FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[D O.C.]

It was probably their best chance to prepare for the next game.

Yup.

[wesleydad]

I think you were up too long.  You said earlier you went back to bed and missed the second half of the Mount Union Wesley game so I'll help you out a little.  Burke completed 7 passes in the second half before VK pulled him with over 4 minutes to go in 3rd quarter.  Give Wesley some respect here.  The Wolverenes have a reputation of a high scoring team that when they get hot they can put up a lot of points in bunches.  The Wolverines put up 59 on Mount Union last year when Mount failed to deliver the knockout punch.  Multiple Wolverenes offense players have been racking up various D3 honors.  So it was good coaching to try to run time off of the clock and passing is a big part of their offensive package. 

After the last Bruke pass Mount Union pulled their starters and didn't pass another time in the game.  Not one attempt.  Wesley's offense was frustrated and almost score twice in the 3rd quarter, but Mount held them out of the end zone.  In the 4th quarter Wesley kept their starters in an got some satisfaction against Mount's backups by scoring 3 touchdowns.

I did go back to bed at half, but I did record the video during the second half and watched it later. Burke threw a TD pass with 4:10 to go in the third, so I guess threw his last pass with over 4 min left in 3rd is technically correct. But, it doesn't change the matter that the game was over at 56-0 at the half...any reasonable person could have seen that. There was no purpose to keep Burke in the game exposing your franchise player to possible injury. But, if Mount coaches and their fans can't see that and feel their defense can't hold that kind of lead against a beaten opponent, so be it. Congrats for the win, see you Friday.

OK, 4 overlooked factors in the "Mount running up the score" discussion

1) It was the last game at Mount Union stadium for Mount's seniors including Burke - I guarantee it'd be pretty hard to tell those guys they're done at half.
2) you never know what can happen at half time, Yes they should have been comfortable with a 56-0 lead, but at the same time, If I'm Wesley's coach I'm telling my guys, they put up 56 in a half, so can we.
3) Teams like Mount don't get the opportunity to play their full speed offense against a great defense, It was probably their best chance to prepare for the next game.
4) If UWW could have run up the score on Linfield or Wartburg they would have.

Raiderplaybyplay, find that one funny.  There was no great defense on the field wearing white yesterday.  Mount learned nothing from it other than their game plan on offense was much better than Wesley's was on defense.

[BoBo]

I think you were up too long.  You said earlier you went back to bed and missed the second half of the Mount Union Wesley game so I'll help you out a little.  Burke completed 7 passes in the second half before VK pulled him with over 4 minutes to go in 3rd quarter.  Give Wesley some respect here.  The Wolverenes have a reputation of a high scoring team that when they get hot they can put up a lot of points in bunches.  The Wolverines put up 59 on Mount Union last year when Mount failed to deliver the knockout punch.  Multiple Wolverenes offense players have been racking up various D3 honors.  So it was good coaching to try to run time off of the clock and passing is a big part of their offensive package. 

After the last Bruke pass Mount Union pulled their starters and didn't pass another time in the game.  Not one attempt.  Wesley's offense was frustrated and almost score twice in the 3rd quarter, but Mount held them out of the end zone.  In the 4th quarter Wesley kept their starters in an got some satisfaction against Mount's backups by scoring 3 touchdowns.

I did go back to bed at half, but I did record the video during the second half and watched it later. Burke threw a TD pass with 4:10 to go in the third, so I guess threw his last pass with over 4 min left in 3rd is technically correct. But, it doesn't change the matter that the game was over at 56-0 at the half...any reasonable person could have seen that. There was no purpose to keep Burke in the game exposing your franchise player to possible injury. But, if Mount coaches and their fans can't see that and feel their defense can't hold that kind of lead against a beaten opponent, so be it. Congrats for the win, see you Friday.

OK, 4 overlooked factors in the "Mount running up the score" discussion

1) It was the last game at Mount Union stadium for Mount's seniors including Burke - I guarantee it'd be pretty hard to tell those guys they're done at half.
2) you never know what can happen at half time, Yes they should have been comfortable with a 56-0 lead, but at the same time, If I'm Wesley's coach I'm telling my guys, they put up 56 in a half, so can we.
3) Teams like Mount don't get the opportunity to play their full speed offense against a great defense, It was probably their best chance to prepare for the next game.
4) If UWW could have run up the score on Linfield or Wartburg they would have.

