FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[bleedpurple]

I think the Raeburn vs Bullis discussion is a good one. I've read some good points and counter points.  I will go against the grain on this and say I am not at all unhappy with mix of this list.  I don't know the candidates personally so I can't proclaim this to be a "good" or "bad" list.  But the mix works for me. Two proven D-III head coaches. Two 30-something guys who are probably considered to be "up and coming" in the coaching field. And Coach Bullis. Personally, I would be surprised if KB doesn't get the job. Right man for the right job at the right time, IMO. But as Coach Bullis himself said at the Buffalo coaches' sendoff, "The best candidate will get the job and that's the way it should be."

[emma17]

I think Raeburn ran the QB platoon, because the talent he had dictated it. Same with the run option. Recruiting to a program like Wabash is different than a big state school. I would be very surprised to see much of a philosophical change at UWW if Raeburn gets the job. The NC pretty much prove you win in the trenches. Why change a good thing.
Its not like Raeburn will suddenly say, "to heck with these big linemen, I am going to recruit small and fast."

I'll buy part of that but not all. Something went wrong somewhere along the lines of the QB development for them to end up w 2 platoon.  Spread offense wasn't the only option for Wabash.

Even Leipold couldn't come up with a quality quarterback every year he was at Whitewater, emma.

That's right, and he acknowledged the error in his ways when he said one of the reasons for the failure of the 2012 squad was the coaching failure to develop enough underclassman.  To his credit, what he didn't do is 2 platoon the QB position. 
And also to his credit, UWW has won 6 championships with 5 QB's- all brought in by LL.

[emma17]

In considering those that have posted surprise in the lack of star power of the candidates, I ask:
1.  Do we know who applied but didn't make the final 5?
2.  Why did some people expect to see higher division coaching candidates?  I understand LL came from a higher division, however, he came to his alma mater.  That's probably a little different.  I'm curious why some feel other higher division coaches would apply at D3 UWW.

[dachampishere]

Jeff Donovan was recruited by Bob Berezowitz and his staff so Lance Leipold did not recruit all of the quarterbacks that helped him win the national titles.
I am glad to see that coach Bullis has a good attitude about the whole situation. As I recall the last time this position was open there was a UWW assistant who believed that he should have been given the job on a golden platter as he in his own words" Had been the head coach for the past 15-16 years" since he had joined the staff, and then cried like a lil baby when he didn't get the job.
As an alum of the University that was embarrassing then and still is, and I am glad that the current UWW assistant Bullis up for the job isn't going to act like that.
As for Emma's question I guess the only way we will ever know who else applied for the job is that one of the local papers or someone else does a public records request and the athletic department releases all of the applicants that they didn't pick for an interview.
I am not sure why people thought some higher division coaches would apply for a division three job unless it is because where the program is with six national titles in eight years, and where the program could go from here. Mount Union status.
As I have said before two weeks from now we should know who the new head football coach is going to be and as Lance Leipold said at his going away party we need to support that person just like we have him and the coaches before him. Will there be changes yes, will everyone like them NO. However sometimes change is a good thing and the group of players I spoke with at Lance's going away party realized that some change was going to happen and they were open to it. The one thing they don't want to change is the program's motto of "Pound the Rock" Which from what I got the players totally love and it means something special to them.

[ExTartanPlayer]

In considering those that have posted surprise in the lack of star power of the candidates, I ask:
1.  Do we know who applied but didn't make the final 5?
2.  Why did some people expect to see higher division coaching candidates?  I understand LL came from a higher division, however, he came to his alma mater.  That's probably a little different.  I'm curious why some feel other higher division coaches would apply at D3 UWW.

Since I've mentioned higher-division candidates a few times I will chime in...

