FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[emma17]

However, isn't an assistant coach or OC/DC at a D2 school, or a HC at a D3 school taking a huge chance in coming to UWW? 

Um, no.  Whitewater has every conceivable advantage in the Div III pond.  You take a chance at a place like Earlham.  Now that's taking a chance.  Whitewater isn't a "huge chance"...Whitewater is the golden goose.  If you can't win there right now with that infrastructure, you're not good at this. 

After all, their record will always be compared to LL's.  Even though reasonable people won't expect the same success, they will expect a high level of success.

I'd think there may have been a lot of quality coaches that decided against applying for the UWW job.

This is kind of ludicrous, really.  I'd love to see a list of applicants (that information should be public, yes?).  I don't believe Whitewater didn't have an outstanding pool of candidates to choose from.

Ludicrous?
Maybe you have a different opinion, however I don't think it's ludicrous to think a high quality coach would rather take on a challenge to bring a program from decent to great or good to great- than try to maintain a program at great.

[wally_wabash]

However, isn't an assistant coach or OC/DC at a D2 school, or a HC at a D3 school taking a huge chance in coming to UWW? 

Um, no.  Whitewater has every conceivable advantage in the Div III pond.  You take a chance at a place like Earlham.  Now that's taking a chance.  Whitewater isn't a "huge chance"...Whitewater is the golden goose.  If you can't win there right now with that infrastructure, you're not good at this. 

After all, their record will always be compared to LL's.  Even though reasonable people won't expect the same success, they will expect a high level of success.

I'd think there may have been a lot of quality coaches that decided against applying for the UWW job.

This is kind of ludicrous, really.  I'd love to see a list of applicants (that information should be public, yes?).  I don't believe Whitewater didn't have an outstanding pool of candidates to choose from.

Ludicrous?
Maybe you have a different opinion, however I don't think it's ludicrous to think a high quality coach would rather take on a challenge to bring a program from decent to great or good to great- than try to maintain a program at great.

I don't think Dean Paul applied for the Anderson job.  So no, I don't think that "high quality" coaches are intimidated by Whitewater or Coach Leipold's shadow.  If they are, then you all didn't want them anyway. 

[SaintsFAN]

This is kind of ludicrous, really.  I'd love to see a list of applicants (that information should be public, yes?).  I don't believe Whitewater didn't have an outstanding pool of candidates to choose from.

Didn't they release the full list of applicants for the Wisconsin Madison job?  I remember seeing a couple average Joe's highlighted because they put on their resume they were "good at college football on playstation" or something.

[wally_wabash]

This is kind of ludicrous, really.  I'd love to see a list of applicants (that information should be public, yes?).  I don't believe Whitewater didn't have an outstanding pool of candidates to choose from.

Didn't they release the full list of applicants for the Wisconsin Madison job?  I remember seeing a couple average Joe's highlighted because they put on their resume they were "good at college football on playstation" or something.

Correct.  I don't know if that information was released or if it was requested and then published because people will click on stories about who applied for the Badgers' job.  Doubt there is quite as much interest in who applied for the UWW job, so we haven't seen a list.  But it stands to reason that the information could be had by going through proper information request channels in Wisconsin. 

[emma17]

However, isn't an assistant coach or OC/DC at a D2 school, or a HC at a D3 school taking a huge chance in coming to UWW? 

Um, no.  Whitewater has every conceivable advantage in the Div III pond.  You take a chance at a place like Earlham.  Now that's taking a chance.  Whitewater isn't a "huge chance"...Whitewater is the golden goose.  If you can't win there right now with that infrastructure, you're not good at this. 

After all, their record will always be compared to LL's.  Even though reasonable people won't expect the same success, they will expect a high level of success.

I'd think there may have been a lot of quality coaches that decided against applying for the UWW job.

This is kind of ludicrous, really.  I'd love to see a list of applicants (that information should be public, yes?).  I don't believe Whitewater didn't have an outstanding pool of candidates to choose from.

Ludicrous?
Maybe you have a different opinion, however I don't think it's ludicrous to think a high quality coach would rather take on a challenge to bring a program from decent to great or good to great- than try to maintain a program at great.

I don't think Dean Paul applied for the Anderson job.  So no, I don't think that "high quality" coaches are intimidated by Whitewater or Coach Leipold's shadow.  If they are, then you all didn't want them anyway.

