FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[voice]

The most comprehensive TV story on this morning's Kevin Bullis introductory press conference aired tonight on Milwaukee's TV 58

http://www.cbs58.com/.../uw-whitewater-names-new-head-footbal...

[bulk19]

I'm still trying to figure out the "mistake" the RP paper made? But then that's just me, someone who knows what the purpose of a student newspaper is, and how it functions...

Until we know exactly happened, I can't say a mistake was made; we don't know who the sources were, but the information in the story was correct, right?

The story was pulled from online, right? Why? Did the RP buckle from pressure from the administration because it scooped the official announcement two days before it was made? It would also make a difference if the U issued a embargoed (meaning do not release the information until x date.... ) news release to the RP announcing the press conference before or after the RP online story appeared...

If the online story appeared before a press release was issued, too bad, and good for the RPers for getting the scoop...

And why would the U issue a release on Wednesday with the name of the new head coach, if it was indeed concerned about a leak? Perhaps - and yes, this is all speculation, but an attempt to determine what possibly occurred - a generic release w/o the name could have been issued saying a press conference to announce the hiring was to be held on Friday.

But then again, in that case, if there is no name attached to the press release, but says an announcement is forthcoming, if the RP finds out the name of the head coach, it should run it...

And to one of bleedpurple's specific points:
Those students can't be expected to follow the highest of journalistic standards - no one said student reporters should not be held to the highest of standards simply because they are students... What we are saying is that everyone, and students in particular, hence the word "student" - make mistakes. (I know many a reporter who uses a pencil with an eraser on it.) But one's experience, or lack of, doesn't give one a free pass on not striving to meet those standards.

[OzJohnnie]

Jeeeeeezus. It's a frickin student newspaper. I'm addicted to this train wreck and morbidly fascinated to find out how long this pedantic inanity go on.  But for your own emotional health let it go.

[badgerwarhawk]

I drove by Whitewater Lake today and saw a bunch of guys ice fishing.  They were drinking beer and talking about Australian rules football. Thought about stopping and joining in but I was late for work, maybe next time.   

 

[oshfb]

Jeeeeeezus. It's a frickin student newspaper. I'm addicted to this train wreck and morbidly fascinated to find out how long this pedantic inanity go on.  But for your own emotional health let it go.

+K

[emma17]

Jknezek
I'm sorry you are bored with my desire for posters to discuss the facts and not misrepresentations.  It's actually my personal mission to better the world.

You're guilty of posting this- and it's intellectually dishonest.

Holding a student newspaper out to only do it's job if it can be done perfectly all the time is unreasonable.

Hey Oz- didn't you attend a Catholic university?

[WarhawkDad]

I drove by Whitewater Lake today and saw a bunch of guys ice fishing.  They were drinking beer and talking about Australian rules football. Thought about stopping and joining in but I was late for work, maybe next time.   

Maybe we should have a poll on top of the Boards about whether or not you should have stopped!   

[voice]

A big welcome to Kevin Damask, the Jefferson County Daily Union's new UW-Whitewater football beat writer. Kevin is replacing Josh Smith who recently accepted a new employment opportunity.

Here is Kevin's first Warhawk football story... a comprehensive account of yesterday's Kevin Bullis' "welcome" press conference

http://www.dailyunion.com/sports/article_af14aa9e-ac97-11e4-9a34-07020f49732b.html#.VNON2Z3tvFM.facebook

[Pat Coleman]

Every newspaper makes mistakes. From the NY Times to the Vidalia News. That's why they have a corrections and retractions section. Being perfect isn't what qualifies a journalist to break news at any level, that is simply the job. All papers are expected to be ethical, but that is different from never making a mistake. Holding a student newspaper out to only do it's job if it can be done perfectly all the time is unreasonable.

Right Jknezek- because that's what Bleed is clearly saying-perfection is mandatory.

As far as I'm concerned, there are way too many posters on these boards that have a real problem with twisting words, misrepresenting positions and taking points out of context. It indicates a real weakness in your position, and your character, when you can't respectfully engage in a debate or subject with intellectual honesty.

Wow. Thank you,Emma. It is rather amazing.  It is an effective (but deceptive) debate technique. Twist and re-phrase and argue against your re-phrasing. It's basically a straw-man technique.  It wins polls at the top of message boards, but it really doesn't establishing anything toward moving the discussion forward because it doesn't address what was actually posted.

And JK, I consider you one of the better poster on these boards, but perfection? Really?  I'm clearly talking about process and I'm clearly asking questions. Unless you are just stating that out of the blue or responding to someone else. I don't think there are too many people joining me on my inquiry though. 

It is amazing. You may want to have a neutral party read your posts on this subject and see if you fit your own description.

[jknezek]

Jknezek
I'm sorry you are bored with my desire for posters to discuss the facts and not misrepresentations.  It's actually my personal mission to better the world.

You're guilty of posting this- and it's intellectually dishonest.

Holding a student newspaper out to only do it's job if it can be done perfectly all the time is unreasonable.

Why is that intellectually dishonest? Did you read what I posted above that explains that statement and justifies it? Do you have anything that adds to the conversation besides insults and dodging the topic? You seem incapable of actually making a statement that supports a position and only capable of making complaints and insulting people. I'm the third person in a row that has disagreed with you that has been accused of twisting words and intellectual dishonesty. Have you considered its not everyone else that it is you?

