FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[bleedpurple]

I'm hearing that Jake wants to play tomorrow. IMO, the only way it happens in the first round is if playing would not put him at a significantly higher risk of re-injury than when he is healthy.  Does anyone know how that is determined with a high ankle sprain? Is there some sort of strength test?

Let me start by saying I am not a podiatrist, nor have I ever played one on TV. But, I have had multiple high ankle sprains and normal ankle sprains in my younger days hiking and mountain climbing and just plain old walking accidents. High ankle sprains are said to be harder to diagnose because there is a lot less swelling than the normal ankle sprain. But, once a doctor determines it is a high ankle sprain, the first thing they do next is see if the ankle is stable or unstable. Stable is the less severe because the tibia and fibula are generally unaffected.

If it's unstable, at least two, and maybe all 3 of the ligaments are torn, and the tibia and fibula or affected.

I've had the unstable typo at least 6 times and it's always been at least 2-3 months, 1 time it took 6 months, to completely heal. The better shape you're in probably reduces the recovery time, I think. I've never had surgery but that is a possibility, too. Doesn't sound like Jake had surgery. Usually it took about a week to reduce the swelling, then another couple weeks to restore the range of motion, flexibility and strength, then finally going back to everyday motions. I got to know my physical therapist quite well with all the time we spent together.

I was always told that once you have a high ankle sprain, you're more susceptble to future sprains - so you have to be really careful in preparation for an activity.  The kind of stuff Jake needs to do to play WR - side to side running, starting and stopping, jumping and landing on his feet, all create high stress on his ankles. I don't know the specifics on Jake's injury and as I said before - "I'm not a doctor" - and the fact that the Warhawks cruise this week without him anyway, I would guess he doesn't play to give it one more week of recuperation time. One bad turn on a nearly healed ankle would take him out of the playoffs for good - IMO it isn't worth the risk using him in this game, then again, I don't know the severity of his injury. But the fact that he's missed three already tells me it was a lot worse than any of us thought seeing him walking off the field under his own power a few weeks ago.

Thanks for the info Bobo. 6 high ankle sprains? Wow! I'm beginning to feel like you have led a slightly more active life than I have. Although I have stubbed my toe on the way to the fridge a couple of times. 

That was good info. I think you, Just Bill, and I are on the same page. I think they have been very cautious all along. I think if any of the last couple of games had been the Stagg Bowl, he would have already played. I think LL is probably saying we don't need to risk it.  The reason I think he would have played is because more than one person (none coaches of course) have said he is coming along really well. One student who knows him pretty well  said "Jake's fine". I think the re-injury thing has been a bigger factor than the condition of the ankle. I think when they turn him loose, he will be doing well.  We just need to pray he doesn't re-injure it. Tape that sucker up good whenever he does come back.

[BoBo]

Here goes...I think about this a lot when watching and re-watching games.  I look at players on teams the Warhawks play and wonder how they would fit - from strickly a football standpoint - in the UWW scheme of things. The running back position is one I center on due to the fact that the Hawks have such a tradition of great backs.

I see the two backs on the all conference first team, Puccini of UWP and Hertrampf of UWL combined to account for 80% of their teams rushing totals (84% for Puccini and 76% for Hertrampt). In contrast, the Warhawks had 4 backs who accounted for 88% of the UWW rushing ouput. So, in essense, the Warhawks had the depth to have 4 backs do the work that Platteville and La Crosse, to a slightly lesser degree, did using only 1 back. I would conclude that Platteville and La Crosse did not have the depth beyond their #1 back to be comfortable putting anybody else in there. Puccini rushed 25.4 times per game, the next closest was 2.3/gm; Hertrampf 19.7 X's, the next highest 3.6/gm . Those two guys were the workhorses of their teams and they rode them long and hard. It's hard to keep Puccini off the first team being the only conference rusher over 1,000 yards.  Was he the best running back? IMO no way. Would he break into the foursome of Moore, Ratliffe, Patterson, and Givens?  Not so sure; Hertrampf even less so. The coaches seemed to go by pure numbers and those two guys were the two leading rushers by a wide margin. Dennis Moore had only 98 carries to lead Whitewater; Ratliffe 82 (in 7 games); Patterson 65 (in 8 games); Givens 68. Hard to justify a first team nod, with those numbers. That's most remarkable - that the depth on this team allowed the leading rusher to have only 98 carries in 10 games. Each one of them had games that they stood out from the crowd.  Prior to his injury, I felt Nick Patterson was the best of the bunch and the best in the WIAC. He and the others would be the #1 on any other team in this league (and before retagent opens his trap, watch the games and let your eye ball be the test). But he was never the game changer that Justin Beaver or Levell Coppage was. Nor was either of the other 3, though Ratliffe proved he was close especially in last years Stagg. And I think the coaches realize that, too. By having all 4 prepped and ready to go week in, week out, they could better handle the adversity of injury, like Ratliffe from the start of the season, to Patterson going down during a game. There was little to no drop off in talent, 1-4. How many D3 schools can say that?  Might be able to count that with 3 fingers, if that.  I think with LL getting Jake on the first team missing games like he did is statisfying enough; sacrificing a first team selection as running back, as much as you'd like to have that too, you can't have everything. And I think it was fair.  I think we're well set-up for the playoffs.

