FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[voice]

Here's a statistics note with UW-Whitewater guaranteed at least two more games this season (postseason).

UW-Whitewater's Eric Kindler needs 8 field goals to catch his predecessor, Jeff Schebler's all-time NCAA (all division) career record of 75 field goals. Kindler currently has 67 field goals.

If the Hawks can win two or three postseason games Eric would have a legitimate shot a catching Schebler's national mark. 

Kindler has had a remarkable career hasn't he?

[bleedpurple]

Barring any overly weird results on Saturday (always a possibility), I have a feeling that UWW and North Central will headline a "quad" in the playoffs, with Bethel and Linfield headlining a different quad.

As long as I am gazing into my crystal ball, I'll say Concordia WI, Franklin, Wittenberg, Illinois Wesleyan, John Carroll and whoever the last Pool C team is (Wabash?  T More?) fills out the bracket.  Osh/Platt go over to the Bethel/Linfield quad with Pac Luth, Redlands, St Norb, Wartburg and St Scholastica.

I know, I just locked in the goofiest Saturday ever coming up, but what the hey .....

We'll have to see what Keith comes up with tomorrow. Good luck separating UWW and NCC. They have three common opponents - which seems unusual for two teams in different conferences. And it's not straightforward to learn anything from those common opps. NCC has been placed consistently in the polls all year, from 4th to 6th. UWW has been rising with a bullet, including being 1st in the regional rankings and jumping Bethel this week despite a less than overwhelming game against UWSP.

The good news is that if they are 1/2 in a region, they are easy driving distance for fans of both teams.  I know there are some people not rooting for such a clash in the quarters, but I'm not one of them.  I want to be at as many of these things as possible! 

Kindler's had a great career. Here's hoping he breaks tthe record to win the Stagg Bowl! 

[badgerwarhawk]

Someone should remind the Pointers' public address announcer that he's not a cheerleader.  PA announcers are neutral narrators of the game.

I've never been to a football game in which the announcer wasn't 100% pulling for his home team. Why would the PA announcer need to be a nuetral narrator of the game? Sorry, I don't agree with this post (unless I'm missing sarcasm?)

This discussion has pretty much run it's course so other than to clarify that I wasn't be sarcastic and to acknowledge your right to a differing opinion I don't have anything else to say. 

Voice, I've been tracking Kindler's progress all season. 

[MasterJedi]

Here's a statistics note with UW-Whitewater guaranteed at least two more games this season (postseason).

UW-Whitewater's Eric Kindler needs 8 field goals to catch his predecessor, Jeff Schebler's all-time NCAA (all division) career record of 75 field goals. Kindler currently has 67 field goals.

If the Hawks can win two or three postseason games Eric would have a legitimate shot a catching Schebler's national mark. 

Kindler has had a remarkable career hasn't he?

All going back to that first game against Adrian when he was second string and his predecessor from Florida couldn't make any XPs. Kindler came in, made his XPs (might have missed one) but he also missed a field goal from what I remember. But he was named the starter, came back and has had an amazing career at UWW. Hats off to the young man!

[hazzben]

I think there's a decent chance Redlands gets sent to UMHB in Rd 1. Since Texas Lutheran got blown up, someone is going to have to go a good distance to UMHB...

Millsaps?

Technically, they are just outside the 'drivable' distance. Could/would the committee fudge on that just a tinge. Maybe...

[emma17]

Not sure if it was or wasn't, but for the record, UW-W has a stronger SOS than Bethel. UW-W is 13th and Bethel is 23rd.

That should flip after this weekend with Bethel playing 7-2 St. Johns and UW-W playing 0-9 River Falls.

How about that. St. John's is 7-2 and one of their victories is against 0-9 UW River Falls- by a field goal w 2 seconds left.
IL Gator -I understand you're only pointing out the facts- but this is another example of why subjectivity is important to balance the pure numbers. The records of the two teams in question hardly tells the story of whether they are a hard team to beat- which really is the point.

I believe that all of you agreed that since St John's only squeeked by UWRF, they were dead meat at St Thomas. OOPS!

If you haven't already fugured out that comparing such things is fraught with danger, let me tell you that right now.

Games against common opponents are not necessarily dispositive in determining how the game will go.

And besides, that was eons ago. Those two teams are not the same teams today.

Come on Ret, my point remains.  The UWW reduction in SOS in playing UWRF is a punishment too great for the reality of the situation.
It's silly for you to say that the game was eons ago as if only St. John's could have improved w time. UWRF played both St. John's and St Thomas tough as well as Simpson. They have lost all their games but most have been respectable.
Again, the point is UWW SOS will be unduly punished by the record-'because the record looks nothing like the difficulty many teams have had in beating UWRF.

