FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

1. If you include Carthage, Carroll, Concordia and Lakeland as reasonable distance from Milwaukee that UWW completes against for recruits, I think you're full of it. Look at their rosters - mainly out of staters from as far away as that football hotbed of Nigeria (in the case of Lakeland). Very few wisconsinites. So I would say, no, they don't compete against those privates. I think those privates understand they don't stand a very good chance against the likes of UWW, Oshkosh and then to a lesser degree the other WIAC schools to the north and west, especially for players who want to aim high in their football career. UWW's roster is mainly all southeastern WI, with a few exceptions. And the rest from the northern suburbs of Chicago - with a couple exceptions. On a side note, do you really believe those private schools are really going to recruit the type of player Whitewater recruits. Those privates will literally take anyone who can breath - just to get the tuition money. The WIAC, with only 100 player rosters means, they just can't recruit to put someone in a helmet and cleats, they have to be able to play someday, not just pay a ridiculous amount of tuition for 4 years.

I do agree with you, BoBo, that these schools are not recruiting the same types of players.  No question; a football player that wants to compete on the UWW level, and has a serious chance to do so, is probably not also weighing whether to play at Carthage and Concordia.  He might be weighing a partial scholarship from an FCS, D2, or NAIA school, but probably isn't debating "Carthage vs. UWW."

However, you are focusing only on the "player" side, and that neglects an important piece of the recruiting decision: these are not just players, but they are student-athletes making a college decision, not a football decision.  I am not familiar with all of the schools listed and their respective academic prowess, but on the whole, most private schools are not taking "anyone who can breathe just to get the tuition money."  Please go speak with the admissions staff at the University of Chicago if you believe that is the case. Some of those "private schools in the Chicago area" are very selective institutions that (and there's no possible way to say this without coming off like an impossible snob) would probably not admit some of the student-athletes who may be admitted to the WIAC schools.

No cheese curds hurled from this direction.  You make a valid point.  As a public university our mission is different than many of the private schools and our academic standards different as a result.   I was a B average high school student who was weak in science and math.  I'm certain that there are many private schools that would not have admitted me.  Fortunately there was the state university system which would and I think I've done fairly well for myself because of it.  It isn't just the academically elite that need to be educated for society to function.   

[Just Bill]

Cheese curds are way to tasty and valuable to throw at anyone.

[ExTartanPlayer]

No cheese curds hurled from this direction.  You make a valid point.  As a public university our mission is different than many of the private schools and our academic standards different as a result.   I was a B average high school student who was weak in science and math.  I'm certain that there are many private schools that would not have admitted me.  Fortunately there was the state university system which would and I think I've done fairly well for myself because of it.  It isn't just the academically elite that need to be educated for society to function.

And I completely agree with this.  I hesitated to even make my last post because I knew it could be interpreted as a slap at state universities in general or UWW in particular, neither of which is my intent.  I know plenty of guys with degrees from state universities taking home more money than my paycheck, haha (plus, I also am a product of state-sponsored education, as I went on to graduate school at the state-supported University of Pittsburgh), and wholeheartedly agree with the point that education for the masses is important for society to function.  A quick glance through the comments section on a mainstream news article is enough to get that point across...

My point, which you seem to have grasped very well, is merely that the University of Chicago (to name one example) and UWW are fishing in different pools for both athletic and academic reasons, while BoBo's original post only covered one of those bases.  I do appreciate that you took the reply in the manner in which it was intended.

[02 Warhawk]

Over the years, I'm coming across more and more news stories on how "experts" are saying that going to college isn't worth the money (debt) that it used to be. It seems having a college degree nowadays, isn't quite the same as having one 10-20 years ago. These same experts are urging people to into business for themselves and be self starter - or even attend a trade school - rather than paying an obscene amount of money to get an education that doesn't always equate to a well-paying job. This goes for both public and private schools. Of course this is a moot point if you're lucky enough not to have any debt after graduating by not going the financial aid path.

With that being said I wonder if people will eventually gravitate more towards public schools? Just because getting in debt via a private school education won't get you any further in life than if you attended a public school for a 1/3 of the cost. My wife and I both attended UWW, and both are doing well for ourselves. I'm not sure how much more my live would be better if I attended Carroll or Carthage college. I'm sure all private schools are fine institutions, but worth the extra $$$...I'm uncertain about that.

My dad always jokes with me, saying he feels sorry for me when my 6 year old eventually graduates high school. "I can't imagine what college will cost (private or public) for her when she gets old enough." It keeps me up at night sometimes just thinking about it. 