We should agree to disagree...because this needs to end already.  I think those four things are a crock of ****, just as you and other think my argument is a crock of **** based on all the -K I've received since yesterday. BTW #3 is the funniest: i.e. great defense? laughable at best.  Going against that defense on Saturday would only prepare you for eating a swiss cheese sandwich...but if it makes you feel good to believe it...whatever....

[Raiderplaybyplay]

I think you were up too long.  You said earlier you went back to bed and missed the second half of the Mount Union Wesley game so I'll help you out a little.  Burke completed 7 passes in the second half before VK pulled him with over 4 minutes to go in 3rd quarter.  Give Wesley some respect here.  The Wolverenes have a reputation of a high scoring team that when they get hot they can put up a lot of points in bunches.  The Wolverines put up 59 on Mount Union last year when Mount failed to deliver the knockout punch.  Multiple Wolverenes offense players have been racking up various D3 honors.  So it was good coaching to try to run time off of the clock and passing is a big part of their offensive package. 

After the last Bruke pass Mount Union pulled their starters and didn't pass another time in the game.  Not one attempt.  Wesley's offense was frustrated and almost score twice in the 3rd quarter, but Mount held them out of the end zone.  In the 4th quarter Wesley kept their starters in an got some satisfaction against Mount's backups by scoring 3 touchdowns.

I did go back to bed at half, but I did record the video during the second half and watched it later. Burke threw a TD pass with 4:10 to go in the third, so I guess threw his last pass with over 4 min left in 3rd is technically correct. But, it doesn't change the matter that the game was over at 56-0 at the half...any reasonable person could have seen that. There was no purpose to keep Burke in the game exposing your franchise player to possible injury. But, if Mount coaches and their fans can't see that and feel their defense can't hold that kind of lead against a beaten opponent, so be it. Congrats for the win, see you Friday.

OK, 4 overlooked factors in the "Mount running up the score" discussion

1) It was the last game at Mount Union stadium for Mount's seniors including Burke - I guarantee it'd be pretty hard to tell those guys they're done at half.
2) you never know what can happen at half time, Yes they should have been comfortable with a 56-0 lead, but at the same time, If I'm Wesley's coach I'm telling my guys, they put up 56 in a half, so can we.
3) Teams like Mount don't get the opportunity to play their full speed offense against a great defense, It was probably their best chance to prepare for the next game.
4) If UWW could have run up the score on Linfield or Wartburg they would have.

We should agree to disagree...because this needs to end already.  I think those four things are a crock of ****, just as you and other think my argument is a crock of **** based on all the -K I've received since yesterday. BTW #3 is the funniest: i.e. great defense? laughable at best.  Going against that defense on Saturday would only prepare you for eating a swiss cheese sandwich...but if it makes you feel good to believe it...whatever....

Well, it was a defense that had only given up 20 points in 3 playoff games until that point. They were fast, physical and experienced. Maybe not as good as JCU, but probably the best Mount had seen in the playoffs besides the blue streaks.

But clearly you're not gonna accept any defense of Mount Union's "poor sportsmanship." Fine. The bottom line is nobody needs to apologize for any margin of victory in the playoffs, it's big boy football time. No team has the responsibility to ease off the gas at this point.

[Dr. Acula]

I had a chance to watch the UWW game today.  I was impressed by both Linfield and UWW.  Very good game.  Linfield should be a force to reckon with next year. Congrats to the Warhawks on the return trip Salem.  LL trying to go out on top.  Mount trying to get VK his first title.  Should be a good one!  Safe travels to anyone headed to VA.

And my condolences to bleedpurple. Very sorry to read the news.  I lost my dad last year and I still miss him every day.  I trust that like me you have countless great memories of him.  I hope they comfort you and your family as they have me.  Again, very sorry for your loss.

[rlk]

OK, 4 overlooked factors in the "Mount running up the score" discussion

1) It was the last game at Mount Union stadium for Mount's seniors including Burke - I guarantee it'd be pretty hard to tell those guys they're done at half.
2) you never know what can happen at half time, Yes they should have been comfortable with a 56-0 lead, but at the same time, If I'm Wesley's coach I'm telling my guys, they put up 56 in a half, so can we.
3) Teams like Mount don't get the opportunity to play their full speed offense against a great defense, It was probably their best chance to prepare for the next game.
4) If UWW could have run up the score on Linfield or Wartburg they would have.

