FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[bleedpurple]

Ypsi, I know it's too soon to talk about next week so I'll just leave it at this. The key to having a shot at Mt is making them beat you (I know, genius). IWU looks like a very disciplined team that pays attention to the details. That bodes well.

As to scheduling UWW, I see your point as it relates to IWU. IWU got what they needed out of UWW this year (users). I'm thinking of teams like Carthage or Millikan or maybe Elmhurst. Given UWW's three year record, 2018 may make scheduling sense.

UW-W's 3 year record is 31-6, including a record of 19-2 in the WIAC. The combined season records of the teams they lost to (in the season of the loss) were 65-7. The three losses prior to this season were to a national quarterfinalist (and we were the team to keep them out of the semi's), a national semi-finalist, and a national champion. UW-W also beat the national runner-up last year.  Of course, this season's story isn't written,yet.  The WORST season record of an opponent that beat UW-W in the last three years is Concordia-Moorehead's 8-2 2017 season.  While I would love to think Carthage or Millikan or Elmhurst would schedule us, it's doubtful that three year record is all that encouraging to them. 

Plus earlier, you queried as to whether C-M or IWU would have scheduled UW-W in 2014. The thing to remember is that these games are scheduled in advance whenever possible. I guess it depends on how they felt about the game in around 2012 or so. I know for sure that C-M agreed to the current home and home series after the conclusion of the 2014 season and before the 2015 season started.

Overall, I continue to be concerned about the ability of UW-W and UW-O to schedule games. I would have liked to have seen C-M make the playoffs this year for that reason. If a team risks a possible loss which hurts playoff chances by scheduling a UW-W or a UW-O, it would sure be nice if the upside included heavy playoff consideration if they actually WIN said game.

[thunderdog]

UW-W's 3 year record is 31-6, including a record of 19-2 in the WIAC. The combined season records of the teams they lost to (in the season of the loss) were 65-7. The three losses prior to this season were to a national quarterfinalist (and we were the team to keep them out of the semi's), a national semi-finalist, and a national champion. UW-W also beat the national runner-up last year.  Of course, this season's story isn't written,yet.  The WORST season record of an opponent that beat UW-W in the last three years is Concordia-Moorehead's 8-2 2017 season.  While I would love to think Carthage or Millikan or Elmhurst would schedule us, it's doubtful that three year record is all that encouraging to them. 

Plus earlier, you queried as to whether C-M or IWU would have scheduled UW-W in 2014. The thing to remember is that these games are scheduled in advance whenever possible. I guess it depends on how they felt about the game in around 2012 or so. I know for sure that C-M agreed to the current home and home series after the conclusion of the 2014 season and before the 2015 season started.

Overall, I continue to be concerned about the ability of UW-W and UW-O to schedule games. I would have liked to have seen C-M make the playoffs this year for that reason. If a team risks a possible loss which hurts playoff chances by scheduling a UW-W or a UW-O, it would sure be nice if the upside included heavy playoff consideration if they actually WIN said game.

Bleed,

I realize your argument was in regards to C-M, but let me turn your attention to IWU. All said and done, I'd argue that IWU didn't get any extra playoff consideration bump for playing 7-3 UWW. Going into the final week, IWU sat at 8-1 the same as 8-1 DePauw. Similar resumes, right? Nope, not even close. IWU had wins over UWW, Wheaton, Carthage, and Millikin with a competitive loss to NCC. DePauw had a 46 point blowout loss to Wittenberg and before their victory loss over to Wabash, not sure who you'd say their best win was against. My point? Why was DePauw ranked ahead of IWU going into the final week. It's very conceivable that if DePauw's back-up QB doesn't fumble the ball going in for the go-ahead score and DePauw beat Wabash, that DePauw would have remained ahead of IWU in the final rankings, meaning IWU would have been much more of a "bubble" team to make the field of 32 (yes, I still think they would have made it). Where's the consideration for IWU for getting an extremely high quality non-conference win over national power UWW? I'm not seeing it...

Now imagine this. Let's assume Wheaton doesn't trip up against Millikin, finishes 9-1. Combine that with assuming DePauw beats Wabash, they finish 9-1. Now the North would have had 3 "deserving" 9-1 teams. Would 3 teams really have gone from the North when there are only 5 spots out there? Would have been very interesting to see...

I guess the heart of my rant here is that Wheaton got as much benefit from playing 7-3 Benedictine as IWU did for playing 7-3 UWW. And that was having an opponent that had 7 wins, .700 win percentage. There's an inherent flaw in SOS in this regard, IMO. A team could play a bunch of 10-0, 9-1, and 8-2 teams from cupcake conferences, and their SOS is thru the roof. Looks nice on paper, impresses the RACs, but it certainly doesn't tell the whole story.

