FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

There is no non-conference model for the WIAC teams. If you can get somebody to agree to play you, you do it. Oshkosh wanted 10 games. They couldn't get anybody to play them. I'm not sure teams will start lining up begging Whitewater to play them now that they're coming off a 7-3 season either.

I realize N-C games can be tough to get. My point is, it potentially better serves a WIAC school to play Lynchburg and nobody, instead of IWU and C-M. Would an 8-1 UWW team be playing football this weekend?

Yes, an 8-1 UWW team would be in the playoffs.
That said, if you're a college football player, with only four years to get it all in, would you rather play a 10-game schedule with IWU and C-M, or a 9-game schedule including Lynchburg? Imo, players want to play.

UWO Titan,
You said you're not sure teams will start lining up to play UWW now. I'm not either, but I remember before this season some of us felt UWW was having an easier time scheduling non-con games because some within D3 perhaps saw a chink in the armor. In fact, we commented that 2017 was a very sensible time for programs on the rise to schedule a UWW. It may turn out the same for 2018. 

IWU and C-M both benefited in 2017, yet they were both five yards away from a potential non conference loss. I guess my own rule would be, if you're in a top 4ish conference, you're better off trying to schedule middle of the road teams from good conferences, or top teams from the weaker conferences.

If it had been easier for us to schedule in 2017 we wouldn't have been playing two programs that were single game deals.  From my conversations with the staff I'm told there was nothing easier about filling this year's schedule and we were fortunate IWU stepped up or there is a strong likelihood we would have had a nine game season as well. 

[emma17]

Wow, 29 games started- that's great no matter where you played.

[emma17]

There is no non-conference model for the WIAC teams. If you can get somebody to agree to play you, you do it. Oshkosh wanted 10 games. They couldn't get anybody to play them. I'm not sure teams will start lining up begging Whitewater to play them now that they're coming off a 7-3 season either.

I realize N-C games can be tough to get. My point is, it potentially better serves a WIAC school to play Lynchburg and nobody, instead of IWU and C-M. Would an 8-1 UWW team be playing football this weekend?

Yes, an 8-1 UWW team would be in the playoffs.
That said, if you're a college football player, with only four years to get it all in, would you rather play a 10-game schedule with IWU and C-M, or a 9-game schedule including Lynchburg? Imo, players want to play.

UWO Titan,
You said you're not sure teams will start lining up to play UWW now. I'm not either, but I remember before this season some of us felt UWW was having an easier time scheduling non-con games because some within D3 perhaps saw a chink in the armor. In fact, we commented that 2017 was a very sensible time for programs on the rise to schedule a UWW. It may turn out the same for 2018. 

IWU and C-M both benefited in 2017, yet they were both five yards away from a potential non conference loss. I guess my own rule would be, if you're in a top 4ish conference, you're better off trying to schedule middle of the road teams from good conferences, or top teams from the weaker conferences.

If it had been easier for us to schedule in 2017 we wouldn't have been playing two programs that were single game deals.  From my conversations with the staff I'm told there was nothing easier about filling this year's schedule and we were fortunate IWU stepped up or there is a strong likelihood we would have had a nine game season as well.

Hmmm, I wonder. Would C-M and IWU have scheduled UWW in 2014 if they had the open dates?
I truly don't know.

[Mr. Ypsi]

There is no non-conference model for the WIAC teams. If you can get somebody to agree to play you, you do it. Oshkosh wanted 10 games. They couldn't get anybody to play them. I'm not sure teams will start lining up begging Whitewater to play them now that they're coming off a 7-3 season either.

I realize N-C games can be tough to get. My point is, it potentially better serves a WIAC school to play Lynchburg and nobody, instead of IWU and C-M. Would an 8-1 UWW team be playing football this weekend?

Yes, an 8-1 UWW team would be in the playoffs.
That said, if you're a college football player, with only four years to get it all in, would you rather play a 10-game schedule with IWU and C-M, or a 9-game schedule including Lynchburg? Imo, players want to play.

UWO Titan,
You said you're not sure teams will start lining up to play UWW now. I'm not either, but I remember before this season some of us felt UWW was having an easier time scheduling non-con games because some within D3 perhaps saw a chink in the armor. In fact, we commented that 2017 was a very sensible time for programs on the rise to schedule a UWW. It may turn out the same for 2018. 