Admittedly I don't know exactly what most D2 head coaches and coordinators make, but given the UWW commitment to athletics and the number given for Leipold's salary, I will hazard the guess that most would not be taking a significant pay cut (or any pay cut) were they hired at UWW. I thought the attraction of the opportunity to drive the Cadillac of D3 football programs might appeal to an up-and-comer somewhere in the D2/FCS ranks, most likely a coordinator who saw this as a chance to captain his own program, win a couple titles (not that this is easy), and mayb recreate Lance's movement of multiple D3 national titles = a chance to move back up in division as a head man. Obviously a coaching searches are conducted differently but presumably there are some places that will not consider you without HC experience - so someone might decide that the chance to break into the HC ranks was worth stepping "down" a division because it would give them that precious HC on their resume.

Not sayin any of this is good or bad, right or wrong, whatever. Just saying that I expected to see one of this type on the list.

I do agree with whoever said above that the conposition of the list of finalists makes sense. I posted the same on the NCAC board. You hav a WIAC guy, an internal candidate, one high-achieving D3 head man, another respectable D3 head man, and the dude from Urbana (admittedly the one I know least about). All of that makes sense. I guess I expected the last guy to have a bit beefier resume, since he's our token non-D3 guy.

[footballfan413]

I think Raeburn ran the QB platoon, because the talent he had dictated it. Same with the run option. Recruiting to a program like Wabash is different than a big state school. I would be very surprised to see much of a philosophical change at UWW if Raeburn gets the job. The NC pretty much prove you win in the trenches. Why change a good thing.
Its not like Raeburn will suddenly say, "to heck with these big linemen, I am going to recruit small and fast."

I'll buy part of that but not all. Something went wrong somewhere along the lines of the QB development for them to end up w 2 platoon.  Spread offense wasn't the only option for Wabash.

Even Leipold couldn't come up with a quality quarterback every year he was at Whitewater, emma.

That's right, and he acknowledged the error in his ways when he said one of the reasons for the failure of the 2012 squad was the coaching failure to develop enough underclassman.  To his credit, what he didn't do is 2 platoon the QB position. 
And also to his credit, UWW has won 6 championships with 5 QB's- all brought in by LL.

As mentioned before, Jeff was not brought in by LL nor was Danny Jones.  Danny brought himself in, the result of watching the Hawks on ESPN for two years and knowing we graduated Jacobs.   Lance gets credit for answering the phone, I guess,  but Danny fell into his lap.   

The same goes for Matt Blanchard. 

[footballfan413]

Raeburn is a big name on that list.

He's the only one. That's a bad list.

I kinda agree.  Expected to be more wow'ed than I am, at least at first blush.

My comment made no reference to being disappointed because I expected more names from upper levels, but that would have been nice.    I mentioned that my reaction was, "first blush," because it was exactly that.  Had just read the list, it was my immediate reaction.  As ETP mentioned, I really expected to see a beefier resume from any upper level candidate, as I would argue, a program with our success, while D3, would not be a step down from many mid level D-2 programs.  Plus, I just thought we'd see a name on the list that would be more of a surprise, given all the talk I heard in the parking lot.  

And a candidate from Ohio Northern doesn't make me do cartwheels, either, given their up and down record the last ten years. 

 

[emma17]

I think Raeburn ran the QB platoon, because the talent he had dictated it. Same with the run option. Recruiting to a program like Wabash is different than a big state school. I would be very surprised to see much of a philosophical change at UWW if Raeburn gets the job. The NC pretty much prove you win in the trenches. Why change a good thing.
Its not like Raeburn will suddenly say, "to heck with these big linemen, I am going to recruit small and fast."

I'll buy part of that but not all. Something went wrong somewhere along the lines of the QB development for them to end up w 2 platoon.  Spread offense wasn't the only option for Wabash.

Even Leipold couldn't come up with a quality quarterback every year he was at Whitewater, emma.

That's right, and he acknowledged the error in his ways when he said one of the reasons for the failure of the 2012 squad was the coaching failure to develop enough underclassman.  To his credit, what he didn't do is 2 platoon the QB position. 
And also to his credit, UWW has won 6 championships with 5 QB's- all brought in by LL.