[USee]

Thunderdog,

I agree with your underlying point but to be clear, Depauw didn't beat Wabash and Millkin's loss to NCC wasn't exactly competitive, IMO.

[emma17]

The Bleed is Back!!
Very nice to see.
I should not have said three-year record as you're right, compared to the average good team, they did great.
I should have said three-year trajectory.
2015: Lost in Semifinals. Beaten badly on both sides of ball. 253 yards of offense.
2016: Lost in Quarterfinals. 228 yards of offense.
2017: Didn't qualify for playoffs, despite a roster full of kids that were recruited to play for national championships. 

2017:
Avg. Points Scored: 23, Avg. Points Against: 14.7
2016:
Avg. Points Scored: 35, Avg. Points Against: 16
2015:
Avg. Points Scored: 38, Avg. Points Against: 14
2014:
Avg. Points Scored: 40, Avg. Points Against: 12
2013:
Avg. Points Scored: 37, Avg. Points Against: 9

Imo, UWW should have a little easier time finding willing opponents then in the past (not saying easy, but easier).

[thunderdog]

Thunderdog,

I agree with your underlying point but to be clear, Depauw didn't beat Wabash and Millkin's loss to NCC wasn't exactly competitive, IMO.

Yeah , my bad. Tried getting my thoughts out there in too little of time. I wasn't tryin to say Millikin had a competitive loss to NCC. I was saying that about IWU, that IWU's 1 loss was a competitive one to the AQ (NCC), unlike DePauw's blowout loss to the eventual AQ (Witt). And what I was trying to say about DePauw, was that before their loss to Wabash, they didn't even have 1 signature win, let alone the 2 signature wins by IWU.

[bleedpurple]

Thunderdog,

I agree with your underlying point but to be clear, Depauw didn't beat Wabash and Millkin's loss to NCC wasn't exactly competitive, IMO.

Yeah , my bad. Tried getting my thoughts out there in too little of time. I wasn't tryin to say Millikin had a competitive loss to NCC. I was saying that about IWU, that IWU's 1 loss was a competitive one to the AQ (NCC), unlike DePauw's blowout loss to the eventual AQ (Witt). And what I was trying to say about DePauw, was that before their loss to Wabash, they didn't even have 1 signature win, let alone the 2 signature wins by IWU.

Thunderdog,
i agree 1000% with your overall point. If DePauw had made the playoffs rather than IWU, that would have been a travesty.  If the committee members don't start using actual judgement in evaluating the quality of these teams (at least a little bit), they may as well use a formula and not have a committee (no I'm NOT saying that would be good...at all).

[bleedpurple]

Imo, UWW should have a little easier time finding willing opponents then in the past (not saying easy, but easier).

Hope you are right. Doubt it. You know who should be willing to play us? Every school represented on the West Region and National Committee. That's who. You don't even want to rank us? Cool.  Play us.

[bluenote]

These brackets are very primitive.

[bleedpurple]

These brackets are very primitive.

You know Bluenote, that's actually a pretty good word for it. As I think was mentioned in the podcast, it seems like they lack creativity.  Given the teams that were selected, it seems like they could have done more with the brackets. A couple of years ago they seemed super creative.

[02 Warhawk]

Where's the consideration for IWU for getting an extremely high quality non-conference win over national power UWW? I'm not seeing it...

I think the quality of that win over UWW may have diminished over the course of the season. After week one it looked like they beat one of the top 3 teams in the country. But after week 5, UWW was sitting at 1-3, unranked, and went on to not even be in the playoff discussion. That "extremely high quality non-conference win" turned into a just good win at home.

Even that one win for UWW early in the season was ugly. UWW was losing in the 4th quarter to Wash U, who went on to only win 3 games this year, before finally putting them away.

[bleedpurple]

Where's the consideration for IWU for getting an extremely high quality non-conference win over national power UWW? I'm not seeing it...

I think the quality of that win over UWW may have diminished over the course of the season. After week one it looked like they beat one of the top 3 teams in the country. But after week 5, UWW was sitting at 1-3, unranked, and went on to not even be in the playoff discussion. That "extremely high quality non-conference win" turned into a just good win at home.

Even that one win for UWW early in the season was ugly. UWW was losing in the 4th quarter to Wash U, who went on to only win 3 games this year, before finally putting them away.

That's letting the committee off the hook too easy, 02. What nearly cost IWU a well deserved playoff spot is the West Region Committee's failure to rank UW-W in the West. That was done at the end of the season, not the beginning. And you cite the Wash U win? In minutes and seconds, how much time do you think the committee discussed the Whitewater/ Wash U game? They missed badly. Doesn't affect UW-W, but it affected C-M and could have affected IWU.  UW-LaCrosse ranked 7th? Just what did they accomplish that UW-W didn't? Beating Ripon?

