FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[emma17]

You may not have meant it as a crack emma, but it was - at least in some way. I, again, refer to the 2003 run-up. Mt was on a record breaking winning streak, no one gave the Johnnies a chance (well, I think there was one notable exception). I don't think that UMU is that much better than the other elite teams in D III. Maybe 7 times out of 10, Mount wins this one, but I wouldn't put  it at less than those odds.  One must respect the opponent, but don't fear them. By the way, the Johnnies were the first team to beat UMU in the Stagg. Who says the MIAC doesn't provide competition. I think 4 of the MIAC teams were ranked at one point during the season, and it would not have been a shock if three MIAC teams had made the playoffs. Weak sisters? I think not.

Ret you're debating with yourself not me. I already explained my comment wasn't a crack at St T or any team or conference. The point is along the lines of what 02 posted, Mt is simply much faster at all positions than our WIAC, MIAC, CCIW teams face.  I'm in no way saying there aren't good teams in the MIAC or that the WIAC is superior, I'm simply saying if you think any of the teams St T played this year have given them the look Mt will give on Friday then IMO you are mistaken.

[emma17]

UWW gave the rest of D3 the blueprint.  The question is simple, is St. Thomas' line play at a championship level?   

It's a little more complex than that. UWW had elite line play, but they also had back to back elite RB's. UST's Oline may be every bit as good as Whitewater's championship lines, but they do not have a Beaver or Coppage toting the rock. And Mount doesn't have a Kmic either.

Complex?  I don't think so. Without great line play vs Mt - the talent of Beavers and Coppage is nowhere near enough for a victory. I'll take a great O (and D of course) line with a good RB over a good O Line and great RB. Get a 4 yard average per carry w 30+ carries and keep the Mt O off the field and you may find victory.
I wonder if an O Line w freshman will be able to do that vs Mt. I hope so.

[footballfan413]

UWW gave the rest of D3 the blueprint.  The question is simple, is St. Thomas' line play at a championship level?   

It's a little more complex than that. UWW had elite line play, but they also had back to back elite RB's. UST's Oline may be every bit as good as Whitewater's championship lines, but they do not have a Beaver or Coppage toting the rock. And Mount doesn't have a Kmic either.

Complex?  I don't think so. Without great line play vs Mt - the talent of Beavers and Coppage is nowhere near enough for a victory. I'll take a great O (and D of course) line with a good RB over a good O Line and great RB. Get a 4 yard average per carry w 30+ carries and keep the Mt O off the field and you may find victory.
I wonder if an O Line w freshman will be able to do that vs Mt. I hope so.

17 is right!!    We had Beaver toting the rock in 05 an 06, wasn't enough until we won the LOS in 07.  The Raiders had Kmic in 07, wasn't enough because, we won the LOS.  We had Coppage toting the rock in 08, wasn't enough to win that year either! It all starts with the lines, boys!  It is what opens holes for the run game, and gives QB's time for the passing game. 

17, let me just pass along advice I got from my parents almost 32 years ago when I first became a parent.
   "Always remember, you're the parent!"   

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

UWW gave the rest of D3 the blueprint.  The question is simple, is St. Thomas' line play at a championship level?   

It's a little more complex than that. UWW had elite line play, but they also had back to back elite RB's. UST's Oline may be every bit as good as Whitewater's championship lines, but they do not have a Beaver or Coppage toting the rock. And Mount doesn't have a Kmic either.

I was thinking the same thing.  When Coppage broke through the front line, he was a threat to take it to the house every play.  Same with Beaver, Kmic, and even Moore and Pugh.

[footballfan413]

^ As good as the Oline is, their Dline is just as good and more experienced. I'd wager UST will be able to contain the Mt. running attack if it was just Mt's Oline v. UST's. And I know that Mt has a good one.

The x factor is the way Mt. will spread UST out. They have an elite core of WR's that spread the field and make you cover in space. EDIT: *UST (Doh!) has a good group of DB's, but they haven't faced a group of WR's like Mt's yet.

And I'd agree about the 'lights.' UST is no stranger to big games after the last 3 years. But playing Mt. and playing in the Stagg Bowl are uniquely big games. It'll be interesting to see how they react, especially given their youth. I'm guessing Caruso has them ready for primetime.

I am sure that the Tommies terrific coach will have them as ready as possible but it is more than just being ready to play in a big game.  It is the circus that surrounds the Stagg Bowl.  It is the banquet, the Gagliardi Trophy ceremony, the long travel schedule, the TV coverage, interviews and publicity, the hype and drama, etc!  Salem is about a 6 hour drive from Alliance and UMU and the Raider fans consider Salem Stadium their second home field after all these years and they aren't shy about letting you know it. The Raiders do not face the same, "first time," traps that other teams do.  Their seniors have been there every year that they have been Raiders.  It is something that has to be experienced.  You can't prepare for it.  The whole atmosphere is intimidating the first time and you only need one or two key players to feel the pressure and have it affect their game.  But hey, maybe STU will get lucky and some of the Raiders will flip them off at the banquet again like they did in 07.  That worked out really well for them.   

