FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[UWO Titan 78]

Whether UWO wins the Stagg has no bearing to me as to whether they "are there yet". They are absolutely there. They could win Saturday and perhaps end up facing the toughest D3 defense there is/ever was (I'm not saying they are or aren't, I'm simply saying there are variables) and lose; they are still there.

I was not referring as your definition of "there". As I posted, I was referring to posts that i inferred to mean that UW-0 is the equal of UW-W teams that won national championships. I think in a sense, UW-0's national perception is enhanced by UW-W's success over the years. Sort of like, "Oh, UW-0 is the new UW-W".  That is what I was addressing and no they are not.  That is giving the Titans a benefit of the doubt they have not earned. 

Before 2012, I have no idea when UW-0 even made the playoffs
2012-Semi's
2013- No Playoffs
2014- No Playoffs
2015- Quarters
2016- Lost in Stagg Bowl
2017- At least Semi's

Nice run, but it ain't exactly the same as winning National Championships in 5 of 6 years. I'm not even sure UW-0 has EVER won two WIAC Championships in a row, have they? They are good. I have respect for them. I just think that some people might perceive them to have accomplished more than they actually have. And I just can't let that happen.    

Show me the Walnut and Bronze. 

There are not a lot of Titan backers on this board. I have never said they are on par with those UWW teams. I think we need to win a title to be compared to those teams, and to the LAX teams I played in the 90s. Are we capable of winning one, and should we be considered an elite program? I think the past 6 years says that this isn't a fluke. We've won 3 WIAC titles in that span and advanced to at least the semis 3 times with a postseason record of 12-3 in that span. That is elite. Have we reached the level of the Warhawks, no? Every season and every team is different. Hopefully one of these years the Titans can take the next step. If they do, I'll be proud and ecstatic. And I won't care if they were better than any of the 6 UWW title teams.

[emma17]

Is now a good time to ask if Levell got his degree?

You are Rainman. Levell is your Wapner.

That's two thumbs up bleed.

[emma17]

Merle,
I don't play the pick-ems nor do I gamble as I feel there are just too many human (imperfection) and Mother Nature elements that impact a game.
I'll say this, I believe if UWO plays to its capabilities and doesn't beat itself, and Mt plays to its capabilities and doesn't beat itself, I'd be very surprised if this game comes down to the wire. I believe UWO is the superior team in this matchup.

[bleedpurple]

Whether UWO wins the Stagg has no bearing to me as to whether they "are there yet". They are absolutely there. They could win Saturday and perhaps end up facing the toughest D3 defense there is/ever was (I'm not saying they are or aren't, I'm simply saying there are variables) and lose; they are still there.

I was not referring as your definition of "there". As I posted, I was referring to posts that i inferred to mean that UW-0 is the equal of UW-W teams that won national championships. I think in a sense, UW-0's national perception is enhanced by UW-W's success over the years. Sort of like, "Oh, UW-0 is the new UW-W".  That is what I was addressing and no they are not.  That is giving the Titans a benefit of the doubt they have not earned. 

Before 2012, I have no idea when UW-0 even made the playoffs
2012-Semi's
2013- No Playoffs
2014- No Playoffs
2015- Quarters
2016- Lost in Stagg Bowl
2017- At least Semi's

Nice run, but it ain't exactly the same as winning National Championships in 5 of 6 years. I'm not even sure UW-0 has EVER won two WIAC Championships in a row, have they? They are good. I have respect for them. I just think that some people might perceive them to have accomplished more than they actually have. And I just can't let that happen.    

Show me the Walnut and Bronze. 

There are not a lot of Titan backers on this board. I have never said they are on par with those UWW teams. I think we need to win a title to be compared to those teams, and to the LAX teams I played in the 90s. Are we capable of winning one, and should we be considered an elite program? I think the past 6 years says that this isn't a fluke. We've won 3 WIAC titles in that span and advanced to at least the semis 3 times with a postseason record of 12-3 in that span. That is elite. Have we reached the level of the Warhawks, no? Every season and every team is different. Hopefully one of these years the Titans can take the next step. If they do, I'll be proud and ecstatic. And I won't care if they were better than any of the 6 UWW title teams.

I agree 78! And I know you haven't gone there. And I don't even think necessarily any WIAC fans are doing it. Sometimes I think nationally, people tend to create a WIAC lump and toss all of our teams into it.  In another form of this, I think I have seen posters question UW-0's speed. Maybe that comes from the stereotype as well. I doubt it comes from watching the Titans play! Yes, I think with three WIAC Championships each over the last six years and the current coaches owning 2-2 records against each other, it is reasonable to say that UW-0 and UW-W are currently on the same level. And I absolutely admire how you would respond to a championship. No comparisons are necessary. As a fan, a championship is a championship. Let others  debate all that stuff and just enjoy it if it happens!

[skunks_sidekick]

You ever watch that movie based on a Steven King novel about the Langoleers or however the spelled & pronounced it?  The characters in the movie could hear this buzzing getting closer & closer to them.

That's the sound of "The Machine" as it wings its way to Oshkosh.   

[HScoach]

Merle,
I don't play the pick-ems nor do I gamble as I feel there are just too many human (imperfection) and Mother Nature elements that impact a game.
I'll say this, I believe if UWO plays to its capabilities and doesn't beat itself, and Mt plays to its capabilities and doesn't beat itself, I'd be very surprised if this game comes down to the wire. I believe UWO is the superior team in this matchup.