I suppose that is the mark of an internet poster all too often these days. Incapable of logic and reasoning, exceptionally capable of insults and trolling.

[WarhawkDad]

Every newspaper makes mistakes. From the NY Times to the Vidalia News. That's why they have a corrections and retractions section. Being perfect isn't what qualifies a journalist to break news at any level, that is simply the job. All papers are expected to be ethical, but that is different from never making a mistake. Holding a student newspaper out to only do it's job if it can be done perfectly all the time is unreasonable.

Right Jknezek- because that's what Bleed is clearly saying-perfection is mandatory.

As far as I'm concerned, there are way too many posters on these boards that have a real problem with twisting words, misrepresenting positions and taking points out of context. It indicates a real weakness in your position, and your character, when you can't respectfully engage in a debate or subject with intellectual honesty.

This is your defense to everything and it gets incredibly boring. Especially when a simple ability to look at a point of view logically that you don't agree with leads you to say I have a weakness in my character and a lack of intellectual honesty. That is a sad series of insults that is out of place. Try and follow along with my position. It shouldn't be that hard for someone with your intellectual honesty.


These are his words describing what he feels others apparently believe about student journalists:

"Those students can't be expected to follow the highest of journalistic standards yet, because they are understandably in-process.  Mistakes will happen. They are there to learn. They are just students."

First, he's wrong. No one said anything about not expecting students to follow the highest journalistic standards. I certainly do and I tried to live up to those standards when it was my turn. However, living up to those standards and not making mistakes are not the same thing. Everyone, every newspaper makes mistakes, from the best pros on down. And yet that is exactly what he is equating.

Now, reread my response. I addressed only that point. Not making mistakes is the definition of perfection. Ask a dictionary or keep it simple and Google it. Here you go:

"the condition, state, or quality of being free or as free as possible from all flaws or defects."

So no, I'm not twisting his words in the slightest. I'm using the definition of "no mistakes" to equal perfection, which it is a synonym of, see the definition above. If you still think that is "twisting words" than you have a problem with understanding the phrase, and that is not a flaw in my character.

I can't help what he wrote. I can only refute what he wrote. Highest journalistic standards does not equal no mistakes. It's really simple.

So then it becomes fairly easy to talk about the rest of what he wrote. If they are trying for the highest standards, but sometimes not achieving perfection like everyone else, then why wouldn't they have the same right to try and break news as any other newspaper?

Everyone is getting caught up in semantics.   The reality is that the Royal Purple did what many newspapers, t.v. news reporters and other journalists do from time to time.  They reported something in advance of it being formally announced based upon what they believed to be "reliable sources".   

Was it a mistake?   That is probably not the right word.   Was it poor judgment given the need for a positive relationship between the paper and the Athletic Department, probably.   Was it something they should learn from, yes.    Could they have been classier by waiting, yes.  But these are kids and while we can hold them to high journalistic standards and high moral and ethical standards, sometimes they don't quite live up to those standards, just like other human beings in many other professions; including those who go on into life to be quite successful.

These boards turn into a testosterone filled written communication contests with the heartiest of competitors from time to time and while it is fun to read for a while, when the humor seems to fade from the posts, it is time to move on to a new subject.

WarhawkDad

[d-train]

[bulk19]

Jeeeeeezus. It's a frickin student newspaper. I'm addicted to this train wreck and morbidly fascinated to find out how long this pedantic inanity go on.  But for your own emotional health let it go.

+K

Yeah, you guys are right; this topic has been ongoing for only about a week now, drawing posters from all other regions who are weighing  in on it, rather than just the usual Warhawk-dominating regulars - in part, because some of us play Perry Mason and have to prove our case, in part because some of us parse words, and in part because some of us like to bloviate in print, like I do.

Oh well. I tried my best to provide answers and explain what may have happened to those who have asked questions, and have tried to weigh in and do my part to make this a legitimate discussion, but the posters are calling for the hounds to be called off...

(Message me if you want to continue discussing this topic, so we can spare the rest... Jeez, for a for a topic near and dear to my heart, I only weighed in twice on it, not counting this ramble... And I actually stuck up for someone from Whitewater, albeit the student newspaper, and not the football team... I must be ill, or something.)

Carry on, gents.

PS = The whole month leading up to the new head coach's hiring sure was quite entertaining for the rest of us here who lurk and read the Warhawk region, er WIAC region, posts, without doing so ourselves. (The who-is-right?-emma-vs.-wally discussion was too fun.) Or you guys can fill us in on more pressing matters, such as the WW 2015 schedule? Or who LL has coming in as recruits in Buffalo? Or who the WW coaching staff will be... That should compelling enough to sustain us lurkers for a week or so, eh?

[BDB]

I say carry on the back and forth, to and fro, give and take, as it were.

What else are we going to talk about? Soccer? 

[Just Bill]

Well, there's this...

http://host.madison.com/news/local/uw-whitewater-would-take-steepest-budget-hit-among-uw-schools/article_52c6749b-4cc9-53bb-b07e-83c3f227c23c.html

This is no good for anyone.