FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[voice]

I agree...those fade routes in the endzone left me scratching my head.

I would agree that we got out coached, which doesn't happen often. They had the perfect play call late in the forth quarter. Oshkosh anticipated that we would blitz, and called a screen that went 40 yards down to our 10 (I think). Of course, a few plays later they scored that put the game out of reach.

That screen was a great call by Cerroni.

That was a fantastic call.  Remember when UWW struggled to run against Buffalo State due to all the "inside run blitzes"?  Do you think a screen pass might have done some damage? A tight end quick pass?

That UWO play was made possible because the UWW D had to play more aggressively to dig us out of a hole.  It was a 33 yard punt from Kindler from the UWW 6 yard line that caused part of the problem.  Did someone say Kindler?  This year, as both the fieldgoal kicker and punter, he is hitting 60% of his kicks and missed critical kicks against Buffalo State and maybe UWO.  Last year, he hit 70% of his kicks- as purely the fieldgoal kicker. 
Lest I be accused of attacking Kindler, the point here is coaching decisions that make you scratch your head.  I totally support Kindler as the fieldgoal kicker, but not both.  On the next UWW possession, UWW punted from their own 20- only this time they brought in the 'back up" that we've heard all season has a tremendous leg but needed "football" experience.  Gardener came in and boomed a 54-yarder to the UWO 26.  For what reason is Kindler punting?     

Emma...

In regard to Kindler, he tied Jeff Scheber's school record of 21 field goals last year.

As far as Eric's punting is concerned... his stats on Saturday vs: Oshkosh - 6 punts for a 41.7 yard average with a long of 50 yds. Only 1 of his six punts was returned for NO yards. Kindler's season average is 41.8 yds (28 punts with only 8 punts returned.)

The complete picture:
Kindler Fieldgoal % in 2011- 70%
Kindler Fieldgoal % in 2012- 60%

Punting:
Kindler: 28 punts, averaging 41.75 yards with 3 over 50 yards.
Gardener: 12 punts, averaging 42.67 yards with 4 over 50 yards.

Again, the question is, why is Kindler punting this year?

Maybe because the Aussie outkicks the coverage? Remember he's just learning the game.  I don't know.  I'm certainly not an expert on the subject.  Obviously Emma 17 is

[hazzben]

413 I agree entirely with you that yesterday's loss was not the fault of any single player and I'm glad you pointed that out.  As the wound is still fresh I'm sure there will be more discussion as to what went wrong.

I do want to add this though-(as a separate post and not in response to yours).  As much as it is appropriate to recongize how hard it must be for Lee Brekke and for Lee's family, I think we are remiss if we don't also recognize that there are 99 other kids on the team, all of whom came to UWW to win playoff games.  I imagine all of them expect that the best players will play.  And all of them have seen many subsititions this year at basically every position, partly because the coaching staff wants to find out who can play.  The one position that wasn't changed was QB- until it was too late.  All of the players had their hopes crushed yesterday, not just Lee Brekke.  This isn't a knock on Lee, he did the best he could- but his pain in losing a starting job should pale in comparison to the pain the players feel if they weren't put in the best position to succeed.   

I'm responding to Emma's post because he's used to it  , but I'm really addressing the reaction I've been reading from UW-W fans as a whole.

I think we are all missing the boat here. The one we should blame is Behrendt.  You read HSCoach's post. LK was able to make the change during camp because the talented young sophomore tore up training camp.  Behrendt didn't do that. I know he is just a sophomore and has limited time in the system and was given limited opportunity and probably one of 5 or 6 QB's vying for the coaches' attention.  I know practically none of us who post on these boards have even heard of the kid, but darn it, there are 99 other guys on this team who came here expecting to make the playoffs, so he should have stepped up. Matt, I know you had a good camp. You earned the #2 QB position on a three time National Champion as a sophomore. I know you well may lead us to another one before your playing days are done at UW-W (who knows, maybe two!). But it's just not enough. We needed you in August, Matt. We needed you to beat out the senior who helped us win a Stagg Bowl in 2010.  99 guys were depending on you.

I didn't initially catch the sarcasm of this paragraph and was thinking you had lost your mind 

[footballfan413]

I agree...those fade routes in the endzone left me scratching my head.

I would agree that we got out coached, which doesn't happen often. They had the perfect play call late in the forth quarter. Oshkosh anticipated that we would blitz, and called a screen that went 40 yards down to our 10 (I think). Of course, a few plays later they scored that put the game out of reach.

That screen was a great call by Cerroni.

That was a fantastic call.  Remember when UWW struggled to run against Buffalo State due to all the "inside run blitzes"?  Do you think a screen pass might have done some damage? A tight end quick pass?