IWU and C-M both benefited in 2017, yet they were both five yards away from a potential non conference loss. I guess my own rule would be, if you're in a top 4ish conference, you're better off trying to schedule middle of the road teams from good conferences, or top teams from the weaker conferences.

If it had been easier for us to schedule in 2017 we wouldn't have been playing two programs that were single game deals.  From my conversations with the staff I'm told there was nothing easier about filling this year's schedule and we were fortunate IWU stepped up or there is a strong likelihood we would have had a nine game season as well.

Hmmm, I wonder. Would C-M and IWU have scheduled UWW in 2014 if they had the open dates?
I truly don't know.

Well, if I was doing the scheduling, IWU wouldn't have scheduled them even THIS year - but my impression is that Stormin' Norman (aka, IWU coach Eash) will play anyone anywhere.  Going into the game I just hoped to keep within 20 of UWW!

Agree with your philosophy for teams in the toughest conferences - try to schedule middle of other top conferences or top of weaker conferences.  Eash this year scheduled #2 of the toughest conference of them all, plus bottom of the IIAC!   Since sharing a conference with NCC and Wheaton, we are almost guaranteed at least one conference loss (we've beaten them BOTH in a season exactly ONCE this millennium!), non-con losses can be fatal (as NCC has discovered a couple of times).

[emma17]

IWU has had a tremendous season. I remember the way they played UWW. They played hard-nosed football with great technique. I hope they go far. That darn tight end slant over the middle was a killer. Hmm, slant route, I wonder if UWW ever thought of that (sorry, had to, just had to).

Ypsi, you said you wouldn't have scheduled UWW this year. But, would you schedule them next year?

[Mr. Ypsi]

IWU has had a tremendous season. I remember the way they played UWW. They played hard-nosed football with great technique. I hope they go far. That darn tight end slant over the middle was a killer. Hmm, slant route, I wonder if UWW ever thought of that (sorry, had to, just had to).

Ypsi, you said you wouldn't have scheduled UWW this year. But, would you schedule them next year?

I, too (of course), hope they go far.  I'm reasonably confident hosting 10-0 CWRU, but then we would go to that place CCIW teams go to die: Alliance, Ohio.  Since I had no hope against UWW, I won't repeat that mistake and have NO hope against UMU.

As to your question, I just don't know the roster (or your returnees) well enough to say.  We will graduate the CCIW DPOY (who is from, of all places, Wheaton - someone there is in big trouble, not keeping him home! )  I'm guessing that UWW just had a blip, rather than a decline, so until we can consistently beat BOTH NCC and Wheaton, probably not.  Until you are truly elite, risking a non-con loss when you probably will have at least one conference loss just doesn't work out.

[gbpuckfan]

SNC also has five playoff losses to state Schools since 2000, IIRC. My overall point, though, was if a traditionally decent SNC team isn't beating a WIAC school, LU and Knox aren't either. 

[emma17]

Ypsi, I know it's too soon to talk about next week so I'll just leave it at this. The key to having a shot at Mt is making them beat you (I know, genius). IWU looks like a very disciplined team that pays attention to the details. That bodes well.

As to scheduling UWW, I see your point as it relates to IWU. IWU got what they needed out of UWW this year (users). I'm thinking of teams like Carthage or Millikan or maybe Elmhurst. Given UWW's three year record, 2018 may make scheduling sense.

[gbpuckfan]

True but Norbies haven't played WIAC much. Before the UWSP home-and-home this year and last, SNC last played a WIAC home-and-home in '04 and '05 (UWW), before that was UWO in '00. They do have home-and-homes booked for '18 and '19 vs Eau Claire, and '20 and '21 vs. Stout, going forward. I got em as a touchdown favorite at the Blugolds next Sept 8, so look for em to get off the millennial schneid vs WIAC!

from the game notes before the SNC/UWSP game... seems I underestimated a bit:

The Green Knights have lost 20 consecutive games against the WIAC since a 25-7 win over UW-Platteville on Nov. 5, 1983 in De Pere.
St. Norbert owns at least one win over all eight current WIAC members and is 80-78-8 all-time against the league.

