FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[jknezek]

First trip to Salem, should we buy tickets on line or just wait until we  get there?  Looking forward to the game and a new ring for the Warhawks.

The trip is worth it once (I went last year) but once you get back to WW you'll never want to go on that bus again. 

I have a couple of options on getting to the game, but the bus is my last resort. Hope it doesn't come to that though.

I suppose riding in a car isn't much better.

Bus will be 14+ hours given stops and lower speeds. A car will shave at least two hours off of that, more depending on your stops. My family tends to take longer trips in our motor home. Very convenient with small kids. But I'm keenly aware of how much longer it takes to go each 100 miles at 64 mph versus 79mph...

[KitchenSink]

Did the bus in 2006 (quiet ride home) and in 2013 (very boisterous).  If you can sleep as much time away as possible, it's not that bad.  I like to drive, but a thousand miles out and a thousand back in 2 or 3 days is a lot.

[MasterJedi]

Did the bus in 2006 (quiet ride home) and in 2013 (very boisterous).  If you can sleep as much time away as possible, it's not that bad.  I like to drive, but a thousand miles out and a thousand back in 2 or 3 days is a lot.

16.5 hours there and 16.5 hours back is brutal, especially in less then 2 full whole days.

[NewHawk]

Definitely driving, we couldn't get a room at the Doubletree so we had to pick another hotel nearby. looks like it is about 12 hrs from me in the Chicago burbs. I don't think we will make it back in time for the victory parade in Whitewater.

[umhb2001]

Rooting for the Warhawks this Friday! As you were in our half of the bracket, more power to you! Get one more for the Gipper!

[emma17]

Not everybody enjoys car rides so I get the apprehension about taking the long trip.
My own experiences at the Stagg Bowl leave me with the same mindset- I'd do it again in a heartbeat.
The atmosphere is amazing (I prefer the night games too), the electricity and anticipation are thick in the air for hours before and during the game.
For me and my family thankfully, the long car ride is part and parcel to the fantastic weekend event.
I hope anyone sitting on the fence about going will answer that calling and hit the road.

By the way, I get the idea of worrying "what if UWW plays poorly or can't hang w the Purple Raiders" as it relates to the risk of taking making long drive.
I had that feeling in spades when we made our first trip in 2007. There was nothing long about the trip home. 

[WarhawkDad]

They are excellent in their own conferences, but when have any of them got past the quarter-finals.   I do not think you can measure a defense on a national level until it has played against a top 5 team.

I mean, I agree that being a "great" offense and defense means something different against most of the country than it does against the big 5-6 teams, but using your criteria means we literally cannot evaluate 2/3 of the teams in Division III. Ever.

Here's something you may not realize: For 98% of the teams in D-III football, how they are in their own conference and in the first two rounds matters. They're not in the "national championship or bust" bus with you guys. Wesley may consider the season a disappointment because this was possibly their best team ever and Mount curb-stomped them. I can almost guarantee you that MIT is not going to suddenly downgrade how they feel about their best-ever team because Wesley did the same to them.

See, that's the nice thing about being a fan of one of the 98%. There's a lot more enjoyment of the stuff some of you guys take for granted. Having the best defense in your conference, which helps you win your conference, is great, because we don't view conference titles and playoff bids as a birthright and the regular season like some absurd two-month warmup. (I know the WIAC is a fantastic, challenging conference. I'm talking more about Mount with that part). Sure, it doesn't lead to titles. But it also doesn't reduce the season to a 1-2 game sample, and that's awesome.

Bombers

I do not disagree with your comments, but we are not in the middle of the regular season now.  We are in the playoffs and the discussion was related to Wesley's defense in relation to the national stage.    The post I was responding to validated the Wesley defense based upon the results against MIT, Hampton-Sydney and Hobart.   And, my point solely has to do with the issue of the Wesley defense in relation to the teams they played (above) and then what happened against Mount Union.     On the national stage, in the playoffs, no matter how good you are in your conference and region, until you have played a national contender and performed at the same high level, the results you had in conference mean very little from a comparison standpoint.

