FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[ExTartanPlayer]

+K I have to admit that I love the MACtion because I'm a big college football fan and if it's on at any level, I'll likely watch it over anything else. And even on weird night having the exclusive window is big.

Same.  I don't pay full freight for cable TV, so I only have the major networks, but when I was still in HS/college and living with my parents, I'd flip through the channels until I saw "college football" almost no matter who was playing.  Ball State vs. Eastern Michigan?  Sure, why not?

This is why ESPN has started all of the weekday-night contracts with small leagues.  People love football.  A football fan at home on a Tuesday night that flips through the channels and sees "college football" is going to turn that on.  That MACtion probably doubles up the ratings of whatever else ESPN could offer up in that time slot.

Moving this to D3, though, let's make this an open question: is there any way for D3 programs (like UWO) to leverage this kind of thinking to its advantage?  Unfortunately, I'm guessing the answer is no.  Playing games during the week is probably a non-starter at D3 schools (as it should be) and Friday nights are presumably prime time for HS football.  Playing on Sunday is also probably a no-go and, even so, you're going to lose to people who want to stay home and watch the NFL.  I think D3 ball is stuck with Saturday afternoons as the best time to play.  I think the occasional night game is good for a one-time attendance boost - my alma mater has always drawn well for night games because of the novelty, I think - but you can't go to that well every week, either.

[WarhawkDad]

This is going to be completely off the rails of WIAC but since you mentioned Central Michigan, what do you think of the MAC teams playing many games on Tuesday/Wednesday nights? That can't really help attendance. Or does it because they aren't competing with any of the teams you mention?

Better than anything else on T.V. on Tuesday/Wednesday and as an NIU alum, I really like it.   

[Mr. Ypsi]

ExTP, if you think CMU has it tough being an hour from MSU, try being EMU ten minutes from the Big House!   They would kill to have crowds of 15,000; they average less than some D3 teams.  Add in that the last time they ever went to a bowl game, UCal immediately 'stole' their coach, and it seems pretty hopeless.  They pretty regularly hand out free tickets - and the tickets don't even get used!

[Just Bill]

UWEC decides not to renew head coach Glaser:

https://twitter.com/JustusCleveland/status/666345155985674240

https://twitter.com/JustusCleveland/status/666345501210578946

[cubs]

Figured this was relevant after recent discussions....

[02 Warhawk]

UWEC decides not to renew head coach Glaser:

https://twitter.com/JustusCleveland/status/666345155985674240

https://twitter.com/JustusCleveland/status/666345501210578946

Looks like the change some UWEC fans asked for are coming.

[emma17]

Figured this was relevant after recent discussions....

Hopefully that will work.  I know UWW has done something similar in the past, but we are still left scratching our heads as to why more students don't attend the playoff games.   

Anyway, enough about your problems  - I don't see UWW's game as a walk in the park vs. St. Norbert.  They have quite a few kids from strong high school teams in IL along with their WI kids.  In addition, it looks like they have the dreaded read option type QB- and a good one at that.       

[Gregory Sager]

particularly in the smaller divisions and particularly at a school like UWO whose population is 2/3rds commuters.)

Do you have a source to confirm that, or are you just fighting an overstatement with bigger, better overstatement?

Here's my source. Scroll down to the "Campus Life" header, "Housing" subheader.

[DuffMan]

Why is UWO playing at 3:00 pm?  I was under the impression that playoff games all started at noon local time.

[Gregory Sager]

Even though I've been razzing on the wizard a bit, there should definitely be excitement in the UWO Program, and in the WIAC in general, of course. I agree with ExTartanPlayer. Did Mount believe UWW was actually going to show up year in and year out? Or were they St. John's with a one year and gone. The previous history is just that.

This, actually could be a mild example. St John's has been in the discussion as to the top D III programs over the past 50 - 60 years.

D3 football is only 43 years old.

(Just being even-handed when it comes to "sissifying" (BoBo's term) this board. )

[02 Warhawk]

Why is UWO playing at 3:00 pm?  I was under the impression that playoff games all started at noon local time.

Because it allows their coaching staff and players to post on d3boards during the noon games. So they can quickly deactivate their account before kickoff at 3:00 p.m.

[Just Bill]

Why is UWO playing at 3:00 pm?  I was under the impression that playoff games all started at noon local time.

I suspect it's because UW-Oshkosh is also hosting the cross country national championships on the same day. Those races are at 11:00 and 12:30 about 25 minutes from campus. I imagine they requested the later start time so they can adequately staff both events.

[Just Bill]

particularly in the smaller divisions and particularly at a school like UWO whose population is 2/3rds commuters.)

Do you have a source to confirm that, or are you just fighting an overstatement with bigger, better overstatement?

Here's my source. Scroll down to the "Campus Life" header, "Housing" subheader.

