FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[BoBo]

WW has a pro day?  Doesn't that seem a bit arrogant?  I can't imagine much coming out of it.

Not overly. You'd be surprised how many schools do, Duff.

Okay, I guess I stand corrected, then.  We must just not have the quality of players in the MIAC or OAC that the rest of the country does.

I still think it's arrogant (no flip-flopping there, BoBo).

A couple things of note:

I'm not sure lumping the MIAC and OAC together on this issue is being fair to the OAC.  I believe they would feel slighted with that comment. As a matter of fact, I believe that's kirasdad hot on your tail now!!   I believe what you are trying to do is say SJU and MUC must not have have the quality of players to warrant a Pro Day, yes???  Just say that then. 
Second of all, being that we are both linguists, it must be semantics -  you call it being arrogant, I call it flip-flopping (you write one thing here then go back to the MIAC & say something different).
Just to clear the record and show some fairness on the issue, let's go out and find some of the other programs that Pat Coleman say conduct Pro Days at their institutions.  You can verbally attack them, too, from the comfort of your own computer, about how arrogant they are to sponsor a Pro Day on their campus. Then, everyone on the WIAC board will understand that the obvious ill feelings you and many of your cronies harbor for the WIAC in general and UWW, specifically, are not as deep-rooted as they seem.  In fact, it might prove you hate everyone equally. 
Thirdly, the fact that a school conducts a Pro Day, only proves one point.  That is, that there is at least 1 professional scout willing to attend.  It says nothing if you or I or anybody who is not in the business of evaluating talent for the NFL, Arena Football, etc, thinks there is not enough talent to warrant a look. The fact that SJU or MUC doesn't conduct one says nothing about their talent - they choose not to do it, period.  Look, it's the same thing if the School of Education or School of Business, etc, etc, etc. hold job fairs for students in those disciplines looking for jobs at graduation or internships, etc.  When I was at UWL, they used to (maybe still do) hold a job fair for students looking to work over the summer in camps and employers came from all over America.  Employers attend because they feel it's worth their time and money attend.  It's an efficient way of conducting a job search for entry level positions. That would be the equivalent of what is going on during these Pro Days.  If a school didn't sponsor an event like this, it's not because employers think there are not enough teachers or business minds available at a school to make it worth spending their resources.  The school decides not to do it, period.

[bulk19]

I'm not suggesting the NFL is giving the WIAC a token look or returning a favor by appearing at  these scouting days; they do have a definte interest in this conference,  seeings a number of players have made it to the NFL from this conference. The scouts wouldn't waste their time coming if there wasn't talent here, and at the other D3 schools they visit...

Keep in mind that five pro teams have had training camps in Wisconsin on college practice fields - Packers, Bears, Chiefs, Saints and Jaguars. So, they've gotten a look at the facilities of these schools, and probably have an idea of the collegiate talent that uses those fields.

[janesvilleflash]

It's really simple. Several scouts have been to WW and looked at 3 or 4 players. If they didn't want another workout for those players, they wouldn't come. If they weren't coming, WW would sure as hell not have a "pro day".

How could that not end this not to cool conversation?

[DuffMan]

Maybe I'm bitter, maybe I'm a prick, maybe I'm a hater.  I'm sure there are plenty of folks that would agree.

Believe it or not, my point was not to rip on UWW for having a pro day (although I don't mind ripping on UWW ).  I was more surprised that a DIII school would host such a thing.  I've never heard of it on this level before (yes, there have been pro prospects from the MIAC).  I didn't think it would be worth the resources for the hosting school nor the scouts.

Sure, schools host job fairs, but I think, in the spirit of DIII, kids are there to earn a degree for a long-term career, not as a stepping stone to a professional athletics career.

DuffMan out.

[BoBo]

Maybe I'm bitter, maybe I'm a prick, maybe I'm a hater.  I'm sure there are plenty of folks that would agree.