WHD

Here's where I think I got a bit...rankled. I know this was in response to a specific post about Wesley and Mount, and you're using the comparisons you have based on the games that have been played. But you know what I got from reading that? That for teams like Wesley, Mount,  Whitewater, and the other powers, the games against everyone else provide nothing of value. It's not just that you don't lose to us, it's you feel you can't even take any lessons from playing us. We're just the 11/12/13 game preview you have to sit through before the main attraction.

And regardless of whether or not that's true for you guys, it's kind of annoying to hear fans of these elite 4-5 teams be so dismissive to the rest of us. Hobart's performance does mean a lot, to a lot of people, and a lot of teams. So does MIT's, and Hampden Sydney's. It's not all just noise because a specific 4-5 teams can't use it for "comparative" purposes. They may dominate the sport, but we don't have to run every other team through the Mount/UWW/Linfield/MHB/Wesley equation to glean information about how good they are.

I am reacting to a specific quote and you are turning it into a gross generalization.    Like I said there is a tremendous difference between regular season and the playoffs and moving forward in the playoffs.   This does not change from the NAIA, to DIII to DI or any level.     

I never said that the performances of every single team across football is not important to the fans of that team and the schools those team represent.   And every game for every team has value, absolutely, but if you are measuring yourself on the national level for the playoffs, you can not say that a team has an elite defense if that has not be proven against an elite team.   

Look I lived for years in Hiram Ohio (my Dad was a professor) and I know how important every success can be.  I am talking purely about a nationally valid measuring stick.

[bleedpurple]

"A Celebration of Forrest Perkins' Life"

Sunday, December 21, 2014

Held in the Hamilton Room, University Center, UW-Whitewater campus

11 AM - 4 PM Visitation

4 PM Memorial Service

5 PM Refreshments and an opportunity to share with a "live mic". No formal program to this part. People can just stop in for a few minutes and then take off or they can stay for awhile.

In lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the Warhawk Football Endowment Foundation, and can be mailed to:

Bob Berezowitz
UW-Whitewater Student-Athlete Complex
800 W. Main St.
Whitewater, WI 53190

[Craft_Beermeister]

The bottom line is nobody needs to apologize for any margin of victory in the playoffs, it's big boy football time. No team has the responsibility to ease off the gas at this point.

This. Especially in the quarters and semis.

Ok,  I have stayed out of the, "Mount ran up the score," debate and I learned loooong ago to stay away from your posts, Pat, because you have forgotten more about football than I will ever know but........here goes anyway    And disclaimer: I have not seen any of the game but have talked with others that have.

   To me, it is not about easing off on the gas as much as it is, making smart coaching choices.   It is about not leaving your senior, Gagliardi award winning, star quarterback, in the game one drive longer than neccesary to preserve a victory!!   It is about protecting him and your starters for the next weeks game.  I remember in 06, I think, when our staff received a ton of criticism for leaving Beaver in a game, allowing him to break his collarbone, when the game appeared to be well in hand for the Warhawks.  The notion that VK feared that they could not hold a 59-0 lead at halftime, regardless of the final score of the last couple of meetings between these two teams is kind of silly to me.   From everything I have heard, the Wolverines had the look and attitude of defeat well before those were the numbers on the scoreboard.   I guess one always has to be wary of an opponents halftime adjustments but both teams make those and starters can always be put back in the game at any time.   I won't speculate on the reasoning for the choice, just that the first priority for any staff should be to protect a teams assets, IMHO, first and foremost, while preserving the win.  When that is the goal, rarely does one see a final score that out of whack.

I would say this: It's not just about making sure you win this game, but the next one. Mount Union's starters have played in the fourth quarter twice all season so for them to play 40 minutes on Saturday doesn't seem out of line heading into the national championship game.

I agree with Pat.  Too much is being made of this.  What is wrong with trying to polish a well running machine getting them ready for the finish.  One can try to argue with trying  to get the Mount Union's offense a proper and good workout is a response to getting ready for competeing with Whitewater as part of the respect Mount Union has for Whitewater.  I would think many of the Whitewater fans would appreciate a team that has respect for Whitewater and prepares accordingly.