Perhaps Dean Paul doesn't have aspirations to move up to higher levels.  Or perhaps there are a gazillion other possible reasons Dean Paul applied for the UWW job.
That doesn't change the fact that there may be many high quality coaches out there with career ambitions of making it to the top that might have felt the UWW job was too great a risk for their goals.  I don't think that sort of thought process makes them undesirable coaches.  I don't think it's about intimidation or shadows.  It's about being realistic. 

To prevent any misreading of what I'm suggesting, in no way am I saying UWW didn't end up with high quality candidates.  I'm simply suggesting there may be quite a few that measured the risk and decided they would prefer a different stepping off opportunity.           

[wally_wabash]

Perhaps Dean Paul doesn't have aspirations to move up to higher levels.  Or perhaps there are a gazillion other possible reasons Dean Paul applied for the UWW job.
That doesn't change the fact that there may be many high quality coaches out there with career ambitions of making it to the top that might have felt the UWW job was too great a risk for their goals.  I don't think that sort of thought process makes them undesirable coaches.  I don't think it's about intimidation or shadows.  It's about being realistic. 

To prevent any misreading of what I'm suggesting, in no way am I saying UWW didn't end up with high quality candidates.  I'm simply suggesting there may be quite a few that measured the risk and decided they would prefer a different stepping off opportunity.         

I'm not seeing your logic.  You're saying that a coach that wants to achieve the highest success should avoid coming to UW-Whitewater which is the single most win-big-right-now setup (and it isn't close) in Division III?  What am I missing?

[bleedpurple]

Head Coach Finalist Reports on Rob Erickson and Dean Paul now up:

www.warhawkfootball.com

[02 Warhawk]

Head Coach Finalist Reports on Rob Erickson and Dean Paul now up:

www.warhawkfootball.com

Great write-ups about the coaches, looking forward on reading about the next two.

[BoBo]

bleed, thank's for your reporting - appreciate all you do to bring us the latest and greatest news.  It's too bad they can't video stream these events - what an opportunity that they missed out on.

[bleedpurple]

bleed, thank's for your reporting - appreciate all you do to bring us the latest and greatest news.  It's too bad they can't video stream these events - what an opportunity that they missed out on.

Thanks, Bobo. I appreciate it.  Kevin Bullis had his interview last night and today. I'll have the report posted tomorrow.  Preview: It was a very good 24 hours for Coach Bullis. 

[BoBo]

However, isn't an assistant coach or OC/DC at a D2 school, or a HC at a D3 school taking a huge chance in coming to UWW? 

Um, no.  Whitewater has every conceivable advantage in the Div III pond.  You take a chance at a place like Earlham.  Now that's taking a chance.  Whitewater isn't a "huge chance"...Whitewater is the golden goose.  If you can't win there right now with that infrastructure, you're not good at this. 

After all, their record will always be compared to LL's.  Even though reasonable people won't expect the same success, they will expect a high level of success.

I'd think there may have been a lot of quality coaches that decided against applying for the UWW job.

This is kind of ludicrous, really.  I'd love to see a list of applicants (that information should be public, yes?).  I don't believe Whitewater didn't have an outstanding pool of candidates to choose from.

UW athletic director Barry Alvarez confirmed Friday he interviewed former Rutgers coach Greg Schiano as well as former Michigan State defensive coordinator Pat Narduzzi for the opening that was created when Gary Andersen left last month for Oregon State.

Schiano, who also coached Tampa Bay in the NFL, remains on the market. Coincidentally, Narduzzi is now the head coach at Pittsburgh, a job that became available when Chryst came back to his alma mater.

Alvarez said there were others interviewed, including an African-American, but he declined to identify them because they're currently head coaches.

"That's where it gets touchy because then you jeopardize their job because they're looking (for a different job) or their agent's looking for them," he said.

Doesn't sound like BA is going to announce names of applicants - so I doubt UWW will either.

Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/college/badgers-football-barry-alvarez-says-he-interviewed-at-least-two/article_da9a8918-7bd0-58f2-9e10-e42d7f37f798.html#ixzz3Pi9DUqWd

[wally_wabash]

I don't think they get a choice if an information request is made.