[BoBo]

Thanks for the info Bobo. 6 high ankle sprains? Wow! I'm beginning to feel like you have led a slightly more active life than I have. Although I have stubbed my toe on the way to the fridge a couple of times. 

That was good info. I think you, Just Bill, and I are on the same page. I think they have been very cautious all along. I think if any of the last couple of games had been the Stagg Bowl, he would have already played. I think LL is probably saying we don't need to risk it.  The reason I think he would have played is because more than one person (none coaches of course) have said he is coming along really well. One student who knows him pretty well  said "Jake's fine". I think the re-injury thing has been a bigger factor than the condition of the ankle. I think when they turn him loose, he will be doing well.  We just need to pray he doesn't re-injure it. Tape that sucker up good whenever he does come back.

First, I would say get a second opinion!!   

Let me tell you the honest truth, bleed, I've had ACL reconstruction in one knee and currently have a meniscus tear in the other that I'm getting relief with non-invasive treatments, but those ankle sprains, and I've probably had more than 6, those are the ones I had treatment on, are some of the most painful injuries I've ever experienced. It's been a good 15 years since I've had a bad one, but something as simple as stepping on something barefoot in the dark or an uneven sidewalk can get quite scary for me. I'm not a young man anymore, eventhough I try to act like one every time I can. I was really into the outdoor adventure things years ago, but the abuse my body went through has forced me to curtail much of it. No more whitewater canoeing, no more climbing or rapelling, the list goes on and on. 

[emma17]

Interesting stuff on the RB's Bobo.  I think you may be right in that there could have been some horse trading going on for All Conference spots.

I'm going to go a different direction on you.  In my opinion, I believe UWW's struggles in short yardage, goal line and possibly in overall offensive production is the very fact that they do substitute so often- UWW over substitutes the RB's. 

It's time to settle on two and go with them.  I know it's hard for the other two, but just like sitting Jake is best for the team, so is sitting 2 of the 4. 

With all the talent UWW has at RB, when is the last time one of them broke off a long TD run?  Especially a run that involved making people miss at the second and third levels? 

Is it possible the RB's are so focused on ball security for fear of bench duty that they aren't letting it all loose once they break through the first level?
Is it possible RB's aren't "lathered up" and completely into the flow of the game mentally and physically. 
Is it possible the RB's aren't able to get a feel for certain offensive linemen, or for defensive player tendencies? 
Is it possible a RB sets up defensive players similar to what a receiver does, looking to take advantage later in the game or even later in the series?
Is it possible the RB's aren't able to gain the confidence that comes from battling a particular defender all game long, such as a pass rusher? 

I've never played the particular position, but I can't imagine it's any different than the other positions.  UWW's O Line has a history of dominating teams late in the game.  I don't know that it's because our guys are in better shape and it's certainly not because we rotate O linemen.  I think it's because, over the course of a game, UWW's O Line guys are both completely into the flow of the game and they've learned a lot about their opponent, and they take advantage as the game goes on.

I feel as though the RB's are at a disadvantage. 

 

[BoBo]

I think the entire season was an open audition for the 4 RB's. I agree that now with the second season upon us, we need to select 2 to be our guys, knowing there are capable backups in the wings.  I personally would want to see Moore and Ratliffe, as I don't think Patterson has returned to his pre-injury form and Givens is clearly #4 in the pecking order.

The last time a RB broke off a long one TD run was probably Ryan Givens last year against River Falls. It was nearly 70 yards I remember. Our longest run all season is 39 yards, that's not where we need to be. However, the old crystal ball is currently showing multiple big plays later today from the guys in purple.  Or is that black? Hard to tell!! Time will tell.

[voice]

Just two days separated from my latest Chemotherapy, I'm so excited to be strong enough to be able to be at the Perk today to watch the Warhawks battle Macalester in the playoff opener. I'll be the guy wearing his hall of fame jacket sitting in a wheelchair in the southwest corner of the end zone.

[emma17]

Just two days separated from my latest Chemotherapy, I'm so excited to be strong enough to be able to be at the Perk today to watch the Warhawks battle Macalester in the playoff opener. I'll be the guy wearing his hall of fame jacket sitting in a wheelchair in the southwest corner of the end zone.

That's fantastic Voice. Perfect timing too.
Great comeback.