[bleedpurple]

^ As good as the Oline is, their Dline is just as good and more experienced. I'd wager UST will be able to contain the Mt. running attack if it was just Mt's Oline v. UST's. And I know that Mt has a good one.

The x factor is the way Mt. will spread UST out. They have an elite core of WR's that spread the field and make you cover in space. EDIT: *UST (Doh!) has a good group of DB's, but they haven't faced a group of WR's like Mt's yet.

And I'd agree about the 'lights.' UST is no stranger to big games after the last 3 years. But playing Mt. and playing in the Stagg Bowl are uniquely big games. It'll be interesting to see how they react, especially given their youth. I'm guessing Caruso has them ready for primetime.

I am sure that the Tommies terrific coach will have them as ready as possible but it is more than just being ready to play in a big game.  It is the circus that surrounds the Stagg Bowl.  It is the banquet, the Gagliardi Trophy ceremony, the long travel schedule, the TV coverage, interviews and publicity, the hype and drama, etc!  Salem is about a 6 hour drive from Alliance and UMU and the Raider fans consider Salem Stadium their second home field after all these years and they aren't shy about letting you know it. The Raiders do not face the same, "first time," traps that other teams do.  Their seniors have been there every year that they have been Raiders. It is something that has to be experienced.  You can't prepare for it.  The whole atmosphere is intimidating the first time and you only need one or two key players to feel the pressure and have it affect their game.  But hey, maybe STU will get lucky and some of the Raiders will flip them off at the banquet again like they did in 07.  That worked out really well for them.   

The seniors do have a lot of Stagg experience. The only thing they haven't experienced in Salem is WINNING! 

[bleedpurple]

Does anyone know the rules pertaining to medical redshirts, there has been some talk that Platteville's Nick Anderson, QB, John Kelly QB, and Lee Vlasak, RB, will apply for a extra season all have started at some point this season and last season.  I think Anderson has been a starter since he was a freshman but the injury bug has caught him every year. 

PS.  to newcardfan if you like pizza try Gus's in downtown WW.

From D3football.com:

"The general guideline is that you must have played one-third of the scheduled games or fewer in order to be eligible. If you suffer a season-ending injury in that time-frame and can document it, your conference (or athletic director, if an independent) can file paperwork with the NCAA on your behalf to restore a season of eligibility."

[emma17]

UWW gave the rest of D3 the blueprint.  The question is simple, is St. Thomas' line play at a championship level?   

It's a little more complex than that. UWW had elite line play, but they also had back to back elite RB's. UST's Oline may be every bit as good as Whitewater's championship lines, but they do not have a Beaver or Coppage toting the rock. And Mount doesn't have a Kmic either.

I was thinking the same thing.  When Coppage broke through the front line, he was a threat to take it to the house every play.  Same with Beaver, Kmic, and even Moore and Pugh.

KJ Dad,
I'm very glad you brought up "when Coppage broke through the line".  In the 2010 Stagg Bowl, when Coppage ran 75 yards for the game clinching score, he in fact, "broke" through nothing- thanks to unbelievable blocking by the O-Line- as well as receivers.  This blocking was against an excellent Mt Union defense. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GsZkCzrU7w
There are many good things about this play, but I find it particularly interesting how many defenders were near the point of attack, yet great blocking beat the numbers. 

[emma17]

17, let me just pass along advice I got from my parents almost 32 years ago when I first became a parent.
   "Always remember, you're the parent!"   
[/quote]

Agreed entirely. 
This sort of post doesn't belong on the football boards, but I'll take a chance and do so as a public service announcement in favor of family and marriage.

This isn't a case of the kids dictating to the parent.  I'm a divorced guy that desparately misses my time with the kids.  Dinner together every Wednesday is great, but it's a rare occassion indeed that my teenagers actually want to spend time in dad's house on a weekend.  Granted, they won't be coming to just hang with me, but it's time together nonetheless.  Something to think about when love is on the rocks.

Anyway, there's a good chance they won't be able to muster the group up for the party to happen this time of year. 

     

[footballfan413]

Oh, 17, I am aware of the situation and was just giving you crap.   I totally get it!  Of course, seeing your kids is never a chance you turn down. My #1 rule and one that gets more crucial the older they get.    Sorry if my crack hit a little too close to home. We'd love to see you but totally appreciate and understand which is the right choice 

[retagent]

413 - Your point about the hoopla surrounding the Stagg is great. Thanks for making it. I should have taken that into account when making my points about the quality of the MIAC, St Thomas, etc. There is more to such a game than the quality of the team.

