FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

Henschler named WIAC defensive player of the week

http://wiacsports.com/sports/2018/9/5/FB_0905182842.aspx?path=football

[USee]

Kickoff rated UWSP 81.  That's with a predicted record of 1-9, 0-7. 

That 81 ranking would make the Pointers the 5th ranked team in both the NCAC and the CCIW.  Not great, not bad.  But that's the worst team in the WIAC grading out at somewhere in middle of the conferences we follow most closely.  I think UWSP's performances against JCU and Wabash don't do a thing to suggest that ranking is off.

Kickoff rankings, especially below the top 30-40 teams are more meaningless than pre-season NFL games. It's a completely subjective exercise. That aside, your "research" doesn't disprove my point. I watched all those games start to finish and in my estimation, the talent level in the WIAC isn't as high as it's been. I haven't seen every team play yet, but I have seen half of them. That's not an objective argument, that's my opinion. At the end of the season we will see where everybody ends up, I suspect there will be less parity in the WIAC than we have often seen.

[Pat Coleman]

You're just a ray of sunshine.

I think we have reason to be pretty pleased with them considering what they are: preseason rankings. Let's get Ralph Turner in here to talk about how well Kickoff rankings have performed in pick-em contests, even though all the picks are based on preseason ranking and don't take any in-season results into account.

Perfect? Of course not. Is there something better?

[wally_wabash]

Kickoff rated UWSP 81.  That's with a predicted record of 1-9, 0-7. 

That 81 ranking would make the Pointers the 5th ranked team in both the NCAC and the CCIW.  Not great, not bad.  But that's the worst team in the WIAC grading out at somewhere in middle of the conferences we follow most closely.  I think UWSP's performances against JCU and Wabash don't do a thing to suggest that ranking is off.

Kickoff rankings, especially below the top 30-40 teams are more meaningless than pre-season NFL games. It's a completely subjective exercise. That aside, your "research" doesn't disprove my point. I watched all those games start to finish and in my estimation, the talent level in the WIAC isn't as high as it's been. I haven't seen every team play yet, but I have seen half of them. That's not an objective argument, that's my opinion. At the end of the season we will see where everybody ends up, I suspect there will be less parity in the WIAC than we have often seen.

I'm not sure where the parity is here.  You have to go back to 2010 to find the last time that a Whitewater/Oshkosh/Platteville trifecta box wasn't a winning bet.  And then in those years, there's generally distance between those three and the rest in the league standings. 

[USee]

You're just a ray of sunshine.

I think we have reason to be pretty pleased with them considering what they are: preseason rankings. Let's get Ralph Turner in here to talk about how well Kickoff rankings have performed in pick-em contests, even though all the picks are based on preseason ranking and don't take any in-season results into account.

Perfect? Of course not. Is there something better?

Sorry Pat, didn't mean to be offensive and my post wasn't meant to denigrate the effort of the D3 team. I actually love the rankings and no, there is nothing better, and I study them pretty closely. I am pretty sure I may be one of only a handful of followers that has read every team capsule for the North Region teams as well as all the capsules for the teams in the other top 10 rated conferences. I enjoy reading kickoff every year and the rankings are one of the coolest things you guys do.

My point was simply the fact that those rankings are subjective, certainly with regard to Wally relying on them in one narrow instance to try to prove a point, which is also unprovable. My own research, which isn't a small sample size, tells me the WIAC isn't as good this year as last. The CCIW is 7-2 with 2 losses against WIAC teams in very close games. So has the CCIW closed the gap with the WIAC or not? I don't know as #21 IWU vs #28 UWLAX was pretty even and #90 Carthage vs #4 UWO was much closer than anyone but a couple people thought it would be. Platteville really struggled in their first game and pulled out a victory. I was really impressed with UWW and it looked like to me they have the best, most consistent talent of the contenders, despite some of the skeptics on the WIAC board.

None of that affects the fine work the D3 team has done on Kickoff, which is an invaluable resource.

[USee]

Kickoff rated UWSP 81.  That's with a predicted record of 1-9, 0-7. 

