FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[bulk19]

Interesting story about McMurry on the front page, about how the battles to keep the "Indians" nickname...

Reminds me of the weenies in La Crosse, who buckled under political correctness to change UWL's nickname from Indians to Eagles... They even had to rename the band - the Marching Chiefs - to "Screaming Eagles." Kudos to the alumni band members, however, who still, perhaps defiantly, refer to themselves as Marching Chiefs, although they are introduced at the Octoberfest parade as the "UWL alumni band."

Never in my mind when I was growing up there did I think Indians or Marching Chiefs was meant in a derogatory manner. Perhaps I was too young to understand the negative connotations placed on that name; but I thought that teams that named themselves after chiefs, warriors and Indians did so because they were strong, brave, loyal and whatever other characteristics and qualities that you wanted associated with your team...

I always thought Indians was in honor of the people who were first in that coulee region along the Mississippi... It's funny, because the city was named La Crosse because the person who named it did so because the Native Americans who were there were playing the game of la crosse...

Maybe they need to take down the "offensive" Indian statue of them playing la crosse on the north side of town???...

OK, enough ranting here on my part... T-minus 48 hours or so until we kick off another WIAC weekend...

[retagent]

bulk - You said a mouthful and said it well. +k to you.

[badgerwarhawk]

My high school, Tomah, renamed the athletic teams from the Indians to the Timber Wolves just this past summer.  Tomah actually had the blessing of the local Native American population but that wasn't enough for the administrators.  I wore the Indian moniker with great pride but I'm kind of corny like that.

Interestingly enough one school in the conference, LaCrosse Central, for many years refused to display Tomah's banner in the school's gymnasium along with the other conference members because of the name. 

I'm looking forward to a Timber Wolf summer. previously referred to as indian summer.

[Sakman 1111]

Bulk, I agree with your rant 100%......I am half Greek/half Italian and think it's great that Michigan State is the Spartans and USC is the Trojans....how simply naming a football team be offensive.....

[bulk19]

badgerwarhawk -

I wasn't aware that Central didn't hang the Tomah banner in its gym. I wasn't in there that much, and when I was, it was nearly, oh, 25+ years ago, so maybe things changed over that time. - I was a Blugold in high school, and carried that moniker into college with me, too. Ha.  *

But, refresh my memory, weren't the Central Red Raiders an Indian logo, too, until they changed it? If so, it's ironic that they didn't display the Tomah logo, unless that happened after Central changed its logo...

* favorite collegiate basketball team, other than my beloved Blugolds? The 1977 NCAA D1 National Championship Marquette WARRIORS!!! - and although this is a football site, that comment is probably going to stir up more trouble on here with the Badger fans than my UWL Indians rant. Ha. But I like Bucky, too.

[stoutguy]

I was the guy who had "Indians" painted on our gym floor back in my coaching days and my son went from being a "Menomonie Indian" to a North Dakota "Fighting Sioux."  I could not agree more with the "Old Timers" who have a problem with the political correctness of calling the logos offensive.  I just don't get it and never will.  I got so tired of hearing about it here in Menomonie and in North Dakota that I am a bit timid about even weighing in on the discussion. 

[footballfan413]

I agree with you all.  I don't believe that any American Indian mascot or logo was every intended to be anything but a tribute to their culture.  The University of Illinois finally retired what I consider one of the most majestic and honorably portrayed mascots in NCAA history, Chief Illiniwek, after years of pressure.  However, I have decided that, ultimately, it is not my call.  It is the call of the American Indian culture and if it is interpreted to be offensive by any American Indians than the changes need to be made.  Just my 2 cents. 

[KitchenSink]

I don't agree with "interpreted to be offensive by any American Indians than the changes need to be made."  So 99.99% are OK but if 1 whiner says something we have to change?

That's ridiculous.

I'm sure some PETA nut could be found to say we should stop naming teams after animals, too.

[badgerwarhawk]

badgerwarhawk -

I wasn't aware that Central didn't hang the Tomah banner in its gym.

But, refresh my memory, weren't the Central Red Raiders an Indian logo, too, until they changed it? If so, it's ironic that they didn't display the Tomah logo, unless that happened after Central changed its logo...

Tomah wasn't in the Mississippi Valley Conference with LaCrosse Central 25 years ago.  We were in the South Central Conference. 
And, yes, the Central Red Raiders were an indian on horseback but they switched to a goofy looking knight on horseback when they became politically correct though I'm not quite sure if that was before or after the MVC was formed.  I think they switched beforehand but I'm not certain. 

What always has annoyed me is that we were Indians with the tribe's blessing, our logo was always a very dignified indian chief if full headdress, the thought that it was offensive never crossed anyone's mind until people (WIAA) from outside the community started putting pressure on us to change.   We held out for a long time until the current administration decided it had to be changed. 

But I don't care what we're called. Once you're a Tomah Indian you are always a Tomah Indian.

[bulk19]

I guess we can just go playground, no names, and let one team be shirts, and one team skins...

Might not work for the women, though...  

[retagent]

It's good to see that so many of you are from around my old stomping grounds of Winona, MN. High School wouldn't have been the same without trips to "Your Uncle's Place" in beautiful La Crosse, WI.

I think people who are offended by someone who has no intention of offending are quite offensive.

[BoBo]

How 'bout this - I'm 1/2 Irish [for real]; I want to whine [not really ] about the use of the Fighting Irish nickname and a leprechaun as a mascot at Notre Dame.  I believe it's unsulting to my Irish heritage, in general and specifically, to little people.

IMO, unless the people at TCU are abusing Horned Frogs or the people at Cal-Irvine are mistreating Anteaters or at Cal-Santa Cruz, they begin to exploit the Bananna Slugs for non-ethical purposes, PETA probably won't get too involved in this discussion.  

[bgbacker]

Hmmm... maybe UW-Eau Claire's nickname isn't so stupid after all. At least, they haven't offended any "Blugolds," that I know of.

Our college nickname was the "Garnet." It's also difficult to offend a rock!!

[BoBo]

It's also difficult to offend a rock!!

...unless your a tightly-wound, high-strung geologist. 
[no offense intended to anyone falling into that category]

They're not offended down in WW where they like to "pound the rock." 

But it's easy to be offended, especially if your name is Chris Rock!

[OshDude]

I'll chime in with the dissenting voice, I guess. To debunk one of the arguments for it, using a native mascot is not "honoring" a race. Why do I think that way? Because that is what many natives say.

Is that a hypersensitive stance? Who am I to say? But I'll take them at their word.

I know I may never change your minds on the subject, and I know this may not be the easiest crowd to try to win over, anyway. This board is about football, so I don't want to get too far away from that.

But I felt strongly enough about what some of you posted to responded.

Just a quick anecdote: I, too, am white and attended a school with an "Indian" mascot. I, too, wondered what the fuss was all about. Then, I discovered that the "Indian" mascot of my Wisconsin school bore the head dress of the Sioux Nation (I think. I know it wasn't a Wisconsin-based tribe, anyway). It went downhill from there. It turned out there was no redeeming quality to that former "Indian" mascot. The only thing going for it was what alums were calling "tradition." That's the same thing the natives are trying to reclaim as their own.

My school's situation could be unique, but I am certain that my school made the right decision.

I won't waste your time in laying out all my views on the subject. There are football games and players to post about. However, there is a Wisconsin-based Web site that sums up nicely how I and many others feel about the subject.

Let the negative karma rain!

http://www.indianmascots.com/