Believe it or not, my point was not to rip on UWW for having a pro day (although I don't mind ripping on UWW ).  I was more surprised that a DIII school would host such a thing.  I've never heard of it on this level before (yes, there have been pro prospects from the MIAC).  I didn't think it would be worth the resources for the hosting school nor the scouts.

Sure, schools host job fairs, but I think, in the spirit of DIII, kids are there to earn a degree for a long-term career, not as a stepping stone to a professional athletics career.

DuffMan out

So, if we take this one step further, Duffman will be sponsoring a petition drive banning the use of the term Student/Athlete (or any variation of the word) for all DIII kids because in the spirit of DIII, these kids are at school to earn a degree and have a long term career as a CPA or whatever (I thought most were there to party - they were in my time).  Maybe the coaches, administrators and media-types can call these kids Students Participating in Extracurricular Activities. Furthermore, why don't we just have the NCAA institute a policy that simply bans all DIII students from ever potentially making a living as a professional athlete.  That way, we can guarantee this issue will never rear it's ugly head again!!

[OzJohnnie]

So, if we take this one step further...

Why stop at one step?  I suggest you keep on running until you smack your head into a brick wall.  You're so busy arguing about claims Duff never made that I would be surprised if you can find your way unassisted into the bathroom in the morning.

Did Duff say UWW had to talent?  No
Did Duff say UWW had no scouts asking around?  No
Did Duff say a 'Pro-day' meant no one could every play DIII football again?  No
Did Duff say no scouts would attend?  No

So what did he say?

He said it seemed like a waste of resources when other options should be available.
He said it seemed 'arrogant' to spend resources on a pro-day.
He said schools with longer traditions of excellence (than two years?) get by without pro-days.

Let's look at what you said:

[ Duff must want to get rid of the Athlete in Student/Athlete, because he believes] these kids are at school to earn a degree and have a long term career as a CPA or whatever (I thought most were there to party - they were in my time).

Seems you think the Student should be taken out of Student/Athlete.  And in following your rant, I can honestly believe you did your best to do just that during your stay in DIII.

And the UWW posters are angered with Duff for using the term 'arrogant'.   Seems to me they should rightly have a beef with you.

Oh, and one last thing:

You can verbally attack them, too, from the comfort of your own computer...

What are you?  Electron Man?  Spontaneously generating posts at d3sports.com without the assistance of a computer?

  (smiley means I'm not a jerk...)

[BoBo]

Thank you for your comic genius, Oz.  That was highly entertaining, except the part about finding my way to the bathroom in the morning - that's a low blow.

However,
1. Other options are not available.
2. The taxpayers of the State of Wisconsin are the only ones who should judge if it's a waste of resources (not every Tom, Dick, and SJU lover).
3.  As was stated earlier, by bulk19 (my apologies for dragging you into this), the conference with no winning tradition (WIAC) has a history of guys recently playing in the NFL, whereas the schools with all the winning traditions. as you and Duff so elequently put it...don't.  I would guess the closest any of "your" guys have come to the NFL has been a phonics class. 

I realize the truth hurts your pride, but it needs to be said. 

Lastly, I've never responded to the name electron man, but since superman is taken, I'll consider it. 

[footballfan413]