[jknezek]

With that being said I wonder if people will eventually gravitate more towards public schools? Just because getting in debt via a private school education won't get you any further in life than if you attended a public school for a 1/3 of the cost. My wife and I both attended UWW, and both are doing well for ourselves. I'm not sure how much more my live would be better if I attended Carroll or Carthage college.

How much more can they gravitate toward public schools? There are almost 14 million kids in public universities right now as opposed to only 2.75 million in private non-profits There are another 1.75 million in private for profit schools, but that's where I find the real rip off to be and those numbers have dipped dramatically recently after increasing exponentially until about 2010. Public university enrollment is up 40% since about 2000, private non profit about 10-15% over the same period.

Costs (as a percentage of previous costs) for public universities are increasing faster than costs at private non-profits since the recession started in 2008. So while the absolute costs of the private non-profits are still going up faster starting from a much higher base, it's not by much anymore. Most projections have it flipping over soon and year over year increases will be greater at public than private non-profits as we continue to defund the public universities with public funds.

I think the entire scheme of higher education is going to change over the next 20 years, so I wonder in 100 years how many of these fine old institutions will still be standing in their current boarding school format. I'm thinking not many, as these schools with minimal endowment and no public support are going to be too expensive and provide too little benefit to survive and transition to a new model.

[02 Warhawk]

With that being said I wonder if people will eventually gravitate more towards public schools? Just because getting in debt via a private school education won't get you any further in life than if you attended a public school for a 1/3 of the cost. My wife and I both attended UWW, and both are doing well for ourselves. I'm not sure how much more my live would be better if I attended Carroll or Carthage college.

How much more can they gravitate toward public schools? There are almost 14 million kids in public universities right now as opposed to only 2.75 million in private non-profits There are another 1.75 million in private for profit schools, but that's where I find the real rip off to be and those numbers have dipped dramatically recently after increasing exponentially until about 2010. Public university enrollment is up 40% since about 2000, private non profit about 10-15% over the same period.
Costs (as a percentage of previous costs) for public universities are increasing faster than costs at private non-profits since the recession started in 2008. So while the absolute costs of the private non-profits are still going up faster starting from a much higher base, it's not by much anymore. Most projections have it flipping over soon and year over year increases will be greater at public than private non-profits as we continue to defund the public universities with public funds.

I think the entire scheme of higher education is going to change over the next 20 years, so I wonder in 100 years how many of these fine old institutions will still be standing in their current boarding school format. I'm thinking not many, as these schools with minimal endowment and no public support are going to be too expensive and provide too little benefit to survive and transition to a new model.

Based on what you provided, looks like that trend is already occurring. I didn't have the numbers in front of me, so I wasn't sure where it stood these days.

I'm right with you about higher education changing soon, especially with the inflating tuition costs.

[ExTartanPlayer]

My dad always jokes with me, saying he feels sorry for me when my 6 year old eventually graduates high school. "I can't imagine what college will cost (private or public) for her when she gets old enough." It keeps me up at night sometimes just thinking about it. 

I just got engaged a week ago, am at least 2-3 years from having kids and it keeps me up at night!

[02 Warhawk]

My dad always jokes with me, saying he feels sorry for me when my 6 year old eventually graduates high school. "I can't imagine what college will cost (private or public) for her when she gets old enough." It keeps me up at night sometimes just thinking about it. 

I just got engaged a week ago, am at least 2-3 years from having kids and it keeps me up at night!

Awesome. congrats!

[jknezek]

My dad always jokes with me, saying he feels sorry for me when my 6 year old eventually graduates high school. "I can't imagine what college will cost (private or public) for her when she gets old enough." It keeps me up at night sometimes just thinking about it. 

I just got engaged a week ago, am at least 2-3 years from having kids and it keeps me up at night!

Forget college. Wait until you see the costs of nursery and pre-school. That is more than enough to keep you in the poor house with no chance to save for college.

And congratulations. After marriage and pre-kids were my favorite years. I love my kids, but it'll be a long time once you have them before you can enjoy those carefree nights with just you and your wife...

[GoldandBlueBU]

My dad always jokes with me, saying he feels sorry for me when my 6 year old eventually graduates high school. "I can't imagine what college will cost (private or public) for her when she gets old enough." It keeps me up at night sometimes just thinking about it. 

I just got engaged a week ago, am at least 2-3 years from having kids and it keeps me up at night!

Forget college. Wait until you see the costs of nursery and pre-school. That is more than enough to keep you in the poor house with no chance to save for college.

And congratulations. After marriage and pre-kids were my favorite years. I love my kids, but it'll be a long time once you have them before you can enjoy those carefree nights with just you and your wife...

Couldn't agree more.  I love our 18 month old more than I thought possible, but it impossible to not take for granted the freedom that you have before kids...