[voice]

Again this year the NCAA will ban all "noise makers" at D3 playoff games. Again the Warhawk's legendary "Cannon Man" Mike Lesko will be barred from his 20 years of game day duty at Perkins Stadium. In the upper levels of the NCAA cannons, etc. are allowed in the playoffs. As Warhawk football fans we salute you Cannon Man!!

[voice]

Thanks Emma I'm pretty excited!!

[retagent]

I'm hearing that Jake wants to play tomorrow. IMO, the only way it happens in the first round is if playing would not put him at a significantly higher risk of re-injury than when he is healthy.  Does anyone know how that is determined with a high ankle sprain? Is there some sort of strength test?

Let me start by saying I am not a podiatrist, nor have I ever played one on TV. But, I have had multiple high ankle sprains and normal ankle sprains in my younger days hiking and mountain climbing and just plain old walking accidents. High ankle sprains are said to be harder to diagnose because there is a lot less swelling than the normal ankle sprain. But, once a doctor determines it is a high ankle sprain, the first thing they do next is see if the ankle is stable or unstable. Stable is the less severe because the tibia and fibula are generally unaffected.

If it's unstable, at least two, and maybe all 3 of the ligaments are torn, and the tibia and fibula or affected.

I've had the unstable type at least 6 times and it's always been at least 2-3 months, 1 time it took 6 months, to completely heal. The better shape you're in probably reduces the recovery time, I think. I've never had surgery but that is a possibility, too. Doesn't sound like Jake had surgery. Usually it took about a week to reduce the swelling, then another couple weeks to restore the range of motion, flexibility and strength, then finally going back to everyday motions. I got to know my physical therapist quite well with all the time we spent together.

I was always told that once you have a high ankle sprain, you're more susceptble to future sprains - so you have to be really careful in preparation for an activity.  The kind of stuff Jake needs to do to play WR - side to side running, starting and stopping, jumping and landing on his feet, all create high stress on his ankles. I don't know the specifics on Jake's injury and as I said before - "I'm not a doctor" - and the fact that the Warhawks cruise this week without him anyway, I would guess he doesn't play to give it one more week of recuperation time. One bad turn on a nearly healed ankle would take him out of the playoffs for good - IMO it isn't worth the risk using him in this game, then again, I don't know the severity of his injury. But the fact that he's missed three already tells me it was a lot worse than any of us thought seeing him walking off the field under his own power a few weeks ago.

Thanks for the info Bobo. 6 high ankle sprains? Wow! I'm beginning to feel like you have led a slightly more active life than I have. Although I have stubbed my toe on the way to the fridge a couple of times. 

That was good info. I think you, Just Bill, and I are on the same page. I think they have been very cautious all along. I think if any of the last couple of games had been the Stagg Bowl, he would have already played. I think LL is probably saying we don't need to risk it.  The reason I think he would have played is because more than one person (none coaches of course) have said he is coming along really well. One student who knows him pretty well  said "Jake's fine". I think the re-injury thing has been a bigger factor than the condition of the ankle. I think when they turn him loose, he will be doing well.  We just need to pray he doesn't re-injure it. Tape that sucker up good whenever he does come back.

First, I would say get a second opinion!!   

Let me tell you the honest truth, bleed, I've had ACL reconstruction in one knee and currently have a meniscus tear in the other that I'm getting relief with non-invasive treatments, but those ankle sprains, and I've probably had more than 6, those are the ones I had treatment on, are some of the most painful injuries I've ever experienced. It's been a good 15 years since I've had a bad one, but something as simple as stepping on something barefoot in the dark or an uneven sidewalk can get quite scary for me. I'm not a young man anymore, eventhough I try to act like one every time I can. I was really into the outdoor adventure things years ago, but the abuse my body went through has forced me to curtail much of it. No more whitewater canoeing, no more climbing or rapelling, the list goes on and on. 

What are you saying BoBo? Surely you're not an uncoordinated Klutz.

[sju56321]

My uncle has cancer, everyone knows it is a terrible disease, so it is great to see someone well enough to cheer on his team. Good luck and I hope we see you in two weeks. Go Warhawks and Johnnies!

[Caveman # 95]

Put the cannon in the parking lot!!  Everyone will still hear it, and it won't violate the ridiculous NCAA rule!  The cannon is one of the best parts of being at the Perk!!!

[BoBo]

Main page has recaps from the Wesley bracket, the UMHB bracket, and the UMU bracket. 

Seems to be something missing here...can't quite figure out what it could be...

[GBMAN]

I'm ecstatic for you Voice.  That's music to my ears.

[bleedpurple]

Main page has recaps from the Wesley bracket, the UMHB bracket, and the UMU bracket. 

Seems to be something missing here...can't quite figure out what it could be...

I know, D3football really seems to be in a "funk"...