[Craft_Beermeister]

  I'm not saying that these two programs are the only elite programs in D3, but they are the only two that have stayed at the top for a long extended time.

In any event the two best teams made it to the Stagg Bowl this year and neither team needs to apologize for being elite year after year.  This year's game should be another great game.

With Leipold moving on what will Whitewater have to do to continue to maintain elite status?  Who will they consult with??

The only two? I would say no. But I will say UWW and UMU are head and shoulders above the next "tier" of elite D3 teams. It'll be tough to argue against that considering the past decade of stagg bowl matchups.

If it was just Lance leaving, I would think UWW would be alright because his staff would still be able to recruit and develop great athletes. However, since Lance AND four additional key assistant coaches are leaving.....that's a little cause for concern in UWW nation.

From what I hear, there's no shortage of coaches looking to take Lance's and his assistance's place. Time will tell what the next era of UWW football will bring.

From what I hear one might be surprised.

[Craft_Beermeister]

To Bleedpurple

Deeply saddened to learn of the passing of your father. I had the pleasure of meeting him several times and he was a gentleman and his love for UWW and the Warhawks was immeasurable.  He layed the foundation for the success of the program and the "Perk" is appropriately named.  My deepest condolences to you and your family.  The entire Warhawks Nation mourns his passing.

WarhawkDad

It is always sad to hear the passing of a good man.  My prayers to the family.

[Craft_Beermeister]

With Leipold moving on what will Whitewater have to do to continue to maintain elite status?  Who will they consult with??

It's simple, all they need to do is consult with themselves. I'm sure they have good data how this whole thing came about and how to maintain it.

Wait and see.

[Craft_Beermeister]

  I'm not saying that these two programs are the only elite programs in D3, but they are the only two that have stayed at the top for a long extended time.

In any event the two best teams made it to the Stagg Bowl this year and neither team needs to apologize for being elite year after year.  This year's game should be another great game.

With Leipold moving on what will Whitewater have to do to continue to maintain elite status?  Who will they consult with??

The only two? I would say no. But I will say UWW and UMU are head and shoulders above the next "tier" of elite D3 teams. It'll be tough to argue against that considering the past decade of stagg bowl matchups.

If it was just Lance leaving, I would think UWW would be alright because his staff would still be able to recruit and develop great athletes. However, since Lance AND four additional key assistant coaches are leaving.....that's a little cause for concern in UWW nation.

From what I hear, there's no shortage of coaches looking to take Lance's and his assistance's place. Time will tell what the next era of UWW football will bring.

Note to emma17:


Did you see that Marian (Ind.) is playing Southern Oregon for the NAIA Championship on Friday? Marian beat Oshkosh 24-20 the second week of the season and Oshkosh basically had the game won, but Marian went 75 yards in :43 in 4 plays to score with 1 second remaining. Just an interesting fact...Oshkosh was good this year. 

I wouldn't say "head and shoulders". Maybe eyes and hair. It's hard to argue about them being better, but BoBo is right (that hurt to say ) Oshkosh was a hair away from beating UWW. Linfield and Wartburg could both have won their games against UWW. Had Sura not gotten hurt, SJU might have beaten Wartburg. Wilamette beat Linfield, Concordia beat SJU. St Thomas took Wartburg to the edge.

There are a number of teams that are close to that upper two tier, but until someone beats the mighty Mount or UWW, they can't claim equality.

Yep Oshkosh missed out on the coach they sought out.

[MasterJedi]

With Leipold moving on what will Whitewater have to do to continue to maintain elite status?  Who will they consult with??

It's simple, all they need to do is consult with themselves. I'm sure they have good data how this whole thing came about and how to maintain it.

Wait and see.

It appears as if you know something good sir....hmmmmm

[Craft_Beermeister]

They are excellent in their own conferences, but when have any of them got past the quarter-finals.   I do not think you can measure a defense on a national level until it has played against a top 5 team.