[bleedpurple]

Perhaps Dean Paul doesn't have aspirations to move up to higher levels.  Or perhaps there are a gazillion other possible reasons Dean Paul applied for the UWW job.
That doesn't change the fact that there may be many high quality coaches out there with career ambitions of making it to the top that might have felt the UWW job was too great a risk for their goals.  I don't think that sort of thought process makes them undesirable coaches.  I don't think it's about intimidation or shadows.  It's about being realistic. 

To prevent any misreading of what I'm suggesting, in no way am I saying UWW didn't end up with high quality candidates.  I'm simply suggesting there may be quite a few that measured the risk and decided they would prefer a different stepping off opportunity.         

I'm not seeing your logic.  You're saying that a coach that wants to achieve the highest success should avoid coming to UW-Whitewater which is the single most win-big-right-now setup (and it isn't close) in Division III?  What am I missing?

You are missing what is right in front of you.  The discussion is not about whether the UW-W Head Coach job is one positioned well for success. Without a doubt, it is the best job in the country. However, it is a mistake to look at UW-W as a natural stepping stone for someone with D1 aspirations in the near future. Accurate or not (and I think not), the majority of D1 AD's perceive a D3 Head Coach to be at least one, maybe two steps removed from being qualified to be a Head Coach in D1. It takes a perfect storm of events to break that mold. In LL's case, his ridiculous record and number of championships combined with the ESPN story increasing his profile both played into him getting this job.  Buffalo AD's willingness to "take a chance" on Lance was also part of the perfect storm.  And in Buffalo circles, this move is considered taking a chance.

You have posted about the UW-W "advantages".  So you are well aware of those.  Now you add in the recent success of 6 National Championships in 8 years.  Let's say the next UW-W coach wins 4 National Championships in 6 years. You are a D1 AD who is looking for a coach. How can you know that coach is more than a very good D3 coach given the situation he walked in to? How do you know he's not a "system guy". Like a QB coming out of Oregon. Is he great because he is great? Or is he great because the Oregon system made him great? LL's success has now added weight to the "system" at UW-W.  The next coach will have to fight off that perception as well as all the other predispositions regarding D3.

[BoBo]

Perhaps Dean Paul doesn't have aspirations to move up to higher levels.  Or perhaps there are a gazillion other possible reasons Dean Paul applied for the UWW job.
That doesn't change the fact that there may be many high quality coaches out there with career ambitions of making it to the top that might have felt the UWW job was too great a risk for their goals.  I don't think that sort of thought process makes them undesirable coaches.  I don't think it's about intimidation or shadows.  It's about being realistic. 

To prevent any misreading of what I'm suggesting, in no way am I saying UWW didn't end up with high quality candidates.  I'm simply suggesting there may be quite a few that measured the risk and decided they would prefer a different stepping off opportunity.         

I'm not seeing your logic.  You're saying that a coach that wants to achieve the highest success should avoid coming to UW-Whitewater which is the single most win-big-right-now setup (and it isn't close) in Division III?  What am I missing?

You are missing what is right in front of you.  The discussion is not about whether the UW-W Head Coach job is one positioned well for success. Without a doubt, it is the best job in the country. However, it is a mistake to look at UW-W as a natural stepping stone for someone with D1 aspirations in the near future. Accurate or not (and I think not), the majority of D1 AD's perceive a D3 Head Coach to be at least one, maybe two steps removed from being qualified to be a Head Coach in D1. It takes a perfect storm of events to break that mold. In LL's case, his ridiculous record and number of championships combined with the ESPN story increasing his profile both played into him getting this job.  Buffalo AD's willingness to "take a chance" on Lance was also part of the perfect storm.  And in Buffalo circles, this move is considered taking a chance.

You have posted about the UW-W "advantages".  So you are well aware of those.  Now you add in the recent success of 6 National Championships in 8 years.  Let's say the next UW-W coach wins 4 National Championships in 6 years. You are a D1 AD who is looking for a coach. How can you know that coach is more than a very good D3 coach given the situation he walked in to? How do you know he's not a "system guy". Like a QB coming out of Oregon. Is he great because he is great? Or is he great because the Oregon system made him great? LL's success has now added weight to the "system" at UW-W.  The next coach will have to fight off that perception as well as all the other predispositions regarding D3.

