FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[emma17]

UW-La Crosse 2015 schedule doing what they have to do to get back in the Top 10.
Good job.

You could almost make the case the scheduling up has been a detriment to UWL.
They've played a ton of excellent teams in NC - and have been quite competitive in most of the games- yet it hasn't translated at all to conference success.
Maybe they'd be better off getting some early season victories before entering conference competition.
Recognizing of course there has to be willing partners.

Maybe this is insight into why UWW has trouble scheduling NC teams to be throttled. Perhaps many are unpersuaded by the argument that you need to play the toughest competition you can find to get better.

Agreed.
More and more I find less and less reason for teams to schedule up on any sort of regular basis.
I see the real value of scheduling up to be for the coaches and perhaps administration- so that both can get an up close view of a championship caliber organization.
Schools that play in a conference w perennial national contenders get to see this on an annual basis so why schedule up if you have playoff aspirations?
I tend to believe that Pool C criteria especially could be structured in a way that actually rewards a well played loss to a championship caliber team (more than a bump in SOS). Granted selection subjectivity comes into play even more, but it would be good for the game IMO.

[wally_wabash]

UW-La Crosse 2015 schedule doing what they have to do to get back in the Top 10.
Good job.

You could almost make the case the scheduling up has been a detriment to UWL.
They've played a ton of excellent teams in NC - and have been quite competitive in most of the games- yet it hasn't translated at all to conference success.
Maybe they'd be better off getting some early season victories before entering conference competition.
Recognizing of course there has to be willing partners.

Maybe this is insight into why UWW has trouble scheduling NC teams to be throttled. Perhaps many are unpersuaded by the argument that you need to play the toughest competition you can find to get better.

I won't bog the board down with a full repost, but a couple of months ago I did a fairly lengthy analysis of teams that scheduled UMU (1999-present) and UWW (2005-present) just to see what the actual results say happens to teams that schedule home and homes with the kings of the mountain.  The quick version- nothing really. 
- Teams that were good when they took those games on were still pretty good after those games, but not really any better.  Teams that weren't good, still weren't good after the fact. 
- Only one team on the list has received an at-large selection (WashU, 2013) and even that required some perfectly placed Week 11 dominoes to fall in order to happen.  Being in Pool B didn't hurt either.  Not sure they go in Pool C in 2013. 
- With St. John Fisher being really about the only historical exception, two losses generally eliminates you from playing in the postseason.  So if you play a monster in September and lose, then lose in your league which has to happen for you to be in the at-large pool, the data tell us that you're probably out. 

The one glaring exception to all of that was UWW who did the home and home with Mount Union and then got great.  But the data set tells us that they are the exception, not the rule.  Playing Mount Union certainly didn't hurt them, but there are probably 100 other things that happened in Whitewater that had more influence on their decade of brilliance than just those games with Mount Union.  If a program truly wants to emulate the success of those two programs, they'd be better off sharing information between ADs and coaches in all of the months that aren't football season than playing against them on one Saturday in the fall. 

[emma17]

^^
Well said Wally.

It makes the UWW story all the more intriguing in terms of their rise.
This would be a great question for former coach Brez.

[Pat Coleman]

There's such a small sample size, especially for teams playing Mount Union.

[dachampishere]

I worked for coach Brezowitz from 2002-2005 and and the sunday morning after the first Mount Union game he came into the video room and asked me what I thought and I replied :Coach we have a long way to go to be as good as they are" At the time it was true but it didn't take long as three years later they were in the Stagg Bowl playing Mount Union. The addition of some key recruits who were seniors when they won it all in 2007 helped along with Danny Jones calling coach Leipold in the summer of 2007 saying he wanted to play in a championship game was also very key to the championship building process which has lasted  seven of the last eight years. Will it continue As an alum I sure hope so but coach Bullis has some big shoes to fill in terms of what Lance did at UWW. Will it be duplicated well no one expected Lance to do what he did in eight years so we will see.

[emma17]

I worked for coach Brezowitz from 2002-2005 and and the sunday morning after the first Mount Union game he came into the video room and asked me what I thought and I replied :Coach we have a long way to go to be as good as they are" At the time it was true but it didn't take long as three years later they were in the Stagg Bowl playing Mount Union. The addition of some key recruits who were seniors when they won it all in 2007 helped along with Danny Jones calling coach Leipold in the summer of 2007 saying he wanted to play in a championship game was also very key to the championship building process which has lasted  seven of the last eight years. Will it continue As an alum I sure hope so but coach Bullis has some big shoes to fill in terms of what Lance did at UWW. Will it be duplicated well no one expected Lance to do what he did in eight years so we will see.

That must have been a really interesting time to be around the program.
Do you feel playing Mt had an impact on getting the key recruits that were seniors in 2007?
Did you notice a difference in the operation of the program (practice, organization, etc.) after the Mt games? 