[WW]

True but Norbies haven't played WIAC much. Before the UWSP home-and-home this year and last, SNC last played a WIAC home-and-home in '04 and '05 (UWW), before that was UWO in '00. They do have home-and-homes booked for '18 and '19 vs Eau Claire, and '20 and '21 vs. Stout, going forward. I got em as a touchdown favorite at the Blugolds next Sept 8, so look for em to get off the millennial schneid vs WIAC!

from the game notes before the SNC/UWSP game... seems I underestimated a bit:

The Green Knights have lost 20 consecutive games against the WIAC since a 25-7 win over UW-Platteville on Nov. 5, 1983 in De Pere.
St. Norbert owns at least one win over all eight current WIAC members and is 80-78-8 all-time against the league.

Well, dang. But I'm confident they start a winning streak next September.

Re UWO and UWW scheduling, are D2s in play? I may be wrong, but there would appear to be no excuse for entering the summer, scrambling to schedule not only a third N-C game, but a second. Yeah I get nobody wants to play a national powerhouse in N-C. But other WIACs have scheduled N-C games 4 years out. In 2014 UWO was 6-4. That shouldn't have scared anybody.

Just feels like they dropped the ball here.

[jknezek]

True but Norbies haven't played WIAC much. Before the UWSP home-and-home this year and last, SNC last played a WIAC home-and-home in '04 and '05 (UWW), before that was UWO in '00. They do have home-and-homes booked for '18 and '19 vs Eau Claire, and '20 and '21 vs. Stout, going forward. I got em as a touchdown favorite at the Blugolds next Sept 8, so look for em to get off the millennial schneid vs WIAC!

from the game notes before the SNC/UWSP game... seems I underestimated a bit:

The Green Knights have lost 20 consecutive games against the WIAC since a 25-7 win over UW-Platteville on Nov. 5, 1983 in De Pere.
St. Norbert owns at least one win over all eight current WIAC members and is 80-78-8 all-time against the league.

Well, dang. But I'm confident they start a winning streak next September.

Re UWO and UWW scheduling, are D2s in play? I may be wrong, but there would appear to be no excuse for entering the summer, scrambling to schedule not only a third N-C game, but a second. Yeah I get nobody wants to play a national powerhouse in N-C. But other WIACs have scheduled N-C games 4 years out. In 2014 UWO was 6-4. That shouldn't have scared anybody.

Just feels like they dropped the ball here.

I don't think you have the context for this. Robert-Morris went 8-3 in a brutal NAIA conference, Marian, in Robert-Morris' conference was the NAIA national runner up, South Dakota State was the only blowout and they lost in the second round of the FCS playoffs by 3 to the eventual National Champion, and Whitewater was the DIII National Champion.

So of those 4 losses, 2 teams played in National Title games for their division, and South Dakota State almost beat their National Champion. Robert-Morris was the only non-playoff team and they actually defeated Marion in the regular season.

6-4 sure. But you need to look deeper. That UWO team would scare almost anyone in DIII outside the true elites.

[emma17]

True but Norbies haven't played WIAC much. Before the UWSP home-and-home this year and last, SNC last played a WIAC home-and-home in '04 and '05 (UWW), before that was UWO in '00. They do have home-and-homes booked for '18 and '19 vs Eau Claire, and '20 and '21 vs. Stout, going forward. I got em as a touchdown favorite at the Blugolds next Sept 8, so look for em to get off the millennial schneid vs WIAC!

from the game notes before the SNC/UWSP game... seems I underestimated a bit:

The Green Knights have lost 20 consecutive games against the WIAC since a 25-7 win over UW-Platteville on Nov. 5, 1983 in De Pere.
St. Norbert owns at least one win over all eight current WIAC members and is 80-78-8 all-time against the league.

Well, dang. But I'm confident they start a winning streak next September.

Re UWO and UWW scheduling, are D2s in play? I may be wrong, but there would appear to be no excuse for entering the summer, scrambling to schedule not only a third N-C game, but a second. Yeah I get nobody wants to play a national powerhouse in N-C. But other WIACs have scheduled N-C games 4 years out. In 2014 UWO was 6-4. That shouldn't have scared anybody.

Just feels like they dropped the ball here.

There's a poster named Merle sounds a lot like you. 
FYI, the reason UWO went 6-4 is because they lost 3 games to non D3 schools. They missed the playoffs with only one D3 loss and were very good.
UWO has been very good since 2011, D3 teams know that.