That's my concern too.   While explosive thru the air, this is NOT one of the better Mount teams to play in the semi's.   I would put them on par with the '04 team with Zac Bruney at QB.   Talented and capable of winning it all, but horribly inconsistent offensively. 

[D O.C.]

That's two thumbs up bleed.

I gave him a positive too.
The answer was not forthcoming. None of you know is your correct response.

[WW]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/southwest/sports/2017/11/28/whitnall-alumnus-sam-mentkowski-finish-uwoshkoshs-best-receiver-all-time-he-finish-national-title-to/901277001/

Mentkowski remembers well when he was on the other side of the equation, a "greyshirt" who didn't participate in team activities as a freshman at Oshkosh after he graduated from Whitnall in 2012. Mentkowski knew he was undersized at that point.

"I brought it up to Brett Kasper and Dylan Hecker, two of my best friends at camp, and they were surprised — they were planning on me being on the team when they found out about (the freshman year plan)," Mentkowski said. "But they knew it would be a good idea. ... Instead of me being third string and maybe seeing 10 snaps all year, I could save my eligibility and then play four full years. Now, the greyshirt is a big thing — almost every single freshman does it."


I would love to see Oshkosh's roster academic/eligibility year breakdown of their playoff roster.....

I think some context needs to remain in this conversation for those that are newer to D-III athletics. There is nothing underhanded at all about this. Due to budgetary constraints (and until fairly recently, conference rule) the WIAC rosters are often significantly smaller than many other schools in the higher levels of D-III. Therefore, there are good athletes that won't be on the roster.  If a student-athlete is not on the roster, they are not allowed to participate in any of the functions of the football program.  They are essentially given a recommended workout program that they must implement on their own. They don't workout with the team, they don't watch practice, and they don't attend meetings.  There is nothing that binds them to the program when they are not on the roster.  Grey shirting is an informal term used to describe the above process.  A kid can say "I was grey shirted".  What it means for all practical purposes is, "I am not on the team." I'm sure in many of those cases, the coach encourages the kid to follow the workout, get bigger and faster, and you are welcome to try out again the next year.

This is largely accurate, but there is some level of implied commitment to the grayshirting student-athlete. UWO and UWW make no secrets to most recruits that they are on a five-season plan, to their credit. Others in the WIAC pitch the opposite in recruiting: "play here, graduate in four years." You can grayshirt if you want to, is the message. We're not gonna make you do it though.

Grayshirting can also be used in an injury season anywhere along the collegiate path. I know some kids who did a semester abroad and took their grayshirt season then. You get five years to play four.

[emma17]

That's two thumbs up bleed.

I gave him a positive too.
The answer was not forthcoming. None of you know is your correct response.

I consider myself a die-hard UWW fan (stop Bleed), but I have to admit, I've failed in my role of tracking the graduation status of every player that has come through UWW.
I do know this much, I saw him at a tailgate a year or two ago and he looked great. I'm happy to report to you that I found him to be a very nice guy, respectful and a pleasure to hang out with.

[Retired Old Rat]

Is now a good time to ask if Levell got his degree?

I think it is time to give it up on that one.

[D O.C.]

I remember well when guys went to school to avoid being drafted and ending up in Viet Nam.
Perhaps a few people attend college nowadays  to party and meet women with no degree goal in mind. Perhaps some hang around just to play a sport.
Perhaps I can let it go. It's just that every time I read about the American Revolution the Hessians always come up.

[WW]

26 and partly cloudy at kickoff, 18 mph wind out of NNW. That could ground the air game, but it is end-zone-to-end-zone so maybe we float a few when we're heading north to south. Snow shouldn't be a factor although there likely will be some blowing around.

Go Titans!

[jknezek]

Greyshirting is an interesting concept. It is not a concept that works for all schools however, and is one of the quirks that again creates a very interesting landscape in DIII.

For example you generally find higher numbers at Private Schools:

Washington and Lee 4 year graduation rate: 96%
Case Western: 94%
Johns Hopkins: 93.7%
W&J: 75.3%
Linfield: 65% in 4yrs, 78% in 6 years
UMU: 61.1%
St. Thomas: on time, 60.2%, in 6 years 75.8%

But that doesn't have to be the case:
Del Val: on time: 50.2%, within 6 years 57%
UMHB: on time: 28%, within 6 years 44%
Wesley: on time: 11%, within 6 years 28%


Then you have state schools, which set very different criteria. For example, they use a "reasonable graduation schedule" which is 2-3 years for a 2 year degree and 4-6 years for a 4 year degree.

Brockport: 68.9%
UWO (within 6 years) 52%
UWW (within 6 years) 57-60% depending on year

But that doesn't have to be the case with public schools:
College of NJ: 71.6% on time (2yrs for 2yr degree, 4yrs for 4yr degree), 84.5% within 6 years

Most info from Collegefactual.com

Regardless, there is no point in greyshirting at many schools. You are going to graduate before you get to that 5th year. But at public schools, it is harder to graduate in 4 years and greyshirting, especially with the roster limits in the WIAC and NJAC, becomes an intriguing option. Is it worth it? I have no idea.

[Retired Old Rat]

At public schools it can be difficult to get into all the classes you need for your major in only four years. Generally not an issue for privates.

[Retired Old Rat]

Ryan Keating, quarterback on the 2003 national champs was a six year guy.  He started out at U of M as a basketball player and redshirted.   While at SJU he had a medical redshirt.

In 2003 when the team gathered for the first time everyone introduced themselves.  After Keating introduced himself Gagliardi said "**** Keating, you've been here longer than I have."