As mentioned before, Jeff was not brought in by LL nor was Danny Jones.  Danny brought himself in, the result of watching the Hawks on ESPN for two years and knowing we graduated Jacobs.   Lance gets credit for answering the phone, I guess,  but Danny fell into his lap.   

The same goes for Matt Blanchard.

The fact that Jeff was recruited by Brez doesn't diminish the point about LL and how he's handled QB's. You may feel LL deserves no credit for Danny Jones, but I see it entirely different. The same for Blanchard. And the same for every other good/great player that decided to transfer to UWW since LL has been there. LL gets much of that credit whether it sits well with you or not.

[footballfan413]

I think Raeburn ran the QB platoon, because the talent he had dictated it. Same with the run option. Recruiting to a program like Wabash is different than a big state school. I would be very surprised to see much of a philosophical change at UWW if Raeburn gets the job. The NC pretty much prove you win in the trenches. Why change a good thing.
Its not like Raeburn will suddenly say, "to heck with these big linemen, I am going to recruit small and fast."

I'll buy part of that but not all. Something went wrong somewhere along the lines of the QB development for them to end up w 2 platoon.  Spread offense wasn't the only option for Wabash.

Even Leipold couldn't come up with a quality quarterback every year he was at Whitewater, emma.

That's right, and he acknowledged the error in his ways when he said one of the reasons for the failure of the 2012 squad was the coaching failure to develop enough underclassman.  To his credit, what he didn't do is 2 platoon the QB position. 
And also to his credit, UWW has won 6 championships with 5 QB's- all brought in by LL.

As mentioned before, Jeff was not brought in by LL nor was Danny Jones.  Danny brought himself in, the result of watching the Hawks on ESPN for two years and knowing we graduated Jacobs.   Lance gets credit for answering the phone, I guess,  but Danny fell into his lap.   

The same goes for Matt Blanchard.

The fact that Jeff was recruited by Brez doesn't diminish the point about LL and how he's handled QB's. You may feel LL deserves no credit for Danny Jones, but I see it entirely different. The same for Blanchard. And the same for every other good/great player that decided to transfer to UWW since LL has been there. LL gets much of that credit whether it sits well with you or not.

Emma, read your comment, the one I responded to.  "And also to his credit, UWW has won 6 championships with 5 QB's- all brought in by LL." You didn't mention, "developed."  You said, "brought in."
  The fact is, he did not bring in Donavon, Jones or Blanchard!  Jeff was a WARHARK before Lance arrived.  Danny and Matt came because of our national success as transfers!  I have a personal relationship with both Danny, Matt and their families, as you know.  Danny came to Whitewater because of the fact that we had played for several national championships, and he knew our QB graduated, period.  Matt came because: 1.  He wasn't enjoying the kind of success he envisioned at Eastern Michigan.  2. He wanted to win rings, like his older brother , but did not want to go to Mount Union and be Derrick's younger brother and 3.  Whitewater is an hour and a half from his home. They called Whitewater, Whitewater did not call them.  It's an important distinction.      Look, I get that you have history with LL and in my mind, that makes you biased.  I have a different history with LL and that history makes me biased, as well.  I will cop to the fact that I may not give him enough credit, at times.  Will you cop to the fact that you are guilty of giving him too much credit some times?  I responded to your original statement.  He did not bring in the 5 QB's that we won 6 championships with!   And oh, BTW, do you give any credit for the QB play, to the QB's themselves,  or the offensive coordinators and position coaches during the 8 year run?  Our success since 05, comes down to a lot more than just what Lance has contributed, and he would be the first to agree with me, I believe. He captained the ship beautifully, but to say he gets much of the credit for every good/great player to transfer to UWW, and not give credit to the player's ability, the rest of the coaching staff, the program itself and it's success that began several years before he even became HC, is just silly, IMHO. 