[retagent]

The same could be said in many different situations. That's what I'm trying to get the WIACcentric followers to note. Things change during a season. St John's for example, has a very young team. (I know that UWW is also in this situation, so it holds for both, if you need that for me to make my point) As the season went on, SJU had some very close calls, but came through positively. They also have had some significant injuries, which, some might argue, make them not as good as when they played UWRF. A case can be made from that. The fact remains, you are the team your record says you are. There may be teams in the MIAC, middle of the pack group, that could play conference champions in other conferences at least even. There is no way to prove or disprove that, but past performance by MIAC (as well as WIAC) teams in recent playoff games is one thing that points in that direction. Top MIAC teams are hurt SOS-wise by playing these teams too. Life's tough - get a helmet.

[emma17]

The same could be said in many different situations. That's what I'm trying to get the WIACcentric followers to note. Things change during a season. St John's for example, has a very young team. (I know that UWW is also in this situation, so it holds for both, if you need that for me to make my point) As the season went on, SJU had some very close calls, but came through positively. They also have had some significant injuries, which, some might argue, make them not as good as when they played UWRF. A case can be made from that. The fact remains, you are the team your record says you are. There may be teams in the MIAC, middle of the pack group, that could play conference champions in other conferences at least even. There is no way to prove or disprove that, but past performance by MIAC (as well as WIAC) teams in recent playoff games is one thing that points in that direction. Top MIAC teams are hurt SOS-wise by playing these teams too. Life's tough - get a helmet.

Completely disagree Ret and IMO you are throwing out generalties to support a weak arguement.
I've heard the saying "you are the team your record says you are" many a time before.  That applies to the NFL mostly, not to D3.  Northwestern Minnesota is 6-3 Ret, are they as good a team as their record would indicate?  I don't think so, they got beat pretty good by your last place team St. Olaf.  Do you think 0-9 UWRF might have a pretty good shot at beating the daylights out of Northwestern Minnesota?  If you do, then "you are as good a team as the record indicates" isn't very accurate. 

"There may be teams in the MIAC, middle of the pack group, that could play conference champions in other conferences at least even".  I'm sure that's true without question.  But that's not we are talking about are we Ret?  We're not wondering whether a 5-4 Augsburg can play 9-0 Galudet tough.  We're talking about the last place team in the WIAC, at 0-9, not a middle of the pack team, playing two of the top MIAC teams tough and one of the top IIAC teams tough. 

You consider this thought at WIAC centric, I don't at all.  Rather than empty generalizations, show us with real examples how the worst team(s) in a conference played the best teams in highly ranked conferences tough- or at all for that matter. 

UWRF at 0-9 ABSOLUTELY is not the same as a 1-8 St. Olaf or 0-9 Wilmington or 1-8 Millikin.  Yet, their record will have the same impact on UWW's sos as any of those three would.   

[02 Warhawk]

Barring any overly weird results on Saturday (always a possibility), I have a feeling that UWW and North Central will headline a "quad" in the playoffs, with Bethel and Linfield headlining a different quad.

As long as I am gazing into my crystal ball, I'll say Concordia WI, Franklin, Wittenberg, Illinois Wesleyan, John Carroll and whoever the last Pool C team is (Wabash?  T More?) fills out the bracket.  Osh/Platt go over to the Bethel/Linfield quad with Pac Luth, Redlands, St Norb, Wartburg and St Scholastica.

I know, I just locked in the goofiest Saturday ever coming up, but what the hey .....

We'll have to see what Keith comes up with tomorrow. Good luck separating UWW and NCC. They have three common opponents - which seems unusual for two teams in different conferences. And it's not straightforward to learn anything from those common opps. NCC has been placed consistently in the polls all year, from 4th to 6th. UWW has been rising with a bullet, including being 1st in the regional rankings and jumping Bethel this week despite a less than overwhelming game against UWSP.

Keith believes the #1s in each region are as follows:

West: Bethel
North: UWW
South: MHB
East: John Carroll/UMU winner

I'm guessing UWW's SOS (13th) is what gives them the nod over NCC (whose SOS is 106).

We'll see if the committee agrees with that on Sunday.