My believe is that it would depend on the success LL has in making a splash at Buffalo in the MAC, maybe a few bowl wins and generally competitive against higher caliber teams in the same time period - starting with Penn State next year. That question will have to wait a few years before we can make a definitive answer.  But, if LL can do that, WW's next coach winning like you expressed might be looked at more favorably by a D1 AD. Can lightning strike twice?

BTW, it's a total waste of time asking a coaching candidate if he is using this opportunity as a stepping stone to bigger and better or is this a destination job for him. There's only one answer he can give and still get the job and everyone knows what that answer is - so why even ask it?

[bleedpurple]

Perhaps Dean Paul doesn't have aspirations to move up to higher levels.  Or perhaps there are a gazillion other possible reasons Dean Paul applied for the UWW job.
That doesn't change the fact that there may be many high quality coaches out there with career ambitions of making it to the top that might have felt the UWW job was too great a risk for their goals.  I don't think that sort of thought process makes them undesirable coaches.  I don't think it's about intimidation or shadows.  It's about being realistic. 

To prevent any misreading of what I'm suggesting, in no way am I saying UWW didn't end up with high quality candidates.  I'm simply suggesting there may be quite a few that measured the risk and decided they would prefer a different stepping off opportunity.         

I'm not seeing your logic.  You're saying that a coach that wants to achieve the highest success should avoid coming to UW-Whitewater which is the single most win-big-right-now setup (and it isn't close) in Division III?  What am I missing?

You are missing what is right in front of you.  The discussion is not about whether the UW-W Head Coach job is one positioned well for success. Without a doubt, it is the best job in the country. However, it is a mistake to look at UW-W as a natural stepping stone for someone with D1 aspirations in the near future. Accurate or not (and I think not), the majority of D1 AD's perceive a D3 Head Coach to be at least one, maybe two steps removed from being qualified to be a Head Coach in D1. It takes a perfect storm of events to break that mold. In LL's case, his ridiculous record and number of championships combined with the ESPN story increasing his profile both played into him getting this job.  Buffalo AD's willingness to "take a chance" on Lance was also part of the perfect storm.  And in Buffalo circles, this move is considered taking a chance.

You have posted about the UW-W "advantages".  So you are well aware of those.  Now you add in the recent success of 6 National Championships in 8 years.  Let's say the next UW-W coach wins 4 National Championships in 6 years. You are a D1 AD who is looking for a coach. How can you know that coach is more than a very good D3 coach given the situation he walked in to? How do you know he's not a "system guy". Like a QB coming out of Oregon. Is he great because he is great? Or is he great because the Oregon system made him great? LL's success has now added weight to the "system" at UW-W.  The next coach will have to fight off that perception as well as all the other predispositions regarding D3.

My believe is that it would depend on the success LL has in making a splash at Buffalo in the MAC, maybe a few bowl wins and generally competitive against higher caliber teams in the same time period - starting with Penn State next year. That question will have to wait a few years before we can make a definitive answer.  But, if LL can do that, WW's next coach winning like you expressed might be looked at more favorably by a D1 AD. Can lightning strike twice?

BTW, it's a total waste of time asking a coaching candidate if he is using this opportunity as a stepping stone to bigger and better or is this a destination job for him. There's only one answer he can give and still get the job and everyone knows what that answer is - so why even ask it?

From that perspective, I agree with you. If LL does well (and he will), it could definitely help change perceptions.  In fact, it could even be more significant than lightening striking twice. The more "D-III" guys that have success in D-I (regardless of route), the more seriously D-III candidates will be taken. A couple of guys taking the direct route Lance is taking and being successful could really accelerate that type of opportunity.

But to circle all the way back to Emma's original thought (yes, he has those you naysayers ), given the CURRENT landscape and perceptions between D-I and D-III, I do find it plausible that an excellent coach with D-I ambitions could decide not to apply for the UW-W job. Not because he was afraid of not succeeding, but rather because in the eyes of D-I AD's, his success in advancing an elite team in D-III may not translate to turning around a struggling D-I team. 

Tangentially, Bobo, you weren't as far off as some have led you to believe regarding Jeff Jagodzinski.  He did initiate contact with UW-W and there was at least one telephone conversation. He did not end up applying for the job,  but even the fact that he called demonstrates you were well within the ballpark in mentioning his name.