I know nothing about the intracacies or scheduling, but this much I'm sure of:
The head coach would love to have the hassle of scheduling put to bed long before the summer. The head coach wants to get 10 games every season because games are the reason kids join the football team. The head coach likely sees very little value in scheduling ultra weak teams, but ultimately has to balance that with making sure there are games to be played for the kids.
My best guess is we have to give the head coach the ultimate benefit of the doubt that he is doing everything he can to properly schedule.

[WW]

True but Norbies haven't played WIAC much. Before the UWSP home-and-home this year and last, SNC last played a WIAC home-and-home in '04 and '05 (UWW), before that was UWO in '00. They do have home-and-homes booked for '18 and '19 vs Eau Claire, and '20 and '21 vs. Stout, going forward. I got em as a touchdown favorite at the Blugolds next Sept 8, so look for em to get off the millennial schneid vs WIAC!

from the game notes before the SNC/UWSP game... seems I underestimated a bit:

The Green Knights have lost 20 consecutive games against the WIAC since a 25-7 win over UW-Platteville on Nov. 5, 1983 in De Pere.
St. Norbert owns at least one win over all eight current WIAC members and is 80-78-8 all-time against the league.

Well, dang. But I'm confident they start a winning streak next September.

Re UWO and UWW scheduling, are D2s in play? I may be wrong, but there would appear to be no excuse for entering the summer, scrambling to schedule not only a third N-C game, but a second. Yeah I get nobody wants to play a national powerhouse in N-C. But other WIACs have scheduled N-C games 4 years out. In 2014 UWO was 6-4. That shouldn't have scared anybody.

Just feels like they dropped the ball here.

There's a poster named Merle sounds a lot like you. 
FYI, the reason UWO went 6-4 is because they lost 3 games to non D3 schools. They missed the playoffs with only one D3 loss and were very good.
UWO has been very good since 2011, D3 teams know that.

I know nothing about the intracacies or scheduling, but this much I'm sure of:
The head coach would love to have the hassle of scheduling put to bed long before the summer. The head coach wants to get 10 games every season because games are the reason kids join the football team. The head coach likely sees very little value in scheduling ultra weak teams, but ultimately has to balance that with making sure there are games to be played for the kids.
My best guess is we have to give the head coach the ultimate benefit of the doubt that he is doing everything he can to properly schedule.

Fair enough re context of UWO's 6-4 in 2014. But there are other highly regarded D3s. Are there any that didn't get 10 games scheduled this season?

If playing up (D2, FCS -- NAIA? C'mon...) was an option in 2014, I'll presume it still is today.

Question: isn't this the AD's job? I'm not putting this on Cerroni unless I know it's his responsibility.

[wally_wabash]

Fair enough re context of UWO's 6-4 in 2014. But there are other highly regarded D3s. Are there any that didn't get 10 games scheduled this season?

Oshkosh is a long, expensive trip for most of the division.  There's not a ton of upside for basically anybody to go play there.  Aside from being a huge competitive disadvantage, Oshkosh's geography is as big a hurdle as anything else. 

If playing up (D2, FCS -- NAIA? C'mon...) was an option in 2014, I'll presume it still is today.

Of course it is, but the last time they went that route, they didn't get to play in the D3 tournament because of it.  More than any other team in the division, I can't believe that Oshkosh would even entertain D2 or FCS games ever again.  There's just no upside. 

[UWO Titan 78]

I don't know much about scheduling, but I heard this year that UWO was offering upwards of $25,000 to schools to come play us, and got no takers. There was even an agreement with a fake university (Faith) that fields a football team, but this got nixed because of backlash. The game with Lynchberg wasn't finalized until a few weeks before the season. When I got my schedule in the mail from the League of Titans, it only had 8 games on it. Finlandia, who had several openings (and we played a few years ago), didn't want to play. Rockford had an opening, but chose to fill it with Robert Morris' club team. I don't know how many NCAA D2 schools would risk a loss (not saying the Titans would win, but I would imagine they would be competitive with unranked D2 schools). We proved that we're below scholarship FCS schools. The non-scholarship Pioneer League would seem to be a good fit. Scheduling problems (and budgets) forced us to play non-conference games against fellow WIAC teams. We don't want to revisit that again. I don't expect a full slate of 10 games next year. Winning conference will help recruiting, but having less than a full schedule will hurt it. Perhaps if Pool C bids put a premium on playing ranked teams, this would interest more match-ups with top teams. I'm not sure what the answer is.