[retagent]

The same could be said in many different situations. That's what I'm trying to get the WIACcentric followers to note. Things change during a season. St John's for example, has a very young team. (I know that UWW is also in this situation, so it holds for both, if you need that for me to make my point) As the season went on, SJU had some very close calls, but came through positively. They also have had some significant injuries, which, some might argue, make them not as good as when they played UWRF. A case can be made from that. The fact remains, you are the team your record says you are. There may be teams in the MIAC, middle of the pack group, that could play conference champions in other conferences at least even. There is no way to prove or disprove that, but past performance by MIAC (as well as WIAC) teams in recent playoff games is one thing that points in that direction. Top MIAC teams are hurt SOS-wise by playing these teams too. Life's tough - get a helmet.

I bolded some of my generalities.

[GBMAN]

http://www.620wtmj.com/sports/localsports/UW---Whitewater-Warhawks-are-making-a-name-for-themselves-231725961.html

Nice article and interview about Wisconsin - Whitewater

[KitchenSink]

Barring any overly weird results on Saturday (always a possibility), I have a feeling that UWW and North Central will headline a "quad" in the playoffs, with Bethel and Linfield headlining a different quad.

As long as I am gazing into my crystal ball, I'll say Concordia WI, Franklin, Wittenberg, Illinois Wesleyan, John Carroll and whoever the last Pool C team is (Wabash?  T More?) fills out the bracket.  Osh/Platt go over to the Bethel/Linfield quad with Pac Luth, Redlands, St Norb, Wartburg and St Scholastica.

I know, I just locked in the goofiest Saturday ever coming up, but what the hey .....

We'll have to see what Keith comes up with tomorrow. Good luck separating UWW and NCC. They have three common opponents - which seems unusual for two teams in different conferences. And it's not straightforward to learn anything from those common opps. NCC has been placed consistently in the polls all year, from 4th to 6th. UWW has been rising with a bullet, including being 1st in the regional rankings and jumping Bethel this week despite a less than overwhelming game against UWSP.

Keith believes the #1s in each region are as follows:

West: Bethel
North: UWW
South: MHB
East: John Carroll/UMU winner

I'm guessing UWW's SOS (13th) is what gives them the nod over NCC (whose SOS is 106).

We'll see if the committee agrees with that on Sunday.

Those are the 4 that I had on my scratch notes, with Linfield, NCC, J Hopkins and Hobart as #2's.

[bleedpurple]

UW-W holds #1 in the West.

[emma17]

The same could be said in many different situations. That's what I'm trying to get the WIACcentric followers to note. Things change during a season. St John's for example, has a very young team. (I know that UWW is also in this situation, so it holds for both, if you need that for me to make my point) As the season went on, SJU had some very close calls, but came through positively. They also have had some significant injuries, which, some might argue, make them not as good as when they played UWRF. A case can be made from that. The fact remains, you are the team your record says you are. There may be teams in the MIAC, middle of the pack group, that could play conference champions in other conferences at least even. There is no way to prove or disprove that, but past performance by MIAC (as well as WIAC) teams in recent playoff games is one thing that points in that direction. Top MIAC teams are hurt SOS-wise by playing these teams too. Life's tough - get a helmet.

I bolded some of my generalities.

I don't even know what point you're trying to make anymore.

Let me just ask you a question. Today, with all you know, what team do you think would be a tougher challenge for Bethel, UWRF or St Olaf?

[retagent]

I've been mulling over this back and forth and decided that it is an example of how different people look at the same situation and come away with different conclusions. I'm not sure that we're that far apart, but are just emphasizing different aspects of the total picture. We may even come to the similar conclusions about who we think are better teams, given the entire picture. I have tried to be concise, and have, maybe, come off as too doctrinaire about what I am trying to get you to consider. I don't necessarily disagree with your points as something to be taken into consideration when ranking teams. I just think that there are other things that must also be considered.

I just think that teams can change over the course of the season either improving, or getting worse. Sometimes it's not clear as to how a team has changed. Looking at games early in the season is valid, but those games have to be put into perspective. Even game-to-game can be tricky. UWW beats Platteville by 19, then Stevens Point by 10. They also beat Wash U by ten. They score as many points against Platteville as they do against Stevens Point and Wash U combined. How do you rank those opponents? In order to do so, other factors come into play. If UWW plays Wash U today, they might win by 30. You never know.

Let's leave it there, since it would take longer than a couple paragraphs to come to some sort ofunderstanding of how we, with our internal biases, and different world views, to understand where we both are coming from. I have no problem with your "system" since it is yours, and as I said before, I don't see anythinginherently invalid with it. Just trying to get you to grasp the nuances I take into consideration.

My previous point was to show that there were specifics in where I'm coming from.