FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[colinsteinke]

Well, I was going to say maybe Brian Borland would want to come home for the UWW job, but he too received a salary bump. Kotelnicki got the big contract with $1m per year through 2027. Borland got bumped to $600k through 2023.

Either way, I think it might be time for an offensive minded head coach. Someone with a more modern scheme that will put some identity back into UWW.

[colinsteinke]

Merry Christmas to all my DIII friends.  I hope your weekend is filled with joy and the companionship of your loved ones.

Like Bleed I too believe the head coach and coordinators are already in the building.

This surprises me. I'm certainly willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but I think I'd be a bit disappointed if the head coach and OC were already in the building (assuming this means they are on the current football staff). I'll jump on their bandwagon, but it's hard to get excited there will be necessary changes.

For my part, I should cushion my prediction with what else I believe.  I do believe there will be a legit national search. I just think the internal candidate is a really, really "tough out".  I don't have a vote.   But I am convinced that there will be a legit process that will help determine the best hire.

Given UWW's propensity to hire alumni as coaches, I can see how this might be the case. I'm worried, though, that you mean Pesik. His offense was...pedestrian. I don't really want to see more of that.

If you think Rindahl is in line for the job given the interim tag and his history with the program, it makes sense. But I will be really disappointed if we pass on someone like Beebe or Thorne just to stay internal. And I worry that if Rindahl is the hire, we just get more of Pesik's offense. Unless Bullis severely handcuffed him with the lack of scheme, we don't need more years of bubble screens, zero pre-snap motion and mediocre line play. I would be okay if Jace got the job if he moved on from Pesik, but that seems unlikely.

I also think that programs like UWW may be able to weather the lack of hired coach during recruiting. You commit to a coach, sure, but when you commit to play at UWW, you're also committing to the tradition and history of the program; they don't walk you by those six walnut and bronze statues just to make you feel good. The recruits are sold on what they're playing for, not just who. Easier to commit to a program with that kind of history without a coach than one than if you're trying to decide on a program without any real pedigree and you're committing to what the coach is selling you about the future.

[emma17]

Merry Christmas to all my DIII friends.  I hope your weekend is filled with joy and the companionship of your loved ones.

Like Bleed I too believe the head coach and coordinators are already in the building.

This surprises me. I'm certainly willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but I think I'd be a bit disappointed if the head coach and OC were already in the building (assuming this means they are on the current football staff). I'll jump on their bandwagon, but it's hard to get excited there will be necessary changes.

For my part, I should cushion my prediction with what else I believe.  I do believe there will be a legit national search. I just think the internal candidate is a really, really "tough out".  I don't have a vote.   But I am convinced that there will be a legit process that will help determine the best hire.

Given UWW's propensity to hire alumni as coaches, I can see how this might be the case. I'm worried, though, that you mean Pesik. His offense was...pedestrian. I don't really want to see more of that.

If you think Rindahl is in line for the job given the interim tag and his history with the program, it makes sense. But I will be really disappointed if we pass on someone like Beebe or Thorne just to stay internal. And I worry that if Rindahl is the hire, we just get more of Pesik's offense. Unless Bullis severely handcuffed him with the lack of scheme, we don't need more years of bubble screens, zero pre-snap motion and mediocre line play. I would be okay if Jace got the job if he moved on from Pesik, but that seems unlikely.

I also think that programs like UWW may be able to weather the lack of hired coach during recruiting. You commit to a coach, sure, but when you commit to play at UWW, you're also committing to the tradition and history of the program; they don't walk you by those six walnut and bronze statues just to make you feel good. The recruits are sold on what they're playing for, not just who. Easier to commit to a program with that kind of history without a coach than one than if you're trying to decide on a program without any real pedigree and you're committing to what the coach is selling you about the future.

colinsteinke- Man, I see things the same way. 
-If Bleed and BW are correct, the logical coaching changes would be: Rindahl to HC, Cortez to DC and Pesik remains as OC. Rindahl and Cortez are both good coaches and awesome former defensive players. The problem since LL left, however, has been the offense. Was it direction from Bullis? I tend to doubt it based on his interviews. He made it crystal clear in interviews the entire offense was under the control of the OC. That leaves the question, why have three consecutive OC's failed to institute a UWW offense that looked and acted like those of the championship years? If all had complete autonomy, then it speaks volumes of the hirings of Bullis and the style of the three OC's. I certainly would be disappointed with more of the same from Pesik.