Haven't had much time to look at the board the last few days, (there actually is life after football season,) and when I do, I find this rather heated discussion.  Well, beats the 48 hours with no posting that Finsleft pointed out the other day!   Don't want to drag out anything that maybe cooling down but one observation. I believe that "recruiting ," in the NFL is not really any different than recruiting in college.  Coaches don't really care which player has recieved post season honors, played on winning teams or won HS championships.  They want to know how much he weighs, how tall he is, what is his 40 time, verticle leap, bench press, etc............  Their talent is reduced to numbers on a page and whether they fit the "mold."  The difference between the D-1 and the D-3 usually comes down to just that.  Varying degrees of size and speed.  But, even at D-3, there are those players who do have the stats on paper to warrant a look  by NFL scouts.  Maybe this is the one thing that is paying off for our WIAC, "hogs," as some of the MIAC posters have so lovingly called our boys over the last few years.    Especially the size.  Success in the post season only helps to shine a spotlight on certain programs.  Anyway, just speculation in regards to what brings scouts to certain programs.    Keep in mind, also, that there is only one D-1 program in the entire state of Wisconsin and no D-2 unlike Minnesota or Ohio.  So one might assume that the talent pool is less diluted and there is a chance of finding a, "diamond in the rough," at one of the top programs like UWW after their recent success or UWL because of their continued presence at the top of the WIAC.  Anyway, the one post, IMHO, on this discussion that bears repeating is this one:

It's really simple. Several scouts have been to WW and looked at 3 or 4 players. If they didn't want another workout for those players, they wouldn't come. If they weren't coming, WW would sure as hell not have a "pro day".

How could that not end this not to cool conversation?

Anyway, in conclusion, I would like to spark a new controversy here on the WIAC board!!  Happy Super Bowl everyone!!  Marks the end of another season of football.  
      GO BEARS!!  GO BEARS!! GO BEARS!! 

[janesvilleflash]

Bear down Chicago Bears

[kubiack78]

Does that make me an arrogant prick?

[footballfan413]

Does that make me an arrogant prick?

Nope, just a Packers Fan!  (Much worse!)  Just Kidding, my friend!  How is the weather there?  Colder than shi** here in the frigid midwest! 

[kubiack78]

Does that make me an arrogant prick?

Nope, just a Packers Fan!  (Much worse!)  Just Kidding, my friend!  How is the weather there?  Colder than shi** here in the frigid midwest! 

It's cold here but not that cold,  just raining a lot lately.

[CaptainKurt]

What resources does hosting a pro-day actually require?  I don't really see what it takes other than to reserve the Kachel Fieldhouse on UWW's campus for a few hours while some student-ATHLETES try their best in chasing down their dream in front of NFL scouts.  Is there something else that is extremely expensive that a pro-day requires that I am missing?  

And is it just me, or does it seem that a certain group of posters on these boards choose to create alliances with each other based on who they are rather than on what they are actually saying?  To me, this seems to be the case, and is very cowardly in its own internet-way.  Even something like Post Patterns has come to be dominated by the politics that be, which is pretty lame IMO.

Word to your mothers everyone.  Enjoy the Super Bowl.   The Packers will see you all at this time next year!!!!

[stoutguy]

Yes, we all know that the bears still suck, but I would like to add one more thing to the tryout debate.  My son was a teammate and roommate of North Dakota's Jim Kleinsasser.  You will never find a nicer, downhome, farm family roots, better teammate and friend than "Sauce".  However, while at ND, I could never understand what all the fuss was about his being a pro prospect.  He was large, fast, and strong.  End of story.  He never did catch the ball very well (You Viking fans have found that out).  But this d2 kid got his chance.  No stone gets left unturned when it comes to finding prospects.  I was amazed when Jim signed a big contract and then stunned when he was tabbed as the Vikings franchise player a few years later.  He never dominated his team or the North Central Conference like Stout players like North Central Conference transfer Jeff Huzz(forgot how to spell his name) or MHS product Jamie Speilman.  Some kids get their chance and others don't.  The line is fine between those who make it and those who don't.  

[skunks_sidekick]

As Kirasdad as already made mention, Mount does not have a pro-day, or have they ever.  I guess there is just that many more talented, pro-possible players at WW than Mount.   

Although.....the names Kern, Adamson, and Pugh might dispute that claim.  All of them went to Kent State, Akron, or some bigger school in Ohio to show their skills. 

My main question is......who are the 3 or 4 kids from WW?  The tight end due to his size/speed?  Stanley?  MAYBE at best....but I don't see it.