FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Mr. Ypsi]

Bleed- You're right, that's a linebacker name through and through. 

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues.  

I'm sure their are more reasons but one important one, imo, is that the NFL attempts to  balance the playing field by having both teams playing with the same football.

At any given time, both teams DO play with the same football - one tries to advance it, the other tries to take it away.  If it is true that a softer football is easier to catch, it is equally true that it is easier to intercept.  This whole thing was a tempest in a teapot - and not even good tea.  I've seen no allegations that the Patriots deflated balls in any other game; does anyone think 'deflategate' caused a 45-7 blow-out?!  Total ridiculousness.

[MediaGuy]

Bleed- You're right, that's a linebacker name through and through. 

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues.  

I'm sure their are more reasons but one important one, imo, is that the NFL attempts to  balance the playing field by having both teams playing with the same football.

At any given time, both teams DO play with the same football - one tries to advance it, the other tries to take it away.  If it is true that a softer football is easier to catch, it is equally true that it is easier to intercept.  This whole thing was a tempest in a teapot - and not even good tea.  I've seen no allegations that the Patriots deflated balls in any other game; does anyone think 'deflategate' caused a 45-7 blow-out?!  Total ridiculousness.

From what I understand the penalty is for 2 reasons...
1. The NFL issued a memo to all the teams relating to videotaping the opposing teams DC when calling plays in pre-season of 2007 and again after the winter meetings in 2008 and the Patriots openly defied the warning memo and where subsequently caught in "spygate".  Strike One. The NFL issued another warning memo to the entire league before the 2010 season about supposed "bounty hunting" and the Saints openly defied that memo and got caught with "bountygate". Strike Two.  After reports at the end of 2013 and the beginning of 2014 season, the NFL issued an internal memo to all the teams with a veiled emphasis on the Patriots about equipment tampering around week 10-11 of 2014.  The Patriots were caught deflating the balls and that was Strike Three.  In the NFL's point of view, it is one thing to be caught doing something that is against the rules but it is entirely different when there have been specific warnings about a behavior which are ignored...and that takes me to...
2.  From an institutional point of view, the NFL is like any other bureaucratic governing body.  To them, intentionally breaking an equipment rule on orders from someone in the organization is the same as an organization requiring players to take Performance Enhancing Drugs.  The team broke a rule for the sole purpose of gaining a competitive advantage.  Much like the IRS, they don't care how much "advantage" you gain from breaking a rule, it is the fact that you intentionally broke the rule. 

While I might not agree with the punishment or the reason the NFL for assessing it, it seems to me that to the NFL this is more a matter of keeping the inmates from running the asylum, than assessing a fair punishment for a seemingly small rules infraction.

But that's just the opinion of a Vikings fan, who spends the off-season reading old NFL memos instead of reading about our upcoming season...I'll do that once we figure out how to beat the Packers...

[MasterJedi]

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues. 

Does anyone know if Brady will appeal?  I can't believe I'm defending that pretty boy and his team, but I don't think the NFL made thier case.  Or at least the indictment they presented could have many plausible explinations for the events they describe (such as texts or toilet breaks) other than cheating.  But then after Ray Rice (is that the name from the Baltimore player) the NFL is probably erring on the side of unjust conviction.

It's like in court (not for a murder), after a pondering of the evidence it just has to be more likely that they knew then they did not. It's obvious they did it and the NFL went too soft on them. Brady and Bellicheat should be suspended for the entire season, Kraft should be forced to sell the team and they should forfeit all their 2016 draft picks and be fined more then $1 million.

[BoBo]

He's also a San Francisco Giants  fan and not a Tigers guy as well. 

as a DODGERS guy I feel dirty just typing that.

I was watching the ending of the Giants/Marlin game on MLB TV on Sunday am here (6-2 Marlin win) when announcers Jon Miller and Mike Krukow took a liking and to a Giant fan guy wearing a bull horned, and much more (a fuzzy crown with shiny stones, etc), rally cap. It was quite elaborate and unique. But the part I found most interesting was his black and orange Giant hoodie and what was printed on the front. When the camera's caught the guy standing and cheering following a bottom of the ninth run scored by the Giants, it could be read as:

Teach your
  children
   to hate
  Dodgers!!

I believe it's a hoodie only worn for use in At&T Park. BTW, the guy didn't look old enough to have children of his own.

[badgerwarhawk]

He's also a San Francisco Giants  fan and not a Tigers guy as well. 

as a DODGERS guy I feel dirty just typing that.

I was watching the ending of the Giants/Marlin game on MLB TV on Sunday am here (6-2 Marlin win) when announcers Jon Miller and Mike Krukow took a liking and to a Giant fan guy wearing a bull horned, and much more (a fuzzy crown with shiny stones, etc), rally cap. It was quite elaborate and unique. But the part I found most interesting was his black and orange Giant hoodie and what was printed on the front. When the camera's caught the guy standing and cheering following a bottom of the ninth run scored by the Giants, it could be read as:

Teach your
  children
   to hate
  Dodgers!!