That 81 ranking would make the Pointers the 5th ranked team in both the NCAC and the CCIW.  Not great, not bad.  But that's the worst team in the WIAC grading out at somewhere in middle of the conferences we follow most closely.  I think UWSP's performances against JCU and Wabash don't do a thing to suggest that ranking is off.

Kickoff rankings, especially below the top 30-40 teams are more meaningless than pre-season NFL games. It's a completely subjective exercise. That aside, your "research" doesn't disprove my point. I watched all those games start to finish and in my estimation, the talent level in the WIAC isn't as high as it's been. I haven't seen every team play yet, but I have seen half of them. That's not an objective argument, that's my opinion. At the end of the season we will see where everybody ends up, I suspect there will be less parity in the WIAC than we have often seen.

I'm not sure where the parity is here.  You have to go back to 2010 to find the last time that a Whitewater/Oshkosh/Platteville trifecta box wasn't a winning bet.  And then in those years, there's generally distance between those three and the rest in the league standings.

Past performance is not indicative of future results.....I have heard that somewhere before. I am not betting on my opinion, just putting it out there as a data point that has struck me as different from years past.

[emma17]

Kickoff rated UWSP 81.  That's with a predicted record of 1-9, 0-7. 

That 81 ranking would make the Pointers the 5th ranked team in both the NCAC and the CCIW.  Not great, not bad.  But that's the worst team in the WIAC grading out at somewhere in middle of the conferences we follow most closely.  I think UWSP's performances against JCU and Wabash don't do a thing to suggest that ranking is off.

Kickoff rankings, especially below the top 30-40 teams are more meaningless than pre-season NFL games. It's a completely subjective exercise. That aside, your "research" doesn't disprove my point. I watched all those games start to finish and in my estimation, the talent level in the WIAC isn't as high as it's been. I haven't seen every team play yet, but I have seen half of them. That's not an objective argument, that's my opinion. At the end of the season we will see where everybody ends up, I suspect there will be less parity in the WIAC than we have often seen.

I'm not sure where the parity is here.  You have to go back to 2010 to find the last time that a Whitewater/Oshkosh/Platteville trifecta box wasn't a winning bet.  And then in those years, there's generally distance between those three and the rest in the league standings.

I'm not taking a side on your discussion, just wanted to chime in on the idea of conference parity. You list UWW, UWO and UWP as the three teams consistently competing for the conference championship-I'd add UWL for last year and this year too. Isn't the WIAC unique to have four teams legitimately competing for the conference championship? Are there other conferences that can compare to that degree of parity? I won't list all conferences but off the top of my head:
CCIW has 2-4, depending on.
OAC- 2.
MIAC- 2.

[Pat Coleman]

Sorry -- clearly I should not post late at night anymore. Getting too old for this!

[dlippiel]

dlip congrats Stout on that big time ****ing comeback win last weekend against Gustavus Adolphus. All the luck this year.

[UWO Titan 78]

Kickoff rated UWSP 81.  That's with a predicted record of 1-9, 0-7. 

That 81 ranking would make the Pointers the 5th ranked team in both the NCAC and the CCIW.  Not great, not bad.  But that's the worst team in the WIAC grading out at somewhere in middle of the conferences we follow most closely.  I think UWSP's performances against JCU and Wabash don't do a thing to suggest that ranking is off.

Kickoff rankings, especially below the top 30-40 teams are more meaningless than pre-season NFL games. It's a completely subjective exercise. That aside, your "research" doesn't disprove my point. I watched all those games start to finish and in my estimation, the talent level in the WIAC isn't as high as it's been. I haven't seen every team play yet, but I have seen half of them. That's not an objective argument, that's my opinion. At the end of the season we will see where everybody ends up, I suspect there will be less parity in the WIAC than we have often seen.

I'm not sure where the parity is here.  You have to go back to 2010 to find the last time that a Whitewater/Oshkosh/Platteville trifecta box wasn't a winning bet.  And then in those years, there's generally distance between those three and the rest in the league standings.