I mean, I agree that being a "great" offense and defense means something different against most of the country than it does against the big 5-6 teams, but using your criteria means we literally cannot evaluate 2/3 of the teams in Division III. Ever.

Here's something you may not realize: For 98% of the teams in D-III football, how they are in their own conference and in the first two rounds matters. They're not in the "national championship or bust" bus with you guys. Wesley may consider the season a disappointment because this was possibly their best team ever and Mount curb-stomped them. I can almost guarantee you that MIT is not going to suddenly downgrade how they feel about their best-ever team because Wesley did the same to them.

See, that's the nice thing about being a fan of one of the 98%. There's a lot more enjoyment of the stuff some of you guys take for granted. Having the best defense in your conference, which helps you win your conference, is great, because we don't view conference titles and playoff bids as a birthright and the regular season like some absurd two-month warmup. (I know the WIAC is a fantastic, challenging conference. I'm talking more about Mount with that part). Sure, it doesn't lead to titles. But it also doesn't reduce the season to a 1-2 game sample, and that's awesome.

Bombers

I do not disagree with your comments, but we are not in the middle of the regular season now.  We are in the playoffs and the discussion was related to Wesley's defense in relation to the national stage.    The post I was responding to validated the Wesley defense based upon the results against MIT, Hampton-Sydney and Hobart.   And, my point solely has to do with the issue of the Wesley defense in relation to the teams they played (above) and then what happened against Mount Union.     On the national stage, in the playoffs, no matter how good you are in your conference and region, until you have played a national contender and performed at the same high level, the results you had in conference mean very little from a comparison standpoint.

WHD

Here's where I think I got a bit...rankled. I know this was in response to a specific post about Wesley and Mount, and you're using the comparisons you have based on the games that have been played. But you know what I got from reading that? That for teams like Wesley, Mount,  Whitewater, and the other powers, the games against everyone else provide nothing of value. It's not just that you don't lose to us, it's you feel you can't even take any lessons from playing us. We're just the 11/12/13 game preview you have to sit through before the main attraction.

And regardless of whether or not that's true for you guys, it's kind of annoying to hear fans of these elite 4-5 teams be so dismissive to the rest of us. Hobart's performance does mean a lot, to a lot of people, and a lot of teams. So does MIT's, and Hampden Sydney's. It's not all just noise because a specific 4-5 teams can't use it for "comparative" purposes. They may dominate the sport, but we don't have to run every other team through the Mount/UWW/Linfield/MHB/Wesley equation to glean information about how good they are.

Bombers

I hope that I didn't contribute to your feeling that many good D3 football teams don't get the respect they deserve.  I posted the earlier thread illustrating how Whitewater studied Mount Union and used the Raiders organization as a role model. Scheduling Mount Union to a home and away series, sending their coaches to as many Mount Union camps as they could afford and in doing so made it to the top of D3.  To Whitewaters credit they leveraged what they learned to manage to stay at the top level of D3 and even was able in recent games to manage to get an upper hand on the team they tried so hard to emulate. 

I in an earlier post referenced Mount Union and Whitewater as being elite teams because of their recent accomplishments and staying at the top of D3 expect the one year Whitewater stumbled and failed to reload.  I don't think anyone can deny these two teams are elite, but these aren't the only good teams in D3, far from it. 

Amount Union and Whitewater might currently be on top and though staying on top for multiple years is a great accomplishment there are a lot of D3 teams that their fans should be very proud of.  To get to the top teams need to keep improving and many D3 teams are improving.  No one is denying this.  We all need to keep in mind young kids play these games, which is a game that most of us on these boards wish we could still play but we can't.  We all should always support the effort these players put out. 

During the weeks leading up to the Stagg Bowl and particularly this week the many fans of Whitewater and Mount Union tend to get a bit feisty and often pump out their chest.  This feistyness and our back and forth banter should not be judged as any intent to belittle the other D3 teams.  I apologize for myself and for others on these boards if we come across as not caring about other D3 teams becuase we do care about D3 football.  We believe that D3 football is the most entertaining form of football in all of college.  We have respect of all D3 football players that give their all ot effort.  Sorry if we don't always come across that way.