That UWO play was made possible because the UWW D had to play more aggressively to dig us out of a hole.  It was a 33 yard punt from Kindler from the UWW 6 yard line that caused part of the problem.  Did someone say Kindler?  This year, as both the fieldgoal kicker and punter, he is hitting 60% of his kicks and missed critical kicks against Buffalo State and maybe UWO.  Last year, he hit 70% of his kicks- as purely the fieldgoal kicker. 
Lest I be accused of attacking Kindler, the point here is coaching decisions that make you scratch your head.  I totally support Kindler as the fieldgoal kicker, but not both.  On the next UWW possession, UWW punted from their own 20- only this time they brought in the 'back up" that we've heard all season has a tremendous leg but needed "football" experience.  Gardener came in and boomed a 54-yarder to the UWO 26.  For what reason is Kindler punting?     

Emma...

In regard to Kindler, he tied Jeff Scheber's school record of 21 field goals last year.

As far as Eric's punting is concerned... his stats on Saturday vs: Oshkosh - 6 punts for a 41.7 yard average with a long of 50 yds. Only 1 of his six punts was returned for NO yards. Kindler's season average is 41.8 yds (28 punts with only 8 punts returned.)

The complete picture:
Kindler Fieldgoal % in 2011- 70%
Kindler Fieldgoal % in 2012- 60%

Punting:
Kindler: 28 punts, averaging 41.75 yards with 3 over 50 yards.
Gardener: 12 punts, averaging 42.67 yards with 4 over 50 yards.

Again, the question is, why is Kindler punting this year?

You know I love ya, 17, but don't you think this is nitpicking?  So Gardener is averaging 0.92 more yards per punt? Gardner is a freshman from Australia and playing his first year of American football!   You don't think that the coaching staff has a better handle on if he would really be ready to take over the punting duties full time from a junior who was a 1st Team All North Shore Conference Placekicker AND 2nd Team Punter in high school?  I know that was 2-3 years ago but he does have punting experience and was pretty good at it, apparently.  In my opinion, they totally get the benefit of the doubt on this one. 

[oshfb]

It'll be interesting to see how Oshkosh does without Wara. Hopefully Mrs. Wara quit having sons who are good at QB after Nate. 

ha! I'm pretty sure Nate is the last of the 4 Wara boys. Still impressive that 4 brothers played at UWO in a single decade.

[hazzben]

Am I wrong, or didn't Brekke QB a Stagg Bowl winner?

I would have to say that at least this year the MIAC may be better top to bottom, than the WIAC. Check the Non Con record. I would speculate that UST is probably better than you guys give them credit for. And you know how hard it is for a Johnnie to say anything good about the Tommies.

I think many on this board have a hard time seeing UST in such a bright light after seeing the way Eau Claire (who is currently 3-4 on the season) played against them.  If the Tommies were that much better, it wouldn't have come down to poor clock management by the Blugolds for UST to eke out a win.   

UST is really young. It didn't surprise me at all that they struggled in their first game of the year on the road. They graduated Sr. playmakers and leaders at almost every skill position on both sides of the ball and key guys on both lines.

They have improved immensely from that week 1 UWEC contest. Which was won by that very young and relatively inexperienced team on the road. The confidence and experience they're picking up is only making them more dangerous with each passing week.

Am I wrong, or didn't Brekke QB a Stagg Bowl winner?

I would have to say that at least this year the MIAC may be better top to bottom, than the WIAC. Check the Non Con record. I would speculate that UST is probably better than you guys give them credit for. And you know how hard it is for a Johnnie to say anything good about the Tommies.

Interesting food for thought.  If you look at current standings (in same order listed on each conference's website), here would be the match-ups. What does everyone think?

St. Thomas vs UW-O
Bethel vs UW-W
Concordia vs UW-EC
Augsberg vs UW-P
St. Olaf vs UW-L
Carleton vs UW-Stout
Gustavus vs UW-River Falls
Hamline vs UW-Stevens Point

Here'd be my take assuming neutral fields

UST wins 6 of 10. I really hope we get to see this one, home field probably determines the winner.
Push. BU & UWW both have good D's & offenses that have struggled. Instinct leans towards UWW just from an experience standpoint, but they seem to be on their heels right now.
Cobbers win 9 of 10. Common opponent, SJU beat UWEC on the road and lost by a lot more than the score indicated on the road to Concordia.
UWP wins 7 of 10. Augsburg has shown they can hang with good teams, but not that they can beat them.
UWL wins 6 of 10. Both teams have been inconsistent, but UWL has a nice NCC win from week 1 and the most Olaf can claim are some close losses.
SJU wins 7 of 10. You forgot SJU , who may be tied with Carleton in the standings but just demolished them 51-14. Keep in mind SJU also beat UWEC in EC.
GAC wins 8 of 10 v. UWRF. Common opponent in Simpson was a 9 point GAC win and a 9 point UWRF loss. GAC is much better than their record indicates. Not so for UWRF
Carleton v. UWRF. Push...Both teams stink
UWSP wins 10 of 10. Hamline only beats UMAC leftovers and teams unfit to compete in the MIAC.