-As for the tour through Walnut and Bronze row, that's another confusing UWW football thing. UWW seems to go out of its way to stress the great goal/achievement of conference championships, but downplays or rejects mention of the goal of national championships. Are the recruits being brought to Walnut row? If so, why?   

[colinsteinke]

Merry Christmas to all my DIII friends.  I hope your weekend is filled with joy and the companionship of your loved ones.

Like Bleed I too believe the head coach and coordinators are already in the building.

This surprises me. I'm certainly willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but I think I'd be a bit disappointed if the head coach and OC were already in the building (assuming this means they are on the current football staff). I'll jump on their bandwagon, but it's hard to get excited there will be necessary changes.

For my part, I should cushion my prediction with what else I believe.  I do believe there will be a legit national search. I just think the internal candidate is a really, really "tough out".  I don't have a vote.   But I am convinced that there will be a legit process that will help determine the best hire.

Given UWW's propensity to hire alumni as coaches, I can see how this might be the case. I'm worried, though, that you mean Pesik. His offense was...pedestrian. I don't really want to see more of that.

If you think Rindahl is in line for the job given the interim tag and his history with the program, it makes sense. But I will be really disappointed if we pass on someone like Beebe or Thorne just to stay internal. And I worry that if Rindahl is the hire, we just get more of Pesik's offense. Unless Bullis severely handcuffed him with the lack of scheme, we don't need more years of bubble screens, zero pre-snap motion and mediocre line play. I would be okay if Jace got the job if he moved on from Pesik, but that seems unlikely.

I also think that programs like UWW may be able to weather the lack of hired coach during recruiting. You commit to a coach, sure, but when you commit to play at UWW, you're also committing to the tradition and history of the program; they don't walk you by those six walnut and bronze statues just to make you feel good. The recruits are sold on what they're playing for, not just who. Easier to commit to a program with that kind of history without a coach than one than if you're trying to decide on a program without any real pedigree and you're committing to what the coach is selling you about the future.

colinsteinke- Man, I see things the same way. 
-If Bleed and BW are correct, the logical coaching changes would be: Rindahl to HC, Cortez to DC and Pesik remains as OC. Rindahl and Cortez are both good coaches and awesome former defensive players. The problem since LL left, however, has been the offense. Was it direction from Bullis? I tend to doubt it based on his interviews. He made it crystal clear in interviews the entire offense was under the control of the OC. That leaves the question, why have three consecutive OC's failed to institute a UWW offense that looked and acted like those of the championship years? If all had complete autonomy, then it speaks volumes of the hirings of Bullis and the style of the three OC's. I certainly would be disappointed with more of the same from Pesik.

-As for the tour through Walnut and Bronze row, that's another confusing UWW football thing. UWW seems to go out of its way to stress the great goal/achievement of conference championships, but downplays or rejects mention of the goal of national championships. Are the recruits being brought to Walnut row? If so, why?

Good question. Bullis did seem to make a big deal of conference championships. I always thought Lance said that was the first goal. But never the end goal.

It does seem an odd thing. To have six national titles, but still be so overtly focused on winning the conference you seem to win year in and year out with random exceptions.

To be fair, I wasn't huge on the Bullis hire to begin with, so maybe this is just my bias showing.

[badgerwarhawk]

Merry Christmas to all my DIII friends.  I hope your weekend is filled with joy and the companionship of your loved ones.

Like Bleed I too believe the head coach and coordinators are already in the building.

This surprises me. I'm certainly willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but I think I'd be a bit disappointed if the head coach and OC were already in the building (assuming this means they are on the current football staff). I'll jump on their bandwagon, but it's hard to get excited there will be necessary changes.

For my part, I should cushion my prediction with what else I believe.  I do believe there will be a legit national search. I just think the internal candidate is a really, really "tough out".  I don't have a vote.   But I am convinced that there will be a legit process that will help determine the best hire.