Raiderplaybyplay, find that one funny.  There was no great defense on the field wearing white yesterday.  Mount learned nothing from it other than their game plan on offense was much better than Wesley's was on defense.

Either there's an even wider difference between the very top of D3 than I thought, or your folks just had a collectively very bad day, but certainly MIT, and I doubt very much either Hobart or Hampden-Sydney, think of Wesley's defense as being weak.  The first half was the first half, but Mount Union had every reason to expect that you'd make adjustments for the second half and come out gunning.  A team that played even with a halfway decent FCS team is one deserving of respect (not to mention your comeback last year).

Don't go all bitter because of one disastrous game, even if it is the national semifinal.  I can guarantee you that there were 7 other teams in the bracket on November 16 who would have jumped at the opportunity to get hammered even worse by Mount Union in the semifinal.  This is Division III, where we take things seriously but have fun in the process.  Even when it comes to the stompers asking the stompees in the handshake line if they'd be willing to take their resumes 

[Craft_Beermeister]

Back in early 2000s Bob Berezowitz reached out to Larry Kehres in an attempt to see what could be done to get Whitewter's football program up to the elite level for D3.  Berezowitz is a smart man and he knew that the best way to get to elite status was to try to play like the elite teams and to try to measure his team against an elite program.  Mount Union works hard to try to schedule a strong nonconference opening week game each year and Kehres agreed back then to a home and away series with Whitewater.  Those games took place a few years later in 2002 and 2003.  Mount wins both games fairly handily, but Berezowitz got his measuring stick.

After the home and away series Berezowitz  has a clearer understanding at what it takes and he pushes his organization to higher levels.  In 2005 Berezowitz  leads his team to a Stagg Bowl appearance where he gets beat by his mentor Kehres, but he has gotten his team to elite status.  The Warhawks come back the next year with a lot of confidence and make it back to the Stagg Bowl only to lose again to Mount Union.
 
Berezowitz retires in 2007 and Leipold inherits the elite team.   Leipold coaches his team to a Stagg Bowl win over Mount Union in his first year.  Leipold does more than just maintain what he inherited from Berezowitz, but continues to build the program resulting in Whitewater wining 5 national championships compared to the 4 that Mount Union won since Whitewater made it to D3 elite status in 2005.

Both elite programs, Mount Union & Whitewater, push each other to continue to get better, but unfortunately for the rest of D3 in doing so they pull ahead competitively of  some well known D3 teams.  In doing so both teams receive a significant amount of criticism  from many followers of D3football who complain about the same two playing each other year after year.   I'm not saying that these two programs are the only elite programs in D3, but they are the only two that have stayed at the top for a long extended time.

In any event the two best teams made it to the Stagg Bowl this year and neither team needs to apologize for being elite year after year.  This year's game should be another great game.

With Leipold moving on what will Whitewater have to do to continue to maintain elite status?  Who will they consult with??

[Redtooth]

Back in early 2000s Bob Berezowitz reached out to Larry Kehres in an attempt to see what could be done to get Whitewter's football program up to the elite level for D3.  Berezowitz is a smart man and he knew that the best way to get to elite status was to try to play like the elite teams and to try to measure his team against an elite program.  Mount Union works hard to try to schedule a strong nonconference opening week game each year and Kehres agreed back then to a home and away series with Whitewater.  Those games took place a few years later in 2002 and 2003.  Mount wins both games fairly handily, but Berezowitz got his measuring stick.

After the home and away series Berezowitz  has a clearer understanding at what it takes and he pushes his organization to higher levels.  In 2005 Berezowitz  leads his team to a Stagg Bowl appearance where he gets beat by his mentor Kehres, but he has gotten his team to elite status.  The Warhawks come back the next year with a lot of confidence and make it back to the Stagg Bowl only to lose again to Mount Union.
 
Berezowitz retires in 2007 and Leipold inherits the elite team.   Leipold coaches his team to a Stagg Bowl win over Mount Union in his first year.  Leipold does more than just maintain what he inherited from Berezowitz, but continues to build the program resulting in Whitewater wining 5 national championships compared to the 4 that Mount Union won since Whitewater made it to D3 elite status in 2005.