[BoBo]

They called Whitewater, Whitewater did not call them.  It's an important distinction.

fbf413, I would imagine the player always initiating contact in a transfer situation...100% of the time.  I can't see LL calling Northern Michigan (it was NMU not EMU, right?) and asking if their redshirting, freshman QB was interested in transferring closer to home or calling California and telling Danny Jones that his QB is graduating and would he be interested in transferring to Whitewater...that he had a place for him on the roster. The fact that LL didn't initiate contact isn't really that crucial. Is that a more important distinction?  Once the player begins to indicate interest, then the wheels go in motion and the head coach gets involved. I'd argue that a transfer usually always just falls into your lap. But you can't expect to put the cart before the horse, can you? Thoughts?

[footballfan413]

They called Whitewater, Whitewater did not call them.  It's an important distinction.

fbf413, I would imagine the player always initiating contact in a transfer situation...100% of the time.  I can't see LL calling Northern Michigan (it was NMU not EMU, right?) and asking if their redshirting, freshman QB was interested in transferring closer to home or calling California and telling Danny Jones that his QB is graduating and would he be interested in transferring to Whitewater...that he had a place for him on the roster. The fact that LL didn't initiate contact isn't really that crucial. Is that a more important distinction?  Once the player begins to indicate interest, then the wheels go in motion and the head coach gets involved. I'd argue that a transfer usually always just falls into your lap. But you can't expect to put the cart before the horse, can you? Thoughts?

I agree, that the transfer makes the initial contact. of course.  My point, exactly, with the two I referred to above.  I gave their reasons for choosing UWW and they had nothing to do with the HC.  Did he close the deal?  OK, but these QB's were coming, all he had to do is not screw it up.  To me that distinction flies in the face of his getting, "much of the credit," for them becoming Warhawks.  No, the Warhawk success gets much of the credit for these two becoming Warhawks, as far as I am concerned.  And as to the transfer almost always falling into your lap, many times, the transfer was originally recruited by a staff but they missed out when the player made another choice.  Then, if not having success with their first choice, many players contact a coaching staff that they rejected.  Rob Widuch and Colin Burns chose to transfer to UWW, from other schools, because of a prior recruiting relationship with the UWW staff. 

Look, I am not looking to bash LL!  Good Lord, he deserves major, amounts of kudos for how he contributed to our bringing home gold, not silver, in 07 and our maintaining this incredible success.  I apologize if my post sounded like I was taking anything away from him.  I was, much more, trying to stress that he didn't do it alone. That 3 of the 5 QB's during his watch came to him, either through the efforts of a previous staff or ESPN exposure, and he had plenty of help in developing them, in response to Emma's comment that they were, "all brought in by LL."  This comes down to semantics, I guess.   How does one interpret, "brought in?" You know how I do now and, I've beat the dead horse enough.   

[badgerwarhawk]

Glad you have nothing to do with the selection process ... Lets just keep Bullis, a major cog in 5 of our national championships, and say thanks for applying to the others, none of whom have ever won anything more than a conference championship (and some haven't even had that experience)!! ... and then keep trucking on like that? Bullis has earned the promotion and the right to captain our ship before we turn it over to any outsider.

To be fair here if you're crediting Bullis for national championships won when he was an assistant you should probably credit Raeburn for the 3 titles he won as an assistant at Mount as well.

Raeburn has a proven track record as a HC.  Bullis was a DC in the WIAC for 14 years prior to UWW so he has clearly paid his dues.  I don't see how either one is a bad choice.  To me it comes down to how the committee weights continuity versus HC experience.   

The last guy we hired didn't have any head coaching experience and that worked out pretty well. 

[02 Warhawk]

I realize as a Bears fan, I have ZERO bragging rights....but even with that being said you couldn't smack the smile off my face today if you tried.

[footballfan413]

I realize as a Bears fan, I have ZERO bragging rights....but even with that being said you couldn't smack the smile off my face today if you tried today.

I am giving you + 1  for this because I have a feeling your karma is going to get drilled today.   

[Pat Coleman]

I realize as a Bears fan, I have ZERO bragging rights....but even with that being said you couldn't smack the smile off my face today if you tried today.

I am giving you + 1  for this because I have a feeling your karma is going to get drilled today.   

I might be inclined to share +1 as well.