Given UWW's propensity to hire alumni as coaches, I can see how this might be the case. I'm worried, though, that you mean Pesik. His offense was...pedestrian. I don't really want to see more of that.

If you think Rindahl is in line for the job given the interim tag and his history with the program, it makes sense. But I will be really disappointed if we pass on someone like Beebe or Thorne just to stay internal. And I worry that if Rindahl is the hire, we just get more of Pesik's offense. Unless Bullis severely handcuffed him with the lack of scheme, we don't need more years of bubble screens, zero pre-snap motion and mediocre line play. I would be okay if Jace got the job if he moved on from Pesik, but that seems unlikely.

I also think that programs like UWW may be able to weather the lack of hired coach during recruiting. You commit to a coach, sure, but when you commit to play at UWW, you're also committing to the tradition and history of the program; they don't walk you by those six walnut and bronze statues just to make you feel good. The recruits are sold on what they're playing for, not just who. Easier to commit to a program with that kind of history without a coach than one than if you're trying to decide on a program without any real pedigree and you're committing to what the coach is selling you about the future.

colinsteinke- Man, I see things the same way. 
-If Bleed and BW are correct, the logical coaching changes would be: Rindahl to HC, Cortez to DC and Pesik remains as OC. Rindahl and Cortez are both good coaches and awesome former defensive players. The problem since LL left, however, has been the offense. Was it direction from Bullis? I tend to doubt it based on his interviews. He made it crystal clear in interviews the entire offense was under the control of the OC. That leaves the question, why have three consecutive OC's failed to institute a UWW offense that looked and acted like those of the championship years? If all had complete autonomy, then it speaks volumes of the hirings of Bullis and the style of the three OC's. I certainly would be disappointed with more of the same from Pesik.

-As for the tour through Walnut and Bronze row, that's another confusing UWW football thing. UWW seems to go out of its way to stress the great goal/achievement of conference championships, but downplays or rejects mention of the goal of national championships. Are the recruits being brought to Walnut row? If so, why?

Good question. Bullis did seem to make a big deal of conference championships. I always thought Lance said that was the first goal. But never the end goal.

It does seem an odd thing. To have six national titles, but still be so overtly focused on winning the conference you seem to win year in and year out with random exceptions.

To be fair, I wasn't huge on the Bullis hire to begin with, so maybe this is just my bias showing.

Bullis's emphasis on winning the conference championship first wasn't any different than Liepold's emphasis on winning the conference championship first.  That was the #1 priority of both coaches.  Bullis's philosophy  of "first things first" is identical to Liepold's.  I really don't know where you guys are coming up with that.  Having had numerous conversations with both on the subject I sure couldn't tell you the difference. 

No offense intended but suggesting Bullis "downplays or rejects mention of the goal of national championships" is absurd. 

[emma17]

Merry Christmas to all my DIII friends.  I hope your weekend is filled with joy and the companionship of your loved ones.

Like Bleed I too believe the head coach and coordinators are already in the building.

This surprises me. I'm certainly willing to give the benefit of the doubt, but I think I'd be a bit disappointed if the head coach and OC were already in the building (assuming this means they are on the current football staff). I'll jump on their bandwagon, but it's hard to get excited there will be necessary changes.

For my part, I should cushion my prediction with what else I believe.  I do believe there will be a legit national search. I just think the internal candidate is a really, really "tough out".  I don't have a vote.   But I am convinced that there will be a legit process that will help determine the best hire.

Given UWW's propensity to hire alumni as coaches, I can see how this might be the case. I'm worried, though, that you mean Pesik. His offense was...pedestrian. I don't really want to see more of that.

If you think Rindahl is in line for the job given the interim tag and his history with the program, it makes sense. But I will be really disappointed if we pass on someone like Beebe or Thorne just to stay internal. And I worry that if Rindahl is the hire, we just get more of Pesik's offense. Unless Bullis severely handcuffed him with the lack of scheme, we don't need more years of bubble screens, zero pre-snap motion and mediocre line play. I would be okay if Jace got the job if he moved on from Pesik, but that seems unlikely.