[badgerwarhawk]

It'll be interesting to see how Oshkosh does without Wara. Hopefully Mrs. Wara quit having sons who are good at QB after Nate. 

It isn't often that there is a opposing player that I'm glad to see graduate.  Frankly most just don't concern me that much.  The last one I remember is Scott Krause, a quarterback at Point that more than likely only a few of you may recall.  But Wara definitely falls into that category.   It isn't a negative thing.  In fact, if anything, it's an indication of respect and I wish him the best of luck.  I'm just glad that we won't have to deal with him anymore after this season.

[emma17]

I agree...those fade routes in the endzone left me scratching my head.

I would agree that we got out coached, which doesn't happen often. They had the perfect play call late in the forth quarter. Oshkosh anticipated that we would blitz, and called a screen that went 40 yards down to our 10 (I think). Of course, a few plays later they scored that put the game out of reach.

That screen was a great call by Cerroni.

That was a fantastic call.  Remember when UWW struggled to run against Buffalo State due to all the "inside run blitzes"?  Do you think a screen pass might have done some damage? A tight end quick pass?

That UWO play was made possible because the UWW D had to play more aggressively to dig us out of a hole.  It was a 33 yard punt from Kindler from the UWW 6 yard line that caused part of the problem.  Did someone say Kindler?  This year, as both the fieldgoal kicker and punter, he is hitting 60% of his kicks and missed critical kicks against Buffalo State and maybe UWO.  Last year, he hit 70% of his kicks- as purely the fieldgoal kicker. 
Lest I be accused of attacking Kindler, the point here is coaching decisions that make you scratch your head.  I totally support Kindler as the fieldgoal kicker, but not both.  On the next UWW possession, UWW punted from their own 20- only this time they brought in the 'back up" that we've heard all season has a tremendous leg but needed "football" experience.  Gardener came in and boomed a 54-yarder to the UWO 26.  For what reason is Kindler punting?     

Emma...

In regard to Kindler, he tied Jeff Scheber's school record of 21 field goals last year.

As far as Eric's punting is concerned... his stats on Saturday vs: Oshkosh - 6 punts for a 41.7 yard average with a long of 50 yds. Only 1 of his six punts was returned for NO yards. Kindler's season average is 41.8 yds (28 punts with only 8 punts returned.)

The complete picture:
Kindler Fieldgoal % in 2011- 70%
Kindler Fieldgoal % in 2012- 60%

Punting:
Kindler: 28 punts, averaging 41.75 yards with 3 over 50 yards.
Gardener: 12 punts, averaging 42.67 yards with 4 over 50 yards.

Again, the question is, why is Kindler punting this year?

You know I love ya, 17, but don't you think this is nitpicking?  So Gardener is averaging 0.92 more yards per punt? Gardner is a freshman from Australia and playing his first year of American football!   You don't think that the coaching staff has a better handle on if he would really be ready to take over the punting duties full time from a junior who was a 1st Team All North Shore Conference Placekicker AND 2nd Team Punter in high school?  I know that was 2-3 years ago but he does have punting experience and was pretty good at it, apparently.  In my opinion, they totally get the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Thanks for posting 413 as I obviously need to explain myself. 
I'm not trying to make a case that Gardener is so much better than Kindler.  My point is that Kindler's fieldgoal accuracy has dropped off this year, including significant misses vs. Buffalo State as well as an extra point and fieldgoal vs. Oshkosh.  My suggestion is that it seems reasonable to consider that his performance this year may be impacted by the double duty.

As Voice has expressed, I realize there are things the staff looks at besides average.  It just seems to me that Kindler's decline in accuracy should be part of the decision the coaches are making when it comes to who should punt. 

[badgerwarhawk]

What makes you think that they haven't and thought that double duty isn't a factor, emma?  There are a lot of variables in field goal kicking.  Any of them could be involved.  Knowing our staff I find it hard to believe that they haven't considered it and for whatever reason decided to continue with Kindler as the primary punter. 