And daycare at $1,200 a month is still a bargain compared to college.

[jknezek]

My dad always jokes with me, saying he feels sorry for me when my 6 year old eventually graduates high school. "I can't imagine what college will cost (private or public) for her when she gets old enough." It keeps me up at night sometimes just thinking about it. 

I just got engaged a week ago, am at least 2-3 years from having kids and it keeps me up at night!

Forget college. Wait until you see the costs of nursery and pre-school. That is more than enough to keep you in the poor house with no chance to save for college.

And congratulations. After marriage and pre-kids were my favorite years. I love my kids, but it'll be a long time once you have them before you can enjoy those carefree nights with just you and your wife...

Couldn't agree more.  I love our 18 month old more than I thought possible, but it impossible to not take for granted the freedom that you have before kids...

And daycare at $1,200 a month is still a bargain compared to college.

Yes it is. But I have twin boys and a 5.5 year old girl. It made more sense for my wife to quit work than to pay over $35K a year in childcare, pretax. Now that my daughter hit kindergarten we are scouting around, but still need to cover over $20K a year in childcare. 

Back to the boards, however. Thankfully D3 football games are cheap!

[WarhawkDad]

RF has 6 freshmen from LaCrosse/Holmen, including a couple with good reputations as h.s. players (Serauskas comes to mind). Does that say anything about UWL's inability to land local players? Whatever the reason, it's unusual to see that many from a location which also has a WIAC school nearby. There are 133 total players listed on the football website, a sizable number of recruits, probably the most in Coach Walker's tenure.

Fred

I truly do not mean this as a dis of RF, but it could be that at least a couple of the kids think that they could see playing time sooner and then as a couple made decisions the others followed.   RF in my opinion is becoming more competitive and is getting new facilities and that also helps in recruiting.

WarhawkDad

[AndOne]

*If UW-W has so much more money available than privates, why is UW-W bussing to Jackson, MS (an 11 hour 28 minute drive without traffic per Google Maps) while Wesley College is flying to Chicago (an 11 hour 32 minute driver without traffic per Google Maps)?

Ha, I think the answer, or at least a big portion of the answer, to that question night be found here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/08/12/scott_walker_s_basketball_stadium_finance_bill_the_wisconsin_governor_just.html

The arena part at least actually has nothing to do with it since that funding (only about $80 million after interest) comes from bonding (future funds) not present funding that was cut. But the "cut school funding and gave it to a basketball team" storyline is better for more people's agendas then the actual facts.

As far as actual facts Master, its true that only $80 million from state funds will go to the new Bucks arena, but that doesn't change the fact that $250 million was cut from the U of Wisconsin system, which of course includes the state schools not located in Mad City. The Wisconsin governor is no friend higher public education.

[palum]

I remember Michael Zweifel (Gagliardi Trophy winner) went to Whitewater high school, but selected to attend River Falls.... before ending up at Dubuque. I believe a lot of his decission making had to do where his dad was (and wasn't) coaching at that time.

WR Tony Bilderback also went to Whitewater H.S. but is currently a SR at UWL.

Zweifel going to UWW would've created a highly awkward situation considering his father's bad vibes toward Plinski coming out of the coaching hiring. You knew that wasn't going to happen. Nobody wanted to go through that drama. Do you really think he would have gone to River Falls had his dad not been coaching there and had a hand in changing from the bone to a pass first, pass often offense. That is the time they scrapped the bone, right?

Yes

I'm not speaking for the Zweifel family but didn't Coach Z graduate from & play for River Falls and I seem to recall that one of his daughters was a track All American for the Falcons.   

[AndOne]

My dad always jokes with me, saying he feels sorry for me when my 6 year old eventually graduates high school. "I can't imagine what college will cost (private or public) for her when she gets old enough." It keeps me up at night sometimes just thinking about it. 

I just got engaged a week ago, am at least 2-3 years from having kids and it keeps me up at night!

Forget college. Wait until you see the costs of nursery and pre-school. That is more than enough to keep you in the poor house with no chance to save for college.

And congratulations. After marriage and pre-kids were my favorite years. I love my kids, but it'll be a long time once you have them before you can enjoy those carefree nights with just you and your wife...

Boy is that ever the truth! I'm fortunate to have a fair number of friends who are a few years out of college, and are either recently married or engaged. Whenever the subject of kids comes up I always advise them to have some fun/take some trips, within reasonable budgetary limitations of course, pre-kids because once you have kids a huge chunk of both your money and your time is going to be spent tending to their needs. And jknezek says, it will be a long time before you and your spousal unit will again be in position to be as carefree as you were before the little bundles of love began arriving.