I'm not taking a side on your discussion, just wanted to chime in on the idea of conference parity. You list UWW, UWO and UWP as the three teams consistently competing for the conference championship-I'd add UWL for last year and this year too. Isn't the WIAC unique to have four teams legitimately competing for the conference championship? Are there other conferences that can compare to that degree of parity? I won't list all conferences but off the top of my head:
CCIW has 2-4, depending on.
OAC- 2.
MIAC- 2.

In the last 20 years, every WIAC school but Platteville can claim at least a share of the WIAC title. Whitewater and Oshkosh have dominated lately and Platteville has been on the national stage for the last several seasons. The depth of this conference is ridiculous.

[Pat Coleman]

dlip congrats Stout on that big time ****ing comeback win last weekend against Gustavus Adolphus. All the luck this year.

I really enjoyed the oral history Joe Sager put together on that win:

http://www.d3football.com/columns/features/2018/chronicling-a-comeback

[jknezek]

Kickoff rated UWSP 81.  That's with a predicted record of 1-9, 0-7. 

That 81 ranking would make the Pointers the 5th ranked team in both the NCAC and the CCIW.  Not great, not bad.  But that's the worst team in the WIAC grading out at somewhere in middle of the conferences we follow most closely.  I think UWSP's performances against JCU and Wabash don't do a thing to suggest that ranking is off.

Kickoff rankings, especially below the top 30-40 teams are more meaningless than pre-season NFL games. It's a completely subjective exercise. That aside, your "research" doesn't disprove my point. I watched all those games start to finish and in my estimation, the talent level in the WIAC isn't as high as it's been. I haven't seen every team play yet, but I have seen half of them. That's not an objective argument, that's my opinion. At the end of the season we will see where everybody ends up, I suspect there will be less parity in the WIAC than we have often seen.

I'm not sure where the parity is here.  You have to go back to 2010 to find the last time that a Whitewater/Oshkosh/Platteville trifecta box wasn't a winning bet.  And then in those years, there's generally distance between those three and the rest in the league standings.

I'm not taking a side on your discussion, just wanted to chime in on the idea of conference parity. You list UWW, UWO and UWP as the three teams consistently competing for the conference championship-I'd add UWL for last year and this year too. Isn't the WIAC unique to have four teams legitimately competing for the conference championship? Are there other conferences that can compare to that degree of parity? I won't list all conferences but off the top of my head:
CCIW has 2-4, depending on.
OAC- 2.
MIAC- 2.

Not quite competing at the same level, but the ODAC usually has 3 or 4 teams competing for the championship. The final weekend last year had a chance for 3 teams to take the AQ and a fourth to share the best record but not get the AQ because of tiebreakers.

[USee]

Since 2001 8 of the 10 CCIW teams have been to the NCAA playoffs.

[02 Warhawk]

Kickoff rated UWSP 81.  That's with a predicted record of 1-9, 0-7. 

That 81 ranking would make the Pointers the 5th ranked team in both the NCAC and the CCIW.  Not great, not bad.  But that's the worst team in the WIAC grading out at somewhere in middle of the conferences we follow most closely.  I think UWSP's performances against JCU and Wabash don't do a thing to suggest that ranking is off.

Kickoff rankings, especially below the top 30-40 teams are more meaningless than pre-season NFL games. It's a completely subjective exercise. That aside, your "research" doesn't disprove my point. I watched all those games start to finish and in my estimation, the talent level in the WIAC isn't as high as it's been. I haven't seen every team play yet, but I have seen half of them. That's not an objective argument, that's my opinion. At the end of the season we will see where everybody ends up, I suspect there will be less parity in the WIAC than we have often seen.

I'm not sure where the parity is here.  You have to go back to 2010 to find the last time that a Whitewater/Oshkosh/Platteville trifecta box wasn't a winning bet.  And then in those years, there's generally distance between those three and the rest in the league standings.