[dachampishere]

In 2002 we played Mt. Union and St. Johns. We also lost three conference games by seven points. So playing Mt. Union helped us in tight games. I think the program and what coach Brezowitz built up as well as the school helped land the recruits who were seniors in 2007. In 2003 We lost to Stevens Point big then got whipped by lacrosse for the conference title. We played Mt. Union that year as well. I think that playing Mt. those two years helped the 03 team as we played and beat St. Xavier and did not play well and did not celebrated the W much in the locker room and will always remember Brez walking in and saying "What the hell is wrong with you guys we just won a ball game.  We also came back and beat River Falls. So it helped again playing Mt. Union in tight ball games.
In 2004 we lost to Plateville by one, Stevens Point by 2 and got Ripped by Lacorsse again for the conference title.
In 2005 we ran the table in conference and came from behind to beat Lacrosse,a dn then came from behind to beat Linfield. In the Stagg Bwl I think we were just happy to be there and if it wasn't for a couple mistakes on the offensive side of the ball we might have beaten Mt. Union that year. Although looking at that game they were the better team. One thing which hurt us I think was we had assistant coaches who wanted to and thought they were in charge, and every conference game was THE BIG GAME for the conference title which got kids nervous and the players played up tight. After talking to some members of the 2007 team they said Lance made it lear that he was totally in charge and that they talked about winning the conference title once the first day of fall camp. Then when they made the playoffs they talked about winning the stagg bowl once the day that the playoffs were announced. They didn't talk about them except those two times.
Do I think playing Mount Union helped yes. Did it pay for for the class of 07 to be in those close games in 04 as sophmores yes, id the division among some of the staff wanting to be in charge hurt us . ABSOLUTELY. Coach Brez has even told me if he could go back he would have made it clear to those coaches that there was one boss and i you didn't like it don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[emma17]

^^
Interesting background, thanks for sharing.
I have to assume the WIAC's stiff competition is the best preparation for success in the playoffs.
Seeing Mt Union helps in that they probably have overall team speed that is superior to all/most other teams. Add in some elite athletes into the Mt mix and seeing that up close gives a coaching staff greater clarity as to how to prepare a team for ultimate success.
If you don't get the players though, the value of scheduling up is highly diluted.

[wally_wabash]

If you don't get the players though, the value of scheduling up is highly diluted.

Yes.  This.  9/10ths of the game is about having the dudes, IMO. 

[emma17]

If you don't get the players though, the value of scheduling up is highly diluted.

Yes.  This.  9/10ths of the game is about having the dudes, IMO.

I agree having the dudes is critical. I'm not sure about the 9/10 though (I know you weren't trying to be precise).
I think of some good teams that I think probably had the dudes but couldn't get it done.
Wesley
Umhb
NCC
To name a few.

[02 Warhawk]

If you don't get the players though, the value of scheduling up is highly diluted.

Yes.  This.  9/10ths of the game is about having the dudes, IMO.

I agree having the dudes is critical. I'm not sure about the 9/10 though (I know you weren't trying to be precise).
I think of some good teams that I think probably had the dudes but couldn't get it done.
Wesley
Umhb
NCC
To name a few.

+K...great point

Wesley for sure. They had a great team last year...but I blame the coaching staff for not mentally preparing that team, which lead to a complete melt down of epic proportions. No way that 70-21 score against Mount Union depicted the talent gap between the two programs.

I posted this before, but I remember watching that game...and following 1 or 2 ints you can see the Wesley WRs throwing fits on the field rather than chasing after the DB to make the tackle. Zero lack of concentration/discipline....which is something you will never see in a Lance Leipold team.

Plus we have a chicken and egg thing here. You can't get good players unless you have good recruiters/coaches. So you can make the argument 9/10 of the game is about having the coaches recruiting those players.

[02 Warhawk]

I think it starts with the administration getting serious about athletics (from the Chancellor down to the AD). This will lead to attractive facilities and capable coaches, and eventually quality players. Then there's other defining factors.....like location of school being an important one in my opinion. As we discussed here many times, UWW has a edge over many other programs around the DIII football world just based on where their campus sits. UWW is the only WIAC school in south eastern WI (close to Chicago, Madison and Milwaukee), where 75%* of the states population lives. Also there's no competing DII or DI (other than UW-Madison) football programs in the state.....Lance has even admitted to this.


* I actually made that number up...but it certainly seems that way, and I bet I'm close to it. 

[badgerwarhawk]

Scroll down and check out Buffalo's schedule poster. 

http://footballscoop.com/news/photos-the-top-14-schedule-posters-of-2015-from-around-college-football/

[bulk19]

Hey Bobo - Let's break it down:

Are you referring to another Griffin Moe, other than the one who is listed under passing efficiency-career and season in the UWL website's football stats?

You are entitled to your opinion about whether he ranks as one of UWL's top 10 QBs all time. But saying it is a worthless measure, and therefore they at UWL don't think it should be included their stats, is erroneous. Sorry, dude, but look at them again...

[BoBo]

Hey Bobo - Let's break it down:

Are you referring to another Griffin Moe, other than the one who is listed under passing efficiency-career and season in the UWL website's football stats?

You are entitled to your opinion about whether he ranks as one of UWL's top 10 QBs all time. But saying it is a worthless measure, and therefore they at UWL don't think it should be included their stats, is erroneous. Sorry, dude, but look at them again...