Both elite programs, Mount Union & Whitewater, push each other to continue to get better, but unfortunately for the rest of D3 in doing so they pull ahead competitively of  some well known D3 teams.  In doing so both teams receive a significant amount of criticism  from many followers of D3football who complain about the same two playing each other year after year.   I'm not saying that these two programs are the only elite programs in D3, but they are the only two that have stayed at the top for a long extended time.

In any event the two best teams made it to the Stagg Bowl this year and neither team needs to apologize for being elite year after year.  This year's game should be another great game.

With Leipold moving on what will Whitewater have to do to continue to maintain elite status?  Who will they consult with??

Great post Craft.....The only thing I would add is in the first year (2002) that BBerez did the "measuring stick tour" he also brought WW to SJU the week after playing Mount Union.  Late in the second quarter, we went for it on 4th down and had our starting QB (Ryan Keating) crushed from the front and back....broke his arm in 14 places (surgery that night---had a plate and screws installed).  We were forced to have our backup, Ross Denne, shift from TE (where he was starting) to QB.  We won the game handily 42-18.... But damn they were physical.  We ended up losing to Trinity in the semis later that season and had Keating come back the following year to lead us to the Stagg and our win against Mount Union.

[Pat Coleman]

The bottom line is nobody needs to apologize for any margin of victory in the playoffs, it's big boy football time. No team has the responsibility to ease off the gas at this point.

This. Especially in the quarters and semis.

[02 Warhawk]

  I'm not saying that these two programs are the only elite programs in D3, but they are the only two that have stayed at the top for a long extended time.

In any event the two best teams made it to the Stagg Bowl this year and neither team needs to apologize for being elite year after year.  This year's game should be another great game.

With Leipold moving on what will Whitewater have to do to continue to maintain elite status?  Who will they consult with??

The only two? I would say no. But I will say UWW and UMU are head and shoulders above the next "tier" of elite D3 teams. It'll be tough to argue against that considering the past decade of stagg bowl matchups.

If it was just Lance leaving, I would think UWW would be alright because his staff would still be able to recruit and develop great athletes. However, since Lance AND four additional key assistant coaches are leaving.....that's a little cause for concern in UWW nation.

From what I hear, there's no shortage of coaches looking to take Lance's and his assistance's place. Time will tell what the next era of UWW football will bring.

[WarhawkDad]

To Bleedpurple

Deeply saddened to learn of the passing of your father. I had the pleasure of meeting him several times and he was a gentleman and his love for UWW and the Warhawks was immeasurable.  He layed the foundation for the success of the program and the "Perk" is appropriately named.  My deepest condolences to you and your family.  The entire Warhawks Nation mourns his passing.

WarhawkDad

[bleedpurple]

To Bleedpurple

Deeply saddened to learn of the passing of your father. I had the pleasure of meeting him several times and he was a gentleman and his love for UWW and the Warhawks was immeasurable.  He layed the foundation for the success of the program and the "Perk" is appropriately named.  My deepest condolences to you and your family.  The entire Warhawks Nation mourns his passing.

WarhawkDad

WD, Redtooth, and Dr. Acula,

Thank you so much for your kind and gracious words. They mean a lot. And I'm very sorry for your loss Dr. Acula. I know there's no expiration date on missing a dad. I'm glad you have great memories of him to comfort you. I know those special memories will be a blessing for sure.

[voice]

Jay (BleedPurple):

I too offer condolences on the loss of your Dad.  My life over the past 25+ years has involved Warhawk football. His life was dedicated to UW-Whitewater and its football program which I admire. The current success of the program is built on the tradition set forth by your father.  From one diehard Whitewater football fan I say a heartfelt thank you to your dad on his devotion to UW-Whitewater athletics. He will be missed. RIP

[BoBo]

Note to emma17:

Did you see that Marian (Ind.) is playing Southern Oregon for the NAIA Championship on Friday? Marian beat Oshkosh 24-20 the second week of the season and Oshkosh basically had the game won, but Marian went 75 yards in :43 in 4 plays to score with 1 second remaining. Just an interesting fact...Oshkosh was good this year. 

[wesleydad]

Bleedpurple, sorry to hear about your loss.  Prayers to you and your family.