I believe it's a hoodie only worn for use in At&T Park. BTW, the guy didn't look old enough to have children of his own.

The rivalry is incredible.  And in some instances is insane and has led to deaths.  A few years ago a Giants fan was actually beaten to death in DODGERS Stadium parking lot on opening day.  Last year a DODGERS fan was fatally shot after leaving AT&T park.  When we visited AT&T park last year I made a point of not wearing anything DODGERS.  We also saw those hoodies and t-shirts with similar messages for sale by street vendors around the ballpark.   

[OzJohnnie]

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues. 

Does anyone know if Brady will appeal?  I can't believe I'm defending that pretty boy and his team, but I don't think the NFL made thier case.  Or at least the indictment they presented could have many plausible explinations for the events they describe (such as texts or toilet breaks) other than cheating.  But then after Ray Rice (is that the name from the Baltimore player) the NFL is probably erring on the side of unjust conviction.

It's like in court (not for a murder), after a pondering of the evidence it just has to be more likely that they knew then they did not. It's obvious they did it and the NFL went too soft on them. Brady and Bellicheat should be suspended for the entire season, Kraft should be forced to sell the team and they should forfeit all their 2016 draft picks and be fined more then $1 million.

I reckon there is a reasonable chance that Brady will win on appeal. I believe the nfl where as emotional in there thinking as you just were.

[BoBo]

Hey Bobo
I see a profitable side business in your future. Can the do Blackhawks jerseys?

These guys can do anything, they're magicians with a sewing machine. But, it would take to much effort & risk making a profit. Getting stuff past postal or customs inspectors is the big problem. I'm too old to go to jail for something so stupid. Years ago, like the late 70's, I used to have sneakers made the same way. Korea at that time had thousands of shoe manufacturers and they were quite good at making custom fit one of a kind Nikes, for example, just from a pencil tracing of your foot outline on paper. My family and friends all got them as gifts and they were as good as the real thing. I could mail them out and nobody cared. But, good things don't last forever and although there are a few old time craftmen still around to do it, all but one shoe maker have left in search of higher profits in China, Vietnam, Indonesia, India etc. I'm sure even the one major Korean maker of shoes remaining, Pro Specs, make their products elsewhere since wages have gotten to high here and Korean workers no longer will do those kinds of jobs. Used to buy fishing rods and reels the same way (they were all made here as late as the early 90's), and you could buy directly from the local makers at obscenely cheap prices. I could open a museum of rods and reels with just my boxed, unused tackle. Samsung and LG have changed all that, those bums!! Enough with the history of manufacturing in the ROK. Back to Brady and the Patriots.

[BDB]

It's like in court (not for a murder), after a pondering of the evidence it just has to be more likely that they knew then they did not. It's obvious they did it and the NFL went too soft on them. Brady and Bellicheat should be suspended for the entire season, Kraft should be forced to sell the team and they should forfeit all their 2016 draft picks and be fined more then $1 million.

Maybe they should be deported, naked, in a rowboat with no food or water as well.

That'll show 'em for the egregious act of letting a little air out of some footballs!

[BoBo]

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues. 

Does anyone know if Brady will appeal?  I can't believe I'm defending that pretty boy and his team, but I don't think the NFL made thier case.  Or at least the indictment they presented could have many plausible explinations for the events they describe (such as texts or toilet breaks) other than cheating.  But then after Ray Rice (is that the name from the Baltimore player) the NFL is probably erring on the side of unjust conviction.

It's like in court (not for a murder), after a pondering of the evidence it just has to be more likely that they knew then they did not. It's obvious they did it and the NFL went too soft on them. Brady and Bellicheat should be suspended for the entire season, Kraft should be forced to sell the team and they should forfeit all their 2016 draft picks and be fined more then $1 million.

I reckon there is a reasonable chance that Brady will win on appeal. I believe the nfl where as emotional in there thinking as you just were.

I think the 4 games will be cut down to 2 with everything else against the team remaining intact. He's has to pay some price for not fully cooperating with investigators to send a message that even a pretty boy prima donna like Brady is not bigger than the league. The team has to be penalized as a repeat offender. Anybody who thinks this is the first time the Patriots have done this would have to be nuts.

[badgerwarhawk]

Bleed- You're right, that's a linebacker name through and through. 

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues.  

I'm sure their are more reasons but one important one, imo, is that the NFL attempts to  balance the playing field by having both teams playing with the same football.

At any given time, both teams DO play with the same football - one tries to advance it, the other tries to take it away.  If it is true that a softer football is easier to catch, it is equally true that it is easier to intercept.  This whole thing was a tempest in a teapot - and not even good tea.  I've seen no allegations that the Patriots deflated balls in any other game; does anyone think 'deflategate' caused a 45-7 blow-out?!  Total ridiculousness.