I'm not taking a side on your discussion, just wanted to chime in on the idea of conference parity. You list UWW, UWO and UWP as the three teams consistently competing for the conference championship-I'd add UWL for last year and this year too. Isn't the WIAC unique to have four teams legitimately competing for the conference championship? Are there other conferences that can compare to that degree of parity? I won't list all conferences but off the top of my head:
CCIW has 2-4, depending on.
OAC- 2.
MIAC- 2.

I guess "competing for the conference championship" is a very relative term. Does it mean they are a good team who'll finish in the top third of the conference? Or does it mean they have a realistic chance of actually getting that Pool A bid? I think UWL falls in the category of the former. To me UWL last year is like how IL-W is most years in the CCIW. Solid team in a strong conference, will finish with a good record, but not really a realistic contender for the Pool A bid.

UWL did have a great bounce-back season from 2016 (2-5 in the WIAC), to finish 5-2 in 2017 conference play. However, I never really considered them a threat to win the WIAC over a stacked UWO team or even a regressed UWW team last year. Because of the teams they needed to hurdle I never considered them a threat. To me, they have to take that next step before they are considered contenders to compete for the WIAC in my mind.

Let's see how they do this year after they lost most of their playmakers from 2017. We'll find out in a few weeks when Whitewater goes there. both teams will be coming off bye weeks, should be interesting.

[emma17]

Kickoff rated UWSP 81.  That's with a predicted record of 1-9, 0-7. 

That 81 ranking would make the Pointers the 5th ranked team in both the NCAC and the CCIW.  Not great, not bad.  But that's the worst team in the WIAC grading out at somewhere in middle of the conferences we follow most closely.  I think UWSP's performances against JCU and Wabash don't do a thing to suggest that ranking is off.

Kickoff rankings, especially below the top 30-40 teams are more meaningless than pre-season NFL games. It's a completely subjective exercise. That aside, your "research" doesn't disprove my point. I watched all those games start to finish and in my estimation, the talent level in the WIAC isn't as high as it's been. I haven't seen every team play yet, but I have seen half of them. That's not an objective argument, that's my opinion. At the end of the season we will see where everybody ends up, I suspect there will be less parity in the WIAC than we have often seen.

I'm not sure where the parity is here.  You have to go back to 2010 to find the last time that a Whitewater/Oshkosh/Platteville trifecta box wasn't a winning bet.  And then in those years, there's generally distance between those three and the rest in the league standings.

I'm not taking a side on your discussion, just wanted to chime in on the idea of conference parity. You list UWW, UWO and UWP as the three teams consistently competing for the conference championship-I'd add UWL for last year and this year too. Isn't the WIAC unique to have four teams legitimately competing for the conference championship? Are there other conferences that can compare to that degree of parity? I won't list all conferences but off the top of my head:
CCIW has 2-4, depending on.
OAC- 2.
MIAC- 2.

I guess "competing for the conference championship" is a very relative term. Does it mean they are a good team who'll finish in the top third of the conference? Or does it mean they have a realistic chance of actually getting that Pool A bid? I think UWL falls in the category of the former. To me UWL last year is like how IL-W is most years in the CCIW. Solid team in a strong conference, will finish with a good record, but not really a realistic contender for the Pool A bid.

UWL did have a great bounce-back season from 2016 (2-5 in the WIAC), to finish 5-2 in 2017 conference play. However, I never really considered them a threat to win the WIAC over a stacked UWO team or even a regressed UWW team last year. Because of the teams they needed to hurdle I never considered them a threat. To me, they have to take that next step before they are considered contenders to compete for the WIAC in my mind.

Let's see how they do this year after they lost most of their playmakers from 2017. We'll find out in a few weeks when Whitewater goes there. both teams will be coming off bye weeks, should be interesting.

I understand your reluctance w UWL, yet you have to go back to 2013 to see a UWP victory over UWW or UWO. I consider UWP as a real challenger- not to the max degree as UWO of late, but very capable of beating UWW or UWO. UWL has played UWO and UWW very tough, and beat UWP.
I agree this season is big for UWL for showing their program is back.