[emma17]

What makes you think that they haven't and thought that double duty isn't a factor, emma?  There are a lot of variables in field goal kicking.  Any of them could be involved.  Knowing our staff I find it hard to believe that they haven't considered it and for whatever reason decided to continue with Kindler as the primary punter.

You're right, I'd be surprised if they didn't think of that.

I think it's a valid discussion to have on the boards is all.   

[Pat Coleman]

There's a lot that goes into punting, too -- a kid has to be ready to handle the snap and see the rush in addition to just kicking the ball. Being cautious, especially in situations where the Warhawks are backed up, seems warranted and again -- none of us has seen UWW practice. (Except Tom, and he's not exactly unbiased.)

[WarhawkDad]

I agree...those fade routes in the endzone left me scratching my head.

I would agree that we got out coached, which doesn't happen often. They had the perfect play call late in the forth quarter. Oshkosh anticipated that we would blitz, and called a screen that went 40 yards down to our 10 (I think). Of course, a few plays later they scored that put the game out of reach.

That screen was a great call by Cerroni.

That was a fantastic call.  Remember when UWW struggled to run against Buffalo State due to all the "inside run blitzes"?  Do you think a screen pass might have done some damage? A tight end quick pass?

That UWO play was made possible because the UWW D had to play more aggressively to dig us out of a hole.  It was a 33 yard punt from Kindler from the UWW 6 yard line that caused part of the problem.  Did someone say Kindler?  This year, as both the fieldgoal kicker and punter, he is hitting 60% of his kicks and missed critical kicks against Buffalo State and maybe UWO.  Last year, he hit 70% of his kicks- as purely the fieldgoal kicker. 
Lest I be accused of attacking Kindler, the point here is coaching decisions that make you scratch your head.  I totally support Kindler as the fieldgoal kicker, but not both.  On the next UWW possession, UWW punted from their own 20- only this time they brought in the 'back up" that we've heard all season has a tremendous leg but needed "football" experience.  Gardener came in and boomed a 54-yarder to the UWO 26.  For what reason is Kindler punting?     

Emma...

In regard to Kindler, he tied Jeff Scheber's school record of 21 field goals last year.

As far as Eric's punting is concerned... his stats on Saturday vs: Oshkosh - 6 punts for a 41.7 yard average with a long of 50 yds. Only 1 of his six punts was returned for NO yards. Kindler's season average is 41.8 yds (28 punts with only 8 punts returned.)

The complete picture:
Kindler Fieldgoal % in 2011- 70%
Kindler Fieldgoal % in 2012- 60%

Punting:
Kindler: 28 punts, averaging 41.75 yards with 3 over 50 yards.
Gardener: 12 punts, averaging 42.67 yards with 4 over 50 yards.

Again, the question is, why is Kindler punting this year?

You know I love ya, 17, but don't you think this is nitpicking?  So Gardener is averaging 0.92 more yards per punt? Gardner is a freshman from Australia and playing his first year of American football!   You don't think that the coaching staff has a better handle on if he would really be ready to take over the punting duties full time from a junior who was a 1st Team All North Shore Conference Placekicker AND 2nd Team Punter in high school?  I know that was 2-3 years ago but he does have punting experience and was pretty good at it, apparently.  In my opinion, they totally get the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Thanks for posting 413 as I obviously need to explain myself. 
I'm not trying to make a case that Gardener is so much better than Kindler.  My point is that Kindler's fieldgoal accuracy has dropped off this year, including significant misses vs. Buffalo State as well as an extra point and fieldgoal vs. Oshkosh.  My suggestion is that it seems reasonable to consider that his performance this year may be impacted by the double duty.

As Voice has expressed, I realize there are things the staff looks at besides average.  It just seems to me that Kindler's decline in accuracy should be part of the decision the coaches are making when it comes to who should punt.

Emma

You have raised a valid point.   What I do not get why is why some posters on this board don't except constructive poster input and questioning as just that.  It is a valid discussion question.   I think Pat Coleman probably hit the nail on the head when he talked about handling the snap, the rush and that experience is important.   I believe that is why the coaches made the decision.   With that said, it is entirely possible and probable that Eric's accuracy has suffered because of that.   The other reason is weather and wind.   

It is going to be interesting to see what happens at Stevens Point on Saturday, I believe we could see significant changes in personnel, especially if we get an early lead.   Some will probably happen sooner than that.

WHD

[02 Warhawk]

You have raised a valid point.   What I do not get why is why some posters on this board don't except constructive poster input and questioning as just that.  It is a valid discussion question.   I think Pat Coleman probably hit the nail on the head when he talked about handling the snap, the rush and that experience is important.   I believe that is why the coaches made the decision.   With that said, it is entirely possible and probable that Eric's accuracy has suffered because of that.   The other reason is weather and wind.   