[02 Warhawk]

Where's the consideration for IWU for getting an extremely high quality non-conference win over national power UWW? I'm not seeing it...

I think the quality of that win over UWW may have diminished over the course of the season. After week one it looked like they beat one of the top 3 teams in the country. But after week 5, UWW was sitting at 1-3, unranked, and went on to not even be in the playoff discussion. That "extremely high quality non-conference win" turned into a just good win at home.

Even that one win for UWW early in the season was ugly. UWW was losing in the 4th quarter to Wash U, who went on to only win 3 games this year, before finally putting them away.

That's letting the committee off the hook too easy, 02. What nearly cost IWU a well deserved playoff spot is the West Region Committee's failure to rank UW-W in the West. That was done at the end of the season, not the beginning. And you cite the Wash U win? In minutes and seconds, how much time do you think the committee discussed the Whitewater/ Wash U game? They missed badly. Doesn't affect UW-W, but it affected C-M and could have affected IWU.  UW-LaCrosse ranked 7th? Just what did they accomplish that UW-W didn't? Beating Ripon?

Probably not one second.

I was just saying IWU beating UWW appeared more than what it actually was as the season progressed (especially in the first 5 weeks). After week 1 everyone thought IWU just beat a national power...but as the D3 world quickly found out (very next week actually), UWW was anything but a national power this season. I think the committee was able to ignore UWW's clout they've earned over the previous decade, and just considered UWW's body of work this season (which was disappointing for us UWW fans).

If UWW had beaten Concordia, and went on to win the WIAC, then hell yes...IWU should have gotten a huge boost in their playoff seedings.

[bleedpurple]

Where's the consideration for IWU for getting an extremely high quality non-conference win over national power UWW? I'm not seeing it...

I think the quality of that win over UWW may have diminished over the course of the season. After week one it looked like they beat one of the top 3 teams in the country. But after week 5, UWW was sitting at 1-3, unranked, and went on to not even be in the playoff discussion. That "extremely high quality non-conference win" turned into a just good win at home.

Even that one win for UWW early in the season was ugly. UWW was losing in the 4th quarter to Wash U, who went on to only win 3 games this year, before finally putting them away.

That's letting the committee off the hook too easy, 02. What nearly cost IWU a well deserved playoff spot is the West Region Committee's failure to rank UW-W in the West. That was done at the end of the season, not the beginning. And you cite the Wash U win? In minutes and seconds, how much time do you think the committee discussed the Whitewater/ Wash U game? They missed badly. Doesn't affect UW-W, but it affected C-M and could have affected IWU.  UW-LaCrosse ranked 7th? Just what did they accomplish that UW-W didn't? Beating Ripon?

Probably not one second.

I was just saying IWU beating UWW appeared more than what it actually was as the season progressed (especially in the first 5 weeks). After week 1 everyone thought IWU just beat a national power...but as the D3 world quickly found out (very next week actually), UWW was anything but a national power this season. I think the committee was able to ignore UWW's clout they've earned over the previous decade, and just considered UWW's body of work this season (which was disappointing for us UWW fans).

If UWW had beaten Concordia, and went on to win the WIAC, then hell yes...IWU should have gotten a huge boost in their playoff seedings.

And i'm not suggesting IWU should have gotten some extra "beating an all-time superpower" points. But they should have certainly been given credit for having beaten an RRO. UWW's "clout earned over the previous decade" is immaterial.  There is an oceanic (that passed spellcheck?) difference between that type of clout and simply being ranked ahead of the likes of Lake Forest (second to last RR) and UW-LaCrosse. I'm not going to rip into all the 8-2 teams out there. They had fine seasons and deserve better. But aside from UW-W fans who are disappointed in our 7-3 record, I doubt there are many people out there who can't see that UW-W should have been an RRO for C-M and IWU.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I was also surprised that UWW wasn't regionally ranked on the final rankings.  Fortunately IWU made it (probably easily) anyway.  What really could have killed IWU was that the North insisted (idiotically, IMO) on ranking DePauw above them, right up to when DePauw lost the Monon Bell game.  Had they beaten Wabash, and stayed above IWU, I'm not at all confident DePauw would have been selected, at least not earlier than fifth, in which case IWU never would have even reached the table.

[oshfb]

On the topic of scheduling D2 programs... UW Oshkosh played Minnesota Mankato in 2006 and lost 22 to 33. That team finished only 5-5. this year's team could absolutely win plenty of Division II football games. UWW lost to St Cloud St in the late 00's I believe and lost a close game. They went on to win the D3 title. In both cases the D2 team finished below .500.