[hazzben]

UWW gave the rest of D3 the blueprint.  The question is simple, is St. Thomas' line play at a championship level?   

It's a little more complex than that. UWW had elite line play, but they also had back to back elite RB's. UST's Oline may be every bit as good as Whitewater's championship lines, but they do not have a Beaver or Coppage toting the rock. And Mount doesn't have a Kmic either.

Complex?  I don't think so. Without great line play vs Mt - the talent of Beavers and Coppage is nowhere near enough for a victory. I'll take a great O (and D of course) line with a good RB over a good O Line and great RB. Get a 4 yard average per carry w 30+ carries and keep the Mt O off the field and you may find victory.
I wonder if an O Line w freshman will be able to do that vs Mt. I hope so.

17 is right!!    We had Beaver toting the rock in 05 an 06, wasn't enough until we won the LOS in 07.  The Raiders had Kmic in 07, wasn't enough because, we won the LOS.  We had Coppage toting the rock in 08, wasn't enough to win that year either! It all starts with the lines, boys!  It is what opens holes for the run game, and gives QB's time for the passing game. 

17, let me just pass along advice I got from my parents almost 32 years ago when I first became a parent.
   "Always remember, you're the parent!"   

You're both missing the point. I'm not arguing elite line play isn't important. I'm arguing the story goes beyond this. Do you really think you win in 07, 09-11 without Beaver and Coppage playing behind those great lines? I don't. I remember the run Beaver made in 07 to seal it. Great initial blocking, and then you saw an elite back do his thing at the second level.

So yeah, it is more complex than just elite line play (which was 17's original argument) or having only an elite back. I agree, I'd take the elite line over the elite back. But when Mount and Whitewater have been winning these they've had both, hence the complexity. It's also interesting that in 2003, when SJU beat Mount, Mount didn't have an elite back but had a great line (this is what was claimed anyway). But without a Moore, Pugh or Kmic they got beat by a team with a ridiculous front 7, very good Oline, and elite skill position player (Blake Elliot).

UWW gave the rest of D3 the blueprint.  The question is simple, is St. Thomas' line play at a championship level?   

It's a little more complex than that. UWW had elite line play, but they also had back to back elite RB's. UST's Oline may be every bit as good as Whitewater's championship lines, but they do not have a Beaver or Coppage toting the rock. And Mount doesn't have a Kmic either.

I was thinking the same thing.  When Coppage broke through the front line, he was a threat to take it to the house every play.  Same with Beaver, Kmic, and even Moore and Pugh.

Yep, that's exactly the point I'm making. Interestingly, neither Mount or UST has an elite RB. Still some good players, but no All-America caliber guys. Both claim exceptional line play on both sides. I think Mount has the edge at QB and WR. But UST is no slouch at those positions. Should be a blast to watch.

[02 Warhawk]

Yep, that's exactly the point I'm making. Interestingly, neither Mount or UST has an elite RB. Still some good players, but no All-America caliber guys. Both claim exceptional line play on both sides. I think Mount has the edge at QB and WR. But UST is no slouch at those positions. Should be a blast to watch.

I think this is where Mount has a HUGE advantage. Mount's receivers are much more athletic, and Burke doesn't make the mistakes that O'Connell does.

[hazzben]

Yep, that's exactly the point I'm making. Interestingly, neither Mount or UST has an elite RB. Still some good players, but no All-America caliber guys. Both claim exceptional line play on both sides. I think Mount has the edge at QB and WR. But UST is no slouch at those positions. Should be a blast to watch.

I think this is where Mount has a HUGE advantage. Mount's receivers are much more athletic, and Burke doesn't make the mistakes that O'Connell does.

Except last week  But yeah, as good as O'Connell is and will be, Burke seems to be already elite. And Collins is just another freak WR at Mount, ho hum. I do think UST's secondary is overlooked too often though, but they will definitely earn their 'scholarship' money on Friday 

[wildcat11]

Yep, that's exactly the point I'm making. Interestingly, neither Mount or UST has an elite RB. Still some good players, but no All-America caliber guys. Both claim exceptional line play on both sides. I think Mount has the edge at QB and WR. But UST is no slouch at those positions. Should be a blast to watch.

I think this is where Mount has a HUGE advantage. Mount's receivers are much more athletic, and Burke doesn't make the mistakes that O'Connell does.

Except last week  But yeah, as good as O'Connell is and will be, Burke seems to be already elite. And Collins is just another freak WR at Mount, ho hum. I do think UST's secondary is overlooked too often though, but they will definitely earn their 'scholarship' money on Friday 

I know this doesn't matter but Wara's ball didn't look right coming out of his hand last week.  He still had numbers but a few of his passes sailed on him where I didn't see that the week before (or what I saw on film).  Stinks he wasn't at 100%