It is going to be interesting to see what happens at Stevens Point on Saturday, I believe we could see significant changes in personnel, especially if we get an early lead.   Some will probably happen sooner than that.

+K

I'll drink to that 

[footballfan413]

You have raised a valid point.   What I do not get why is why some posters on this board don't except constructive poster input and questioning as just that.  It is a valid discussion question.   I think Pat Coleman probably hit the nail on the head when he talked about handling the snap, the rush and that experience is important.   I believe that is why the coaches made the decision.   With that said, it is entirely possible and probable that Eric's accuracy has suffered because of that.   The other reason is weather and wind.   

It is going to be interesting to see what happens at Stevens Point on Saturday, I believe we could see significant changes in personnel, especially if we get an early lead.   Some will probably happen sooner than that.

Oh, I totally support and except his, "constructive poster input and questioning."    I can't help it if I had a good answer for him.  Isn't that the discussion part?     

[emma17]

Thanks WD, 02 and 413.

Based on some of the feedback I've received privately and publicly, I'd like to quickly clarify something.
The fact that I feel mistakes were made in how the QB situation was handled has no bearing whatsoever on my support for the team and especially for coach LL.  I don't expect or demand perfection from anybody- and everybody makes mistakes. 
I do feel grown ups should be able to discuss different points of view with respect.  The staff certainly deserves greater benefit of the doubt that all of their decisions are well thought out.  It is possible, however, for people that aren't coaching to have valid and even educated points of view that differ from the those of the staff.
 

           

[bleedpurple]

Am I wrong, or didn't Brekke QB a Stagg Bowl winner?

I would have to say that at least this year the MIAC may be better top to bottom, than the WIAC. Check the Non Con record. I would speculate that UST is probably better than you guys give them credit for. And you know how hard it is for a Johnnie to say anything good about the Tommies.

I think many on this board have a hard time seeing UST in such a bright light after seeing the way Eau Claire (who is currently 3-4 on the season) played against them.  If the Tommies were that much better, it wouldn't have come down to poor clock management by the Blugolds for UST to eke out a win.   

UST is really young. It didn't surprise me at all that they struggled in their first game of the year on the road. They graduated Sr. playmakers and leaders at almost every skill position on both sides of the ball and key guys on both lines.

They have improved immensely from that week 1 UWEC contest. Which was won by that very young and relatively inexperienced team on the road. The confidence and experience they're picking up is only making them more dangerous with each passing week.

Am I wrong, or didn't Brekke QB a Stagg Bowl winner?

I would have to say that at least this year the MIAC may be better top to bottom, than the WIAC. Check the Non Con record. I would speculate that UST is probably better than you guys give them credit for. And you know how hard it is for a Johnnie to say anything good about the Tommies.

Interesting food for thought.  If you look at current standings (in same order listed on each conference's website), here would be the match-ups. What does everyone think?

St. Thomas vs UW-O
Bethel vs UW-W
Concordia vs UW-EC
Augsberg vs UW-P
St. Olaf vs UW-L
Carleton vs UW-Stout
Gustavus vs UW-River Falls
Hamline vs UW-Stevens Point

Here'd be my take assuming neutral fields

UST wins 6 of 10. I really hope we get to see this one, home field probably determines the winner.
Push. BU & UWW both have good D's & offenses that have struggled. Instinct leans towards UWW just from an experience standpoint, but they seem to be on their heels right now.
Cobbers win 9 of 10. Common opponent, SJU beat UWEC on the road and lost by a lot more than the score indicated on the road to Concordia.
UWP wins 7 of 10. Augsburg has shown they can hang with good teams, but not that they can beat them.
UWL wins 6 of 10. Both teams have been inconsistent, but UWL has a nice NCC win from week 1 and the most Olaf can claim are some close losses.
SJU wins 7 of 10. You forgot SJU , who may be tied with Carleton in the standings but just demolished them 51-14. Keep in mind SJU also beat UWEC in EC.
GAC wins 8 of 10 v. UWRF. Common opponent in Simpson was a 9 point GAC win and a 9 point UWRF loss. GAC is much better than their record indicates. Not so for UWRF
Carleton v. UWRF. Push...Both teams stink
UWSP wins 10 of 10. Hamline only beats UMAC leftovers and teams unfit to compete in the MIAC.

Seriously.  I had both websites up side by side. How in the world did I miss the Johnnies of all people!  That's ridiculous. In my early days, the Johnnies are the only MIAC team I ever even heard of! Sorry about that. Anyway, thanks for your input.

So you score it:

MIAC 47
WIAC 43