Not to take sides, but 32% of students living in campus-owned housing does not equal 2/3 of students being commuters. There's likely a whole lot of students living very close to campus in privately owned apartments, right? If I'm walking to class from an apartment right across the street from a residence hall, I'm not a commuter.

[Gregory Sager]

As a former player and alum of UWO the attendance issue has been a sore spot since well before I played there. When I was playing we were celebrating the program's 100th anniversary. We even had key chains made to hand out to the crowd! There was talk that the administration had made a huge promotional push and we were going to get 6,000 - 7,000 people for homecoming that year. I remember coming out of the locker room for the coin toss and seeing our usual 1,500 people and being disappointed. We were bad in the early 90s, but that wasn't the reason for a lack of attendance. There are factors that are problematic (the biggest being the stadium being off campus), but the biggest reason for lack of attendance (in all sports) is that students just aren't that invested in the university. Coming from Chicago, I was surprised how much my teammates cared about their former high schools and, especially, the Badgers. We would be in the locker room and often it would feel like guys were be more concerned with the Badger game than ours. If players are thinking about the Badgers, I'm sure the regular student body is too. In Wisconsin, at least in my 4-1/2 years, the pecking order for what students cared about was the Packers, Badgers, deer hunting, their high school community, their university (if it wasn't Madison). I'm very jealous of the fan base at Whitewater. I'm hopeful that we can build something similar at Oshkosh. Believe me, UWW was in the hunt for conference titles when I played at Oshkosh, and Perkins Stadium wasn't any more filled than Titan Stadium was. LAX won two national titles around my time at Oshkosh, and even those teams only drew 4,000 fans. I will say this, I will take winning a conference title in front of 1,500 fans any day rather than losing in front of a sellout crowd. Hopefully some day soon, Titan attendance can match the level of the product their putting on the field.

This is a great post from somebody who played for the UWO program and still follows it. I would only add that one of the truisms of college sports is that commuter undergraduates are typically far less likely to follow and/or participate in their school's activities, including attending sporting events. That's why I mentioned the fact that UWO has such a high commuter population in my original post to BoBo. Commuters typically have jobs (many full-time, the vast majority of the rest part-time), family concerns, are often older than the resident-student 18-21 range, etc. These things all mitigate their interest in, or willingness to attend, things like D3 football games. For resident undergraduates, getting plugged into the many activities taking place on campus is all a part of why they are resident students in the first place. It's all about soaking in the full college experience -- and watching the school's football games is often a big part of that experience. The typical commuter student simply doesn't have that sort of emotional investment in his or her school. They're much more likely to view college as a means to an end.

I remember a basketball version of this exact same conversation taking place a dozen years ago when the Titans had a really good basketball team (the Tim Dworak era). UWO games at Kolf were perpetually underattended, and people kept asking why. Well, the nature of the school's student body certainly had something to do with it. The D3 factors to which UWO Titan 78 and XTP allude ("Why should I care about my school's rinky-dink D3 team when I've spent my whole life rooting for Big State U., just like all my friends and family?") certainly play into it as well. There's also the additional problem that UWO lacks the personal touch that small schools enjoy, in the sense that as a UWO student you're far less likely to know a Titans football player, since he's one of 12,000 other UWO students, than you are to know a football player if you attended, say, Wheaton or Mount Union, where there's only 2,200 students and the odds are that a football player is in one of your classes or lives next door to you in the dorm.

UWO could probably do a better job of drawing townies. Oshkosh has 66,000 people, and there are several other small cities nearby. I've gotta think that there's lots of people in the Sawdust City who would love to watch a good live football game. Again, though, you're dealing with a situation in which you have to sell the idea that a D3 football game, no matter how well-regarded the Titans are on that level among people in the know (i.e., us ), is a viable entertainment alternative to the Badgers or deer hunting. We all know that the public at large is not exactly impressed by D3 sports. The common perception is that D3 sports are not of a high quality, a perception that those of us who follow this level rightly regard as sheer ignorance on the part of the general public.

Not to take sides, but 32% of students living in campus-owned housing does not equal 2/3 of students being commuters. There's likely a whole lot of students living very close to campus in privately owned apartments, right? If I'm walking to class from an apartment right across the street from a residence hall, I'm not a commuter.

Well, technically you are still a commuter. But I agree that you're a different type of commuter than the type that I described above.

Even so, I'd argue that if you're paying for privately-owned housing rather than for the school's room and board, the odds are higher that mom and dad aren't footing the bill, if you'll pardon the expression. And if you're working, you're not eating in a campus dining hall, you're most likely older, etc., chances are lessened that you have time or interest in school activities like attending football games.

[OzJohnnie]

To save you all some time. Good fun over here on this board.

commuter
kəˈmjuːtə(r)/
noun
noun: commuter; plural noun: commuters
a person who travels some distance to work on a regular basis.
"a fault on the line caused widespread delays for commuters"
synonyms:   daily traveller, traveller, passenger; More
informalstraphanger, suburbanite
"railway engineering works caused widespread delays for commuters"