I also think that programs like UWW may be able to weather the lack of hired coach during recruiting. You commit to a coach, sure, but when you commit to play at UWW, you're also committing to the tradition and history of the program; they don't walk you by those six walnut and bronze statues just to make you feel good. The recruits are sold on what they're playing for, not just who. Easier to commit to a program with that kind of history without a coach than one than if you're trying to decide on a program without any real pedigree and you're committing to what the coach is selling you about the future.

colinsteinke- Man, I see things the same way. 
-If Bleed and BW are correct, the logical coaching changes would be: Rindahl to HC, Cortez to DC and Pesik remains as OC. Rindahl and Cortez are both good coaches and awesome former defensive players. The problem since LL left, however, has been the offense. Was it direction from Bullis? I tend to doubt it based on his interviews. He made it crystal clear in interviews the entire offense was under the control of the OC. That leaves the question, why have three consecutive OC's failed to institute a UWW offense that looked and acted like those of the championship years? If all had complete autonomy, then it speaks volumes of the hirings of Bullis and the style of the three OC's. I certainly would be disappointed with more of the same from Pesik.

-As for the tour through Walnut and Bronze row, that's another confusing UWW football thing. UWW seems to go out of its way to stress the great goal/achievement of conference championships, but downplays or rejects mention of the goal of national championships. Are the recruits being brought to Walnut row? If so, why?

Good question. Bullis did seem to make a big deal of conference championships. I always thought Lance said that was the first goal. But never the end goal.

It does seem an odd thing. To have six national titles, but still be so overtly focused on winning the conference you seem to win year in and year out with random exceptions.

To be fair, I wasn't huge on the Bullis hire to begin with, so maybe this is just my bias showing.

Bullis's emphasis on winning the conference championship first wasn't any different than Liepold's emphasis on winning the conference championship first.  That was the #1 priority of both coaches.  Bullis's philosophy  of "first things first" is identical to Liepold's.  I really don't know where you guys are coming up with that.  Having had numerous conversations with both on the subject I sure couldn't tell you the difference. 

No offense intended but suggesting Bullis "downplays or rejects mention of the goal of national championships" is absurd.

BW, I don't disagree that LL spoke of conference championships the same was as Bullis. Obviously, we don't know what was discussed internally with the LL staff and how it impacted their recruiting and scheme. I'll say again, it's one thing to recruit players and scheme to win the WIAC, it's another thing to recruit and scheme to win the national championship. LL won six.

As for your last statement, I have two responses:
1. No offense taken.
2. Prove it. Show me where he measured or spoke of program success against winning the national championship.

[colinsteinke]

There had to be a difference in philosophy or scheme somewhere. Or maybe Bullis wasn't built to be a head coach of a premiere program (as much as he is a leader and shaper of young men) there were years where UWW had the talent to win the whole thing and coaching/preparation held them back. I've followed the program very closely for a couple of decades now and don't recall much talk from Bullis about the national title being the goal. 

Leipold spoke openly about national championships being the goal, even on his way out. "I will be finishing this season and will be there as we prepare to take on an excellent Wartburg team this Saturday," Leipold said. "My focus remains with this program and our student-athletes, and on our goal of winning a national championship." https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2014-12-01/wisconsin-whitewaters-lance-leipold-accepts-head-coach-position

I can't find any examples of Bullis saying that the national championship was the goal. Not even when they were playing for it. In 2015 when they had to travel to Mount Union for the semifinals, he just said that "...sounds like a lot of fun." Who knows what he said internally, but externally, his quotes sometimes made it sound like he was just looking to have fun. In 2019 when they were actually in the national championship game, I see no quotes about how the title was the end goal.

Yes, I know, Bullis is not Leipold. I get it. Leipold probably coached his way to a few of those national titles when UMU was favored. But that's the difference. Bullis couldn't get out of his own way with his coordinator hires and team preparation. Leipold made his own way.

Maybe folks close to Bullis think differently, but the persona and air about program goals and what the end game was certainly looks different for those of us paying attention on the outside. And not just because we haven't won the title in almost a decade.

[Pat Coleman]

Mount Union speaks the same way about its goal of winning the OAC championship.

[colinsteinke]

Mount Union speaks the same way about its goal of winning the OAC championship.