Of course no one thinks it made a difference but that's not the point.  The fact that it likely had an insignificant impact on the outcome is what makes it so absurd.  The problem was discovered and corrected by half time so the second half was played with properly inflated balls.  The second half score...Patriots: 28  Colts: 0.  That suggests that Brady didn't really need to mess with the balls to win.  The Patriots owner can talk all he wants about how the organization has cooperated with the investigation but the fact is Brady was uncooperative.  He's a cheat and when he got caught he tried to lie his way out of it.  Really classy to let a couple of locker room attendants take the rap. 

BTW, if it hasn't dawned on you the point is the integrity of the game not whether the Patriots would or wouldn't have won.  I'm surprised, given your Christian training, that isn't clear to you.   They do teach ethics at IWU...right?

[hazzben]

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues. 

Does anyone know if Brady will appeal?  I can't believe I'm defending that pretty boy and his team, but I don't think the NFL made thier case.  Or at least the indictment they presented could have many plausible explinations for the events they describe (such as texts or toilet breaks) other than cheating.  But then after Ray Rice (is that the name from the Baltimore player) the NFL is probably erring on the side of unjust conviction.

I'm with you Oz. Do I think the balls were probably deflated intentionally, probably. Do I think Brady knew about it, probably. Do I think it was his request? I have a hard time imagining they'd do it without his say so.

Do I think the Wells report completely failed to prove it's point. Absolutely. It's not just murder cases that need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt...it's any criminal case. Essentially Wells had a lot of circumstantial evidence and some that didn't really relate to deflate gate but made Brady look bad. And he used it, along with vague language, to say Brady was 'more likely than not' guilty.

The issue I have is the whole notion this guy was running an independent investigation. Ha! Who is paying him millions to do this? Oh, yes, the NFL, who he's been cozy with for years. And to Brady not turning over his phone and emails, there's no way I would have either. Even if he's innocent (which I doubt) there's no way he could trust that thing that weren't germane to the investigation would stay private. The other thing is that Brady has essentially been denied a day in court. An 'independent investigation' is just that, only one side. There's a reason when people go to trial, whether it be criminal or civil, it's not just the prosecutor making an opening statement, calling witnesses and making a closing statement. The defense gets to present evidence and make a case as well. With this sort of investigation, none of that happens.

That's not an insignificant issue. Essentially one of the major knocks on Brady is that he didn't turn over all his private communications. Right to privacy is either fundamental in this country or it isn't. And if defending one's right to privacy means that you then lose the presumption of innocence, well, you don't really have a legitimate right to privacy do you?

I think he cheated. And I hate cheating. But the NFL is pissed because, as I think Joe Posnanski wrote, the Patriots are the best cheaters in a league of cheaters. But at the end of the day, he maybe/probably let the air out of some footballs (wait, he doctored footballs that everyone in the league is trying to doctor too?). He didn't beat his wife, he's not guilty of a DWI/DUI and/or vehicular homicide, he wasn't caught dealing/using drugs. And the amount of ink spilled over this minor transgression (yes, it's a transgression and yes, it's minor) is totally out of proportion.

If I'm Brady and the NFLPA, I'm wetting my sword for a fight. $1,000,000 and 4 games for letting air out, when it seems pretty clear the Colts and NFL were essentially setting a speed trap for them? All because the NFL's lack irrefutably claims that Brady maybe, possibly, likely, probably, coulda known or been involved. It all stinks.

No body in this mess isn't rolling around the pig pen right now. /endrant

[hazzben]

Bleed- You're right, that's a linebacker name through and through. 

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues.  

I'm sure their are more reasons but one important one, imo, is that the NFL attempts to  balance the playing field by having both teams playing with the same football.

At any given time, both teams DO play with the same football - one tries to advance it, the other tries to take it away.  If it is true that a softer football is easier to catch, it is equally true that it is easier to intercept.  This whole thing was a tempest in a teapot - and not even good tea.  I've seen no allegations that the Patriots deflated balls in any other game; does anyone think 'deflategate' caused a 45-7 blow-out?!  Total ridiculousness.

Of course no one thinks it made a difference but that's not the point.  The fact that it likely had an insignificant impact on the outcome is what makes it so absurd.  The problem was discovered and corrected by half time so the second half was played with properly inflated balls.  The second half score...Patriots: 28  Colts: 0.  That suggests that Brady didn't really need to mess with the balls to win.  The Patriots owner can talk all he wants about how the organization has cooperated with the investigation but the fact is Brady was uncooperative.  He's a cheat and when he got caught he tried to lie his way out of it.  Really classy to let a couple of locker room attendants take the rap. 

