned earlier that I thought the attendance figure was light.  However after seeing this picture I'm not so sure.  There is an awful lot of empty space on the ends and the top.   It looks like you could take that crowd, move them together and perhaps fill a little more than half of the stadium.  Regardless it was an enthusiastic crowd.

Hey, here comes another UWO attendance post! Anyway, that photo must have been taken early because there are not many people near me in the upper right. There were 100s surrounding me in the second half. Late arrivals. I asked.

And I'm assuming it was paid attendance that was published in the box score because I entered using my student ID and no one counted my entrance. So, that 3,800 or so is probably not counting any UWO students. There were a lot of those, if that's the case. My guess as I panned the crowd in the second half was in the neighborhood of 5,000-5,500, but I'm no expert.

I know the guy that took the the photo. It was taken late in the first half.

[footballfan413]

^^ bp, we agree...
...their is no WIAC-bias in the Top 25.
...season record doesn't support a top 25 position for EC.

I also agree that the WIAC middle to upper teams would fare quite well against most Top 25 teams.

Losing to Bethel, TN and then have Bethel lose to NCC by 70 doesn't help the Blugolds case, either.

Yes, we do agree.  I would think that would pretty much settle it then for the rest of the board. 

My thinking is the currrent WIAC line up must suffer like the great SEC does. Top to bottom it will beat most other teams in the land, but the rankings suffer when they beat each other up and suddenly they have losses. Alabama beating LSU shouldn't make LSU drop to 8th in the polls, but it will. Given the chance, LSU would whup up on each team ahead of it in the polls until it would get to see Alabama again.

UWO has held up its part of the bargain. UWP and UWSP lost non-conference games that they shouldn't have lost. (Although UWSP can lose them all in my book)

Those two teams may be capable of defeating some of the playoff teams, but with their records the seedings would ensure they get a strong opponent and would struggle. As BleedPurple pointed out, some teams getting in the playoffs are not even close. Prime example of recent history is Lakeland. Great record gets you in, but as we all saw, not even close. Beating a team by 70 in the playoffs speaks volumes about the varied levels of competition in D3. But, what can you do?

For the record, you never know what the Blugolds are going to do. That is the most unpredictable team in the WIAC. Every year they pull out a stinker with a weaker team. One week they are strong, and then they fall apart. It kills their record and respect. They are so much better than that.

As you and BP have explained, right or wrong, the #1 criteria for the polls are the win/loss record and in the WIAC, to survive the season with 2 or less losses is a rare accomplishment. In my fan poll, I moved UWO from 18th to 11th and after the way they played my Warhawks, I wanted to move them as high as 7 over Welsey, but tried to resist an overreaction to Saturdays game.  But, heck, maybe that would have been totally justified knowing what I know, firsthand, about the strength of our conference!!!  But let's not forget that the WIAC has gotten in a 2nd team recently in 06, 07 and 08 and it's not like they tore up the brackets.  In 06, a (8-1) UWLC did beat Bethel in the first round but then had to face us so that year isn't a good example but in 07, (8-2,) UWEC won their first round but then exited in the second with a loss to, albeit, a very strong Bethel team.  Then (9-1,) UWSTP lost in the first round in 08 to Wartburg.  Just making the point that when we do get a 2nd team into the play-offs, it would help if they could make some serious noise by going past the 1st or 2nd round of the play-offs.   

With the champs from 25 conferences getting automatic bids, the downside is that, many times, a team like Lakeland makes an early exit by an embarrassing number.  Would they get smoked by a 7-3 or a 6-4, (or even lower,) WIAC team?  More often than not, I suppose but I support the idea that all that can be asked of a team is to beat the teams on their schedule.  Be the best in your league, make the play-offs. Period!  Like WD pointed out, the WIAC champ has been seriously prepared.     

[warhawkguard]

^^ bp, we agree...
...their is no WIAC-bias in the Top 25.
...season record doesn't support a top 25 position for EC.

I also agree that the WIAC middle to upper teams would fare quite well against most Top 25 teams.

Losing to Bethel, TN and then have Bethel lose to NCC by 70 doesn't help the Blugolds case, either.

Yes, we do agree.  I would think that would pretty much settle it then for the rest of the board. 

My thinking is the currrent WIAC line up must suffer like the great SEC does. Top to bottom it will beat most other teams in the land, but the rankings suffer when they beat each other up and suddenly they have losses. Alabama beating LSU shouldn't make LSU drop to 8th in the polls, but it will. Given the chance, LSU would whup up on each team ahead of it in the polls until it would get to see Alabama again.

UWO has held up its part of the bargain. UWP and UWSP lost non-conference games that they shouldn't have lost. (Although UWSP can lose them all in my book)

Those two teams may be capable of defeating some of the playoff teams, but with their records the seedings would ensure they get a strong opponent and would struggle. As BleedPurple pointed out, some teams getting in the playoffs are not even close. Prime example of recent history is Lakeland. Great record gets you in, but as we all saw, not even close. Beating a team by 70 in the playoffs speaks volumes about the varied levels of competition in D3. But, what can you do?

For the record, you never know what the Blugolds are going to do. That is the most unpredictable team in the WIAC. Every year they pull out a stinker with a weaker team. One week they are strong, and then they fall apart. It kills their record and respect. They are so much better than that.

So Travis did you still feel like you could strap on the pads and step out on the field while watching the game on Sat?  The last time I saw a gamw was the 2005 Wesley game with Bell, Shippee, Sterner, Hooper and JP.  That game was like a big reunion party.

Kris,
You don't live anywhere near here so I know it can be tough. I try to see at least one game a year in person, in between the 3 Packer Games and 1 or 2 Badger games...I'm still 260 Kris. I could at least hold my own. My speed is certainly down I bet. You still workin in the big sandbox? I was at the Wesley game that occurred after a huge snowstorm. Was that 3 years ago I think? BOOM!