I wasn't trying to say that conference championship shouldn't be a goal. But with Bullis it sounded like the only goal he'd talk about. I'm sure Mount Union, after they win the OAC, start talking about their next goal. It felt like winning the WIAC was enough for Bullis.

At least in his rhetoric he shared with outlets that would write about it or record him.

[bleedpurple]

Mount Union speaks the same way about its goal of winning the OAC championship.

I wasn't trying to say that conference championship shouldn't be a goal. But with Bullis it sounded like the only goal he'd talk about. I'm sure Mount Union, after they win the OAC, start talking about their next goal. It felt like winning the WIAC was enough for Bullis.

At least in his rhetoric he shared with outlets that would write about it or record him.

I understand you are speaking from your perception based on public statements. Obviously, you are paying attention and have given it some critical thought, which is awesome. I think you and Emma both are understandably focused on the Head Coach's role as the face of the program and the expectations that are set outside the locker room.

My perspective is different, but I see where you guys are coming from. I am with BW in that I don't see a noticeable difference between Lance's approach and Kevin's approach. You cited an article during a very unusual time period (The period of time Lance had committed to Buffalo but was still coaching during the playoffs).  At that particular time, with Lance's days numbered, Lance was emphasizing that he was "all in" and not distracted as he finished his time at UW-W. The National Championship reference was the strongest statement he could make at that time. The guys on the team needed to know he was all in. And of course he was. I would be surprised if you could find many other public references from Lance as to the National Championship being a goal. I admit I may be wrong. But I'd be surprised.

Inside the program, with the players, I can say with 100% certainty that winning the National Championship was the ultimate goal (and stated as such) every single season of Coach Bullis's tenure.

Neither Lance or Kevin approved of talking about that goal after it was stated. I think two factors went into that.  The philosophy of the program has always been to get 1% better every day. In other words, on a random Tuesday in September, random talk about winning the Natty is just idle chatter. You can't win a National Championship on a Tuesday in September. But you can definitely get 1% better. So put your full focus on that.

Secondly, winning the WIAC is a worthy goal as well. And it is also the first step towards the National Championship. The WIAC is the strongest conference in the country. These teams are really good. We need a one week at a time focus on our next opponent EVERY week to win the WIAC. And the best way to accomplish the goal you guys want IS to win the WIAC. They are not conflicting goals.

Even at UW-W when Lance was rolling, Natty talk during the season was just idle chatter and it was frowned upon. Too much work was yet to be done.

IMO, it's a mistake to think Coach Bullis didn't set the National Championship as a goal because he didn't talk about it publicly. You may disagree with that philosophy, but it was his philosophy. But to say any team of his didn't set it as a goal at the beginning of the season is just factually inaccurate. 

[emma17]

I admit it's a bit conflicting for me to hold Bullis to a standard different from LL in terms of openly setting the goal of winning the national championship. As Pat stated, Mt Union makes it clear as day from day one the national championship IS their goal- and not just getting there. I've always respected that approach because let's face it, Mt tells the world what their season should be judged against- it takes some real brass balls (lots of Glengary Glen Ross lines come to mind with this subject).

Bleed, you mention UWW doesn't speak of a national championship day to day because of the focus on 1% better every day. Well, that would apply to a WIAC championship too. So why keep declaring only the WIAC goal, especially since a WIAC team hasn't won the national championship since 2014? The WIAC is the best conference top to bottom certainly, but it sure isn't producing the D3 championship.

Some day it would be great to talk w LL and Bullis and ask why not.

[02 Warhawk]

Mount Union speaks the same way about its goal of winning the OAC championship.

Setting the bar low there.

[emma17]

Mount Union speaks the same way about its goal of winning the OAC championship.

Setting the bar low there.

I'm not sure how to take Pat's comment as I assumed he was saying Mt sets the national championship as the team goal. I assumed that because we've heard many Mt players speak to that. I'm quite sure D3 had a pre-Stagg interview w a Mt player, perhaps the QB- and he flat out said the season goal is to win the national championship.

[fredfalcon]

Ben Beise, UWRF tight end, class of 2022, drafted 13th round, 35th pick of supplemental draft, Seattle Sea Dragons, XFL. He WILL  surprise people!

[badgerwarhawk]

Good luck to him.