BTW, if it hasn't dawned on you the point is the integrity of the game not whether the Patriots would or wouldn't have won.  I'm surprised, given your Christian training, that isn't clear to you.   They do teach ethics at St John's...right?

I can't speak for Oz's point. But I'd argue the ethics of this whole thing stink. No one has the moral high ground. And if you think your NFL team is squeaky clean, and all the players are choir boys, think again. To say that you think Brady's getting the shaft doesn't mean you think what he probably did was ok. I sure don't. But that doesn't mean everyone's clean. For the NFL, the end doesn't justify the means.

[BDB]

Bleed- You're right, that's a linebacker name through and through. 

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues.  

I'm sure their are more reasons but one important one, imo, is that the NFL attempts to  balance the playing field by having both teams playing with the same football.

At any given time, both teams DO play with the same football - one tries to advance it, the other tries to take it away.  If it is true that a softer football is easier to catch, it is equally true that it is easier to intercept.  This whole thing was a tempest in a teapot - and not even good tea.  I've seen no allegations that the Patriots deflated balls in any other game; does anyone think 'deflategate' caused a 45-7 blow-out?!  Total ridiculousness.

Of course no one thinks it made a difference but that's not the point.  The fact that it likely had an insignificant impact on the outcome is what makes it so absurd.  The problem was discovered and corrected by half time so the second half was played with properly inflated balls.  The second half score...Patriots: 28  Colts: 0.  That suggests that Brady didn't really need to mess with the balls to win.  The Patriots owner can talk all he wants about how the organization has cooperated with the investigation but the fact is Brady was uncooperative.  He's a cheat and when he got caught he tried to lie his way out of it.  Really classy to let a couple of locker room attendants take the rap. 

BTW, if it hasn't dawned on you the point is the integrity of the game not whether the Patriots would or wouldn't have won.  I'm surprised, given your Christian training, that isn't clear to you.   They do teach ethics at St John's...right?

I don't believe Mr.Ypsi has any connection to St. John's.

[badgerwarhawk]

Bleed- You're right, that's a linebacker name through and through. 

I see Brady received a 4 game suspension.  There had to be a consequence and I think this is fair.  Now that the punishment is decided, I'd like to know why the PSI matters in the big leagues.  

I'm sure their are more reasons but one important one, imo, is that the NFL attempts to  balance the playing field by having both teams playing with the same football.

At any given time, both teams DO play with the same football - one tries to advance it, the other tries to take it away.  If it is true that a softer football is easier to catch, it is equally true that it is easier to intercept.  This whole thing was a tempest in a teapot - and not even good tea.  I've seen no allegations that the Patriots deflated balls in any other game; does anyone think 'deflategate' caused a 45-7 blow-out?!  Total ridiculousness.

Of course no one thinks it made a difference but that's not the point.  The fact that it likely had an insignificant impact on the outcome is what makes it so absurd.  The problem was discovered and corrected by half time so the second half was played with properly inflated balls.  The second half score...Patriots: 28  Colts: 0.  That suggests that Brady didn't really need to mess with the balls to win.  The Patriots owner can talk all he wants about how the organization has cooperated with the investigation but the fact is Brady was uncooperative.  He's a cheat and when he got caught he tried to lie his way out of it.  Really classy to let a couple of locker room attendants take the rap. 

BTW, if it hasn't dawned on you the point is the integrity of the game not whether the Patriots would or wouldn't have won.  I'm surprised, given your Christian training, that isn't clear to you.   They do teach ethics at St John's...right?

I don't believe Mr.Ypsi has any connection to St. John's.

My bad, I believe Ypsi is an IWU'er.  Thanks for catching that. 
My apologies to St John's for the incorrect reference.  I've made the correction to my original post.

[wally_wabash]

I can't speak for Oz's point. But I'd argue the ethics of this whole thing stink. No one has the moral high ground. And if you think your NFL team is squeaky clean, and all the players are choir boys, think again. To say that you think Brady's getting the shaft doesn't mean you think what he probably did was ok. I sure don't. But that doesn't mean everyone's clean. For the NFL, the end doesn't justify the means.

This is the best post on the topic so far.  More often than not, your sports heroes are not who you think they are.  All of the people turning cartwheels because they finally got some dirt to stick to Tom Brady probably don't want to start turning over the stones in the lives (professional or personal) of their own favorite players. 

If I were Brady and I had proof that I did nothing wrong or at least proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that I didn't do what I was being accused of or had knowledge of a rules violation - especially something as ridiculous as PSI in a football - your civil liberties speech aside - I would produce it to save my reputation and end this thing once and for all.

Just no.  The burden of proof is not on the accused.  That's just not how it works here.  Maybe Tom Brady has that evidence that you say exonerates him...and maybe he also doesn't want a snoop hired by the NFL going through his personal business.  Hard to blame him for